Let’s Talk About the 2022 Syracuse Offense | Page 7 | Syracusefan.com

Let’s Talk About the 2022 Syracuse Offense

money3189 said:
I've watched TD's games over and over. He was a victim of a bad line and he was also a victim of his own head. You have to look beyond the obvious when you evaluate TD's experience at Cuse.
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This could be seen as far back as his senior year in high school. I loved how he played for SU, but he always was prone to being inside his own head especially when he didn't have the time to find the open WR. He also struggled with making passes before a WR broke open.

I think Tommy would have been a good to very good quarterback if he had a top-notch pass blocking OL coupled with a few receivers who could get open on their own. Without that, he made mistakes and took hits. The more hits he took, the more he got inside his own head.

His senior year in high school was really rough for these same reasons. He looked phenomenal always in 7 on 7's because he has such a pure arm and his WRs had time to get open.

A pocket passer without a great feel for the rush will very rarely work here.
 
TheCusian said:
Yeah, I’m ok with this explanation. It probably comes down to the semantics of “figured out” which is kind of what you just described, IMO. I agree with you that the next step would have been a counter from the offense. And so on and so on.

One thing I’m confident of is that when you’re adjusting the system you run - having a good QB and OL is helpful. We tried to evolve with a QB who wasn’t good in some key areas at the same time our OL (injuries, recruiting, coaching) we really struggled. Installing changes in the middle of a pandemic was not helpful either.

As all of things try to get boiled down to simple things, it’s usually a lot of things all compounding.
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Well said
 
A Clockwork Orange said:
This could be seen as far back as his senior year in high school. I loved how he played for SU, but he always was prone to being inside his own head especially when he didn't have the time to find the open WR. He also struggled with making passes before a WR broke open.

I think Tommy would have been a good to very good quarterback if he had a top-notch pass blocking OL coupled with a few receivers who could get open on their own. Without that, he made mistakes and took hits. The more hits he took, the more he got inside his own head.

His senior year in high school was really rough for these same reasons. He looked phenomenal always in 7 on 7's because he has such a pure arm and his WRs had time to get open.

A pocket passer without a great feel for the rush will very rarely work here.
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Makes sense
 
All4SU said:
I would think that the new offense would still be a run first offense. But not as much, and with a more effective passing attack.
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I hope so. But it's been 7 years since Anae was at BYU, with the more balanced attack. That's a long time ago, in football years.
 
This isn't going to be the greatest insight in the history of this board but if you can't get it blocked no offense can do a darn thing. Back in the day of our great running backs we also had great offensive lines. Until we can get linemen who will play on Sundays we'll be a mediocrity. I don't care who the coach is.
 
goofnoff said:
This isn't going to be the greatest insight in the history of this board but if you can't get it blocked no offense can do a darn thing. Back in the day of our great running backs we also had great offensive lines. Until we can get linemen who will play on Sundays we'll be a mediocrity. I don't care who the coach is.
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Yes, and how do you evaluate what we have in the OL? We certainly have experience and ACC size and better depth than we have had in many seasons. Bergeron is a play on Sunday talent - not a day 1 or 2 pick perhaps but should get drafted. Dakota Davis is very good when healthy. Ellis stepped in to start games as a true frosh and hold his own. If he can keep his weight under control he should be very good. Maybe we need one transfer but there are several younger linemen on the roster who can push Ilaoa and Vetterello.
 
SoBristol said:
Yes, and how do you evaluate what we have in the OL? We certainly have experience and ACC size and better depth than we have had in many seasons. Bergeron is a play on Sunday talent - not a day 1 or 2 pick perhaps but should get drafted. Dakota Davis is very good when healthy. Ellis stepped in to start games as a true frosh and hold his own. If he can keep his weight under control he should be very good. Maybe we need one transfer but there are several younger linemen on the roster who can push Ilaoa and Vetterello.
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On paper, there's enough to work with to have a pretty good O-Line, barring 2 or 3 injuries. My only question will be how well Anae & Beck mesh with what Mike Schmidt taught them last season.
 
