Legacy over Money

[djcon57]

i think fans here generally want our guys to be ready to succeed when they go. Malachi, Lydon are playing minor league ball. To want their games to be more refined for their opportunities isn't necessarily selfish from a fan's point of view.

You are assuming staying means their games will be more refined for the NBA even though there’s nothing that supports that claim in either direction when it comes to Syracuse players

 

[Cheriehoop]

Yup. I bet NO ONE here has gone up to commencement at SU to cheernon a player getting his diploma.

Huh? Rak got a great cheer from fans for graduating in 3.5 years if you think that's relevant. I don't see why hoping players are successful beyond their years at SU whether in the short time while still playing basketball after leaving SU but also 20 years afterwards, is considered a bad selfish thing. Players visiting the dome even decades after leaving get huge cheers and recognition from SU fans not for selfish - 'what can you do for me reasons' either.

 

[pfister1]

The overwhelming majority of the time, a college basketball fan vouching for a player to stay and earn his degree is just a thinly veiled disguise for “I’m not done having you entertain me for free yet.”

The fact that their motivation lies in self-interest doesn't change the fact that they are right. The overwhelming majority of people (including former athletes) are going to have an easier path in life with that piece of paper than without it.

 

[pfister1]

It's too bad. I thought this post was going to go in a different direction than the typical "he's not ready" debate. Tyus, next season, might be the perfect argument for where I thought this was headed, but I think the thread went astray.

He is likely going to be faced with the decision of leaving with a year of eligibility remaining to enter the fray of fighting for a paid position somewhere that he could just as easily have after his senior year. Meaning he probably is not going to get drafted in the first round given what he is and that probably isn't going to change whether he goes after this year or stays for a senior year.

The alternative for him is to stay a fourth year at SU and take a crack at taking his SU legacy to the next level. Go from being an outstanding SU player, to putting his Jersey in the rafters, taking a run at being the all time program leader in points scored and having a crack at going from a top 50/100 guy all time to a top 10 in program history. Kind of what John Wallace's senior year cemented for him. Some of what comes out of that is simple pride. Being able to tell the kids and grandkids and friends that I did that! There is also a minor argument for enhanced celebrity and such. I think there is probably an decent argument that a guy like Moten gets more opportunities based on his legacy than Dave Johnson does.

This is not a quantifiable dollars decision. If he is a firm first rounder than I don't think he shoulld come back, I am saying this is an interesting decision if he is a second rounder and not likely to do any better than G League or International opportunities, which he can also have after his final year.

 

[Bayside44]

You are assuming staying means their games will be more refined for the NBA even though there’s nothing that supports that claim in either direction when it comes to Syracuse players

A year of maturity and a year closer to a degree isn't an assumption.

Maybe they would've been churn either way, no way to fully know.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

i think fans here generally want our guys to be ready to succeed when they go. Malachi, Lydon are playing minor league ball. To want their games to be more refined for their opportunities isn't necessarily selfish from a fan's point of view.

Nonsense.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

It's too bad. I thought this post was going to go in a different direction than the typical "he's not ready" debate. Tyus, next season, might be the perfect argument for where I thought this was headed, but I think the thread went astray.

He is likely going to be faced with the decision of leaving with a year of eligibility remaining to enter the fray of fighting for a paid position somewhere that he could just as easily have after his senior year. Meaning he probably is not going to get drafted in the first round given what he is and that probably isn't going to change whether he goes after this year or stays for a senior year.

The alternative for him is to stay a fourth year at SU and take a crack at taking his SU legacy to the next level. Go from being an outstanding SU player, to putting his Jersey in the rafters, taking a run at being the all time program leader in points scored and having a crack at going from a top 50/100 guy all time to a top 10 in program history. Kind of what John Wallace's senior year cemented for him. Some of what comes out of that is simple pride. Being able to tell the kids and grandkids and friends that I did that! There is also a minor argument for enhanced celebrity and such. I think there is probably an decent argument that a guy like Moten gets more opportunities based on his legacy than Dave Johnson does.

This is not a quantifiable dollars decision. If he is a firm first rounder than I don't think he shoulld come back, I am saying this is an interesting decision if he is a second rounder and not likely to do any better than G League or International opportunities, which he can also have after his final year.

Opportunity costs

 

[Bayside44]

Nonsense.

So you’re saying most here are selfish jerks? Merry Christmas to you too!

 

[orangecuse]

When you are talking 220 million vs. 167 million it’s okay to say legacy over money as you are getting more money than your grandkids will ever need.

