Lack of athleticism

[AZOrange]

Over the last 10-15 years is astounding. Our guards are slow and plodding and our forwards and center cannot hang. Q is fine. But my god if your guards are going to play that way you have no chance.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I feel like we are trying to replicate the golden state style of chucking 3’s except we can’t shoot

 

[Alsacs]

We don’t have the personnel to play exclusive 2-3 zone but it doesn’t matter.

None of the assistant coaches can stand up to JB to get him to listen.

This team has some talent it’s just a team coached poorly.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Athleticism isn’t everything as we’ve seen plenty of times. Have had many athletes with poor actual fundamentals. We are focusing on the lack of athleticism because we are seeing so many minutes of it and it’s exacerbated when the production isn’t there.

Production is key.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I get what the OP is trying to say, but exaggeration never helps an argument lol 10-15 years.

 

[Sherman20]

Over the last 10-15 years is astounding. Our guards are slow and plodding and our forwards and center cannot hang. Q is fine. But my god if your guards are going to play that way you have no chance.

Fran Franscilla has remarked on the lack of athleticism the past couple years (especially last season) when he’s broadcast our games. He was trying to be nice but was basically saying it was sad and shocking to see a Syracuse team with so little athleticism outside a couple of players like Elijah. I think JB and the staff overcompensated by emphasizing shooting in recruiting (because of how the game had changed) to the detriment of our storied and historic athleticism. We went too far in the other direction, especially with Girard and Boeheim. It kills the defense. One of them at the top of the zone hurts, two is a killer. Especially if you’re not actually running a rotation of 3 guards. Kadary is the best defender at the top but he seems to have regressed in terms of offensive impact the past few games. He needs to be driving the ball more and either finding the open man or attacking the rim. But frankly we don’t need Kadary’s offense. We need his defense. That’s where we are terrible.

 

[AZOrange]

I get what the OP is trying to say, but exaggeration never helps an argument lol 10-15 years.

I mean Wes Johnson and company were 10 plus years ago...Carmelo nearing 20...it’s been a progressive decline. 8 guys to 5 to a couple to 1.

 

[syrBossHogg]

I get what the OP is trying to say, but exaggeration never helps an argument lol 10-15 years.

Was gonna say that lol and I mean I don't doubt even the 80s/90s Cuse teams would look a bit stacked compared to 2008-13, but our talent for the past 5 years has not been good enough

 

[AZOrange]

Athleticism isn’t everything as we’ve seen plenty of times. Have had many athletes with poor actual fundamentals. We are focusing on the lack of athleticism because we are seeing so many minutes of it and it’s exacerbated when the production isn’t there.

Production is key.

Yeah but this team would automatically be better if they could move, jump, etc. it’s doubly troubling that this is about as fundamentally bad a team as I’ve seen here

 

[AZOrange]

Was gonna say that lol and I mean I don't doubt even the 80s/90s Cuse teams would look a bit stacked compared to 2008-13, but our talent for the past 5 years has not been good enough

How long ago was 2008? It’s been getting progressively worse.

 

[AZOrange]

I feel like we are trying to replicate the golden state style of chucking 3’s except we can’t shoot

Which is stunning actually. Is Buddy really a worse shooter than the last two years? Or is the coaching and style we play not a fit?

 

[Cusefan0307]

I mean Wes Johnson and company were 10 plus years ago...Carmelo nearing 20...it’s been a progressive decline. 8 guys to 5 to a couple to 1.

lol we started MCW/Fair/Southerland/Triche/ Christmas since with grant off the bench. I get what you’re saying, but it’s an exaggeration and hurts these arguments.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Which is stunning actually. Is Buddy really a worse shooter than the last two years? Or is the coaching and style we play not a fit?

I mean the answer is fairly simple. We do nothing to help him get good looks so he shoots under duress way too much.

 

[syrBossHogg]

How long ago was 2008? It’s been getting progressively worse.

Like Cusefan0307 said we've had some talented players come through after then. Even guys like Lydon, Battle, Hughes, Quincy are good college players but we rely on them to be our star players now.

 

[AZOrange]

lol we started MCW/Fair/Southerland/Triche/ Christmas since with grant off the bench. I get what you’re saying, but it’s an exaggeration and hurts these arguments.

I’m obviously talking about progressive decline. You can find an anomaly in any range but this has been going on for some time. Especially at the guard position. I’m not sure Joe and Buddy are starters at any P5 school.

 

[AZOrange]

Like Cusefan0307 said we've had some talented players come through after then. Even guys like Lydon, Battle, Hughes, Quincy are good college players but we rely on them to be our star players now.

Never said there weren’t talented guys here.

 

[jdubs30]

It seems like every year we have 1-2 players who look like they belong. Eli, Q, Tyus, Brissett, etc. but I’d say the 2016 F4 team was plenty athletic with G, Mali, Lydon, Robey ... we just lacked size

 

[AZOrange]

I mean the answer is fairly simple. We do nothing to help him get good looks so he shoots under duress way too much.

Really? Go back and watch how many good looks he misses. He misses because he’s not a 40 mpg player and should be stationed in corner not the first guy popping out for whatever this offense apparently is.

 

[jdubs30]

I’m obviously talking about progressive decline. You can find an anomaly in any range but this has been going on for some time. Especially at the guard position. I’m not sure Joe and Buddy are starters at any P5 school.

I do think Buddy would start at several P5 programs ... but his running mate needs to be someone like Sharife Cooper, etc

 

[007]

Yeah but this team would automatically be better if they could move, jump, etc. it’s doubly troubling that this is about as fundamentally bad a team as I’ve seen here

This is especially true at the D end of the floor. Athleticism aside, they are fundamentally poor at positioning, rotations, boxing out (almost never), close outs, playing passing lanes (but they have their moments), identifying and staying with shooters, challenging shots with the correct hand, and overall game awareness.

There is enough offensive talent to be effective. They are much better at ball moment this year. But the scheme is out of whack. Let's get a lot of shots up and hope we make enough of 'em isn't going to cut it.

 

[AZOrange]

It seems like every year we have 1-2 players who look like they belong. Eli, Q, Tyus, Brissett, etc. but I’d say the 2016 F4 team was plenty athletic with G, Mali, Lydon, Robey ... we just lacked size

1-2 sure...

 

[Alsacs]

I mean the answer is fairly simple. We do nothing to help him get good looks so he shoots under duress way too much.

I have said Buddy is Luke Hancock or Jimmy Baron not Reggie Miller.

That is on the HC.
If he used Buddy as a weapon not a lead offense matchup then he would be more effective.
If defenses have to make him a guy of focus he will struggle.
That is roster management.
Flip 2014 Cooney with Buddy and we could have cut down the nets that year.

 

[jdubs30]

1-2 sure...

Yep I agree with you. Benny will be that guy next year.

 

[AZOrange]

This is especially true at the D end of the floor. Athleticism aside, they are fundamentally poor at positioning, rotations, boxing out (almost never), close outs, playing passing lanes (but they have their moments), identifying and staying with shooters, challenging shots with the correct hand, and overall game awareness.

There is enough offensive talent to be effective. They are much better at ball moment this year. But the scheme is out of whack. Let's get a lot of shots up and hope we make enough of 'em isn't going to cut it.

Even offensively...the driving dribbling and passing is generally below average. When any team flashes a double team it’s horrendous

 

[Cusefan0307]

Really? Go back and watch how many good looks he misses. He misses because he’s not a 40 mpg player and should be stationed in corner not the first guy popping out for whatever this offense apparently is.

Those even out as the season goes on. No? JB has always been bad at scheming offense out of shooters as long as I can remember.