When you talking about kids in college getting 0 vs. getting a guaranteed contract it’s not the same analogy.

I never blame a kid for striking while the iron is hot.

Dead on post, though I may have substituted 'okay to say' with 'so incredibly easy.'

On a somewhat related note, same goes for Run Around Sue Lebron. Now that his net worth is where it is, he can yap his big trap and make comments like "slave mentality," etc. He never would've said this back in his earlier days when he needed the likes of those 'slave' type folks in order for him to build his brand/empire enabling him to prosper.

 

[UnknownOrange]

If Moten was drafted in the 2nd round at pick 36 (as he was in his era) he would be looking at a 2-6 million dollar deal and possibly have 2 of the 4 years of the contract be guaranteed. That is today's NBA.

 

[tbonezone]

$$$ comes and goes. but as frankie once sang " they can't take that away from me "

(lyrics courtesy of the gershwins)

 

[Horn88]

A year of maturity and a year closer to a degree isn't an assumption.

Maybe they would've been churn either way, no way to fully know.

Just like there's no way to fully know if their draft stock would take a major hit if they stayed another year. Easy to play the what if game with someone else's one chance to get life changing money for their family.

 

[Newhouser]

I’m all for letting kids pick their future. But some make good and some make bad decisions. My hot take (and I’m on the record for it) is only time can tell whether it was good or bad. And even then there are variables. A rational person could argue Johnny Flynn should have stayed in hindsight. He wouldn’t have suffered THAT career ending injury. He was the #6 pick.

That being said - Tyus came back at least in part because of graduation/credits. You’re really saying a fan can’t use that as an example?

And you’re using an accusational slave owner tone to do it. I’m sorry it’s incredibly insulting to me who has probably spent $50,000 or more on Syracuse sports related costs in my life.

“I’m not done having you entertain me for free yet”

Tyus came back because he wasn't going to get drafted.

 

[CusefanATL]

Tyus came back because he wasn't going to get drafted.

that is absolutely revisionist history. can you point to 1 article that said he wouldnt be drafted?

 

[Horn88]

that is absolutely revisionist history. can you point to 1 article that said he wouldnt be drafted?

Tyus had a lingering foot injury that severely hampered his ability to make a positive impression in predraft workouts. He was planning on declaring but pretty much had no choice after he couldn't show as well as he'd like to in workouts to help him boost his draft stock.

Don't know if there's an article out there that states that but I know that to be true.

 

[CusefanATL]

Tyus had a lingering foot injury that severaly hampered his ability to make a positive impression in predraft workouts. He didn't want to come back but pretty much had no choice after he couldn't show as well as he'd like to in workouts to help him boost his draft stock.

Don't know if there's an article out there that states that but I know that to be true.

he never fell out of the 2nd round in any (or many) mock that i saw or remember. the perception was fringe first rounder. you must be forgetting the threads of the days, hours, minutes, and seconds leading up to the unofficial leak of the return and then the panic that he was still going to nba and then the official announcement im pretty sure after the deadline or with minutes to spare. it was an absolute shocker he returned. anything other than that is revisionist history. and its all archived on this very board.

"The feedback he was getting was that he would be drafted, but not in the position where he wanted to be,'' Battle's father, Gary, said late Wednesday night just minutes after Battle submitted his paperwork to the NBA's office.

 

[Horn88]

he never fell out of the 2nd round in any mock that i saw. the perception was fringe first rounder. you must be forgetting the threads of the days, hours, minutes, and seconds leading up to the unofficial leak of the return and then the panic that he was still going to nba and then the official announcement im pretty sure after the deadline or with minutes to spare. it was an absolute shocker he returned. anything other than that is revisionist history. and its all archived on this very board.

"The feedback he was getting was that he would be drafted, but not in the position where he wanted to be,'' Battle's father, Gary, said late Wednesday night just minutes after Battle submitted his paperwork to the NBA's office.

I'm not using what was or wasn't posted on the board or a media article as my source.

Your post doesn't really refute anything I said either. If anything the fact it went down to the final hour shows how torn he was and was fighting the disappointment in the role his injury played. Tyus didn't want to leave to be a mid-back end 2nd rounder, not many guys do unless they/their family really need a paycheck whether it be in the U.S. or abroad. Which is something many on here should remember before we rip any players decisions in the future.

 

[Bayside44]

Just like there's no way to fully know if their draft stock would take a major hit if they stayed another year. Easy to play the what if game with someone else's one chance to get life changing money for their family.

In basketball terms if their stock gets worse they weren’t going to make it anyway.

 

[CusefanATL]

I'm not using what was or wasn't posted on the board or a media article as my source.

Your post doesn't really refute anything I said either. If anything the fact it went down to the final hour shows how torn he was and was fighting the disappointment in the role his injury played. Tyus didn't want to leave to be a mid-back end 2nd rounder, not many guys do unless they/their family really need a paycheck whether it be in the U.S. or abroad. Which is something many on here should remember before we rip any players decisions in the future.

The only thing I was and am refuting is that he came back because he wasn’t going to be drafted. Sorry for misunderstanding. I thought that was assumed.

On a separate note, he had already declared for the draft. He didn’t exactly have to announce he was staying the draft if that’s what he decided to do. There was no paperwork to stay in the draft, only to not go to draft.

And he knew before. He was playing pick up and joked about it after.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

So you’re saying most here are selfish jerks? Merry Christmas to you too!

I think when it comes to expressing a desire that kids stay in school rather than go pro, it is always from a selfish view. That's what fans do. If we really cared about Eric Dungy, we all would have hoped he took didn't suit up again for fear of suffering additional concussions. Instead we all admired his grit.
The team doctor gets blasted on here from fans who are irate that in the doctor's opinion, it is medically too dangerous for a kid to continue to play football. The guy is regular called a quack, or worse.
No one here cares about a kid as a kid, because no one here has a personal relationship with then player (visiting parents and perhaps CTO aside).
I had a personal relationship with a player at SU, and because some deemed him "not good enough" he was pilloried and villified on this site by "fans" who insist they only have the best interest of the player at heart. BS.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

$$$ comes and goes. but as frankie once sang " they can't take that away from me "

(lyrics courtesy of the gershwins)

Really? Ask JB

 

[Bayside44]

I think when it comes to expressing a desire that kids stay in school rather than go pro, it is always from a selfish view. That's what fans do. If we really cared about Eric Dungy, we all would have hoped he took didn't suit up again for fear of suffering additional concussions. Instead we all admired his grit.
The team doctor gets blasted on here from fans who are irate that in the doctor's opinion, it is medically too dangerous for a kid to continue to play football. The guy is regular called a quack, or worse.
No one here cares about a kid as a kid, because no one here has a personal relationship with then player (visiting parents and perhaps CTO aside).
I had a personal relationship with a player at SU, and because some deemed him "not good enough" he was pilloried and villified on this site by "fans" who insist they only have the best interest of the player at heart. BS.[/

The football stuff is completely different that hoops. And plenty of people here for football sided with caution for a players health

 

[Cheriehoop]

I think when it comes to expressing a desire that kids stay in school rather than go pro, it is always from a selfish view. That's what fans do. If we really cared about Eric Dungy, we all would have hoped he took didn't suit up again for fear of suffering additional concussions. Instead we all admired his grit.
The team doctor gets blasted on here from fans who are irate that in the doctor's opinion, it is medically too dangerous for a kid to continue to play football. The guy is regular called a quack, or worse.
No one here cares about a kid as a kid, because no one here has a personal relationship with then player (visiting parents and perhaps CTO aside).
I had a personal relationship with a player at SU, and because some deemed him "not good enough" he was pilloried and villified on this site by "fans" who insist they only have the best interest of the player at heart. BS.

I don't think it's fair nor true to stereotype all fans as not caring about the players at all. It's just the loudest, most opinionated, 'I'm getting the last word in and will repeat myself endlessly if you don't agree' type of critical poster that you are talking about. I agree that there are too many of them, but I also call BS on your blanket condemnation of fan's interest in players future and well being though. Remember it was a parent who led the attacks upon the doctor which sadly many posters just went ballistic over.

It is more difficult when players leave so early to feel as close an association or connection vs the 3 or 4 year player who we've gotten to watch grow over time. I know I'm far from alone in caring how each and every one of these kids' lives (even those who transfer) turn out hoping they succeed in life after their playing days. (personally I enjoy seeing and speaking to some who have returned to even work in Syracuse after their playing days which is also a testament that people do care) As for CTO if course I agree.

 

[Horn88]

In basketball terms if their stock gets worse they weren’t going to make it anyway.

Which is all the more reason to get paid while you can instead of sticking around so a few fans have a better team to root for the next winter. Because if it doesn't work out for them you're able to just shrug your shoulders and forget about it while you tell the next kid he should stay but meanwhile the player and his family just lost their chance at millions.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Yeah that seems more like an argument to get paid while you can.