SoBristol said:
Yes, and how do you evaluate what we have in the OL? We certainly have experience and ACC size and better depth than we have had in many seasons. Bergeron is a play on Sunday talent - not a day 1 or 2 pick perhaps but should get drafted. Dakota Davis is very good when healthy. Ellis stepped in to start games as a true frosh and hold his own. If he can keep his weight under control he should be very good. Maybe we need one transfer but there are several younger linemen on the roster who can push Ilaoa and Vetterel
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I don't have films to evaluate each lineman individually. Saying we have ACC size is damning with faint praise. What I saw last season was a line couldn't get anything blocked. That put the defense on the field way too much defending bad field position.
 
goofnoff said:
I don't have films to evaluate each lineman individually. Saying we have ACC size is damning with faint praise. What I saw last season was a line couldn't get anything blocked. That put the defense on the field way too much defending bad field position.
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Dude, with all due respect, we had one of the top running games in the country last year, which is kind of remarkable considering that (1) we changed QBs 1/3 of the way through the season, (2) everyone KNEW we were going to run, and they still got it done. This group returns something like 8 of last year's 9 guys who played. We should have an upper half offensive line this year, and with the new coaches, this could potentially be a pretty good offense.

Two years ago (the 1 win season forever known as "Disaster Year"), we averaged 17 points a game and gave up 33. The offense improved from nearly worst in the country to a lower-middle of the pack offense, generating 25 points a game and giving up 26 - about what you'd expect for a roughly .500 team.

BIg improvement on both sides of the ball last year. Out of about 8 position groups this year, we only have a couple that have serious questions. That bodes very well. The fewer questions, the more likely you are to have a pretty good year.

Our offense was so one-sided last year, that if we can approach some balance, where defenses have to defend the whole field against us, and if they can coach up a couple WRs, I could see this team scoring 30+ points this year. I worry about how small the defensive line is. The LBs and Secondary and kicking teams are all rock solid.

Our success this year is going to come down to our run defense being adequate, the new coaching concepts not being too complicated or dissimilar to what our players are used to doing, and a reliable slot receiver, deep threat and TE finding their way into the offense.
 
IthacaMatt said:
Dude, with all due respect, we had one of the top running games in the country last year, which is kind of remarkable considering that (1) we changed QBs 1/3 of the way through the season, (2) everyone KNEW we were going to run, and they still got it done. This group returns something like 8 of last year's 9 guys who played. We should have an upper half offensive line this year, and with the new coaches, this could potentially be a pretty good offense.

Two years ago (the 1 win season forever known as "Disaster Year"), we averaged 17 points a game and gave up 33. The offense improved from nearly worst in the country to a lower-middle of the pack offense, generating 25 points a game and giving up 26 - about what you'd expect for a roughly .500 team.

BIg improvement on both sides of the ball last year. Out of about 8 position groups this year, we only have a couple that have serious questions. That bodes very well. The fewer questions, the more likely you are to have a pretty good year.

Our offense was so one-sided last year, that if we can approach some balance, where defenses have to defend the whole field against us, and if they can coach up a couple WRs, I could see this team scoring 30+ points this year. I worry about how small the defensive line is. The LBs and Secondary and kicking teams are all rock solid.

Our success this year is going to come down to our run defense being adequate, the new coaching concepts not being too complicated or dissimilar to what our players are used to doing, and a reliable slot receiver, deep threat and TE finding their way into the offense.
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We were 5-7 with three wins against mid-majors. We have one of the best running backs we've ever had, and I've seen 'em all since Jimmy Brown. I can't imagine what he could do with a real line. Losing the opening day starter resulted in an improvement at QB. At least the back up could run a little which was good considering the blocking.
 
goofnoff said:
We were 5-7 with three wins against mid-majors. We have one of the best running backs we've ever had, and I've seen 'em all since Jimmy Brown. I can't imagine what he could do with a real line. Losing the opening day starter resulted in an improvement at QB. At least the back up could run a little which was good considering the blocking.
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Last year was the first year with a new OL coach. The game plan changed from passing based to running based in game 4. The entire spring and pre-season camp, DeVito got 3/4 of the snaps, and we played a mostly different offense.

It wasn't just Sean Tucker gaining all those yards, y'know. And the last two games, when we were missing 2 or 3 starters on the line (including our blocking FB/TE who got hurt), he didn't still go out and get 200 yards, did he? Credit where credit is due. Our OL coach was not a card shuffling joke. He did a terrific job.
 
goofnoff said:
We were 5-7 with three wins against mid-majors. We have one of the best running backs we've ever had, and I've seen 'em all since Jimmy Brown. I can't imagine what he could do with a real line. Losing the opening day starter resulted in an improvement at QB. At least the back up could run a little which was good considering the blocking.
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You should find time to re watch games. They are on youtube. They were pretty good at run blocking. I would say above average. Very good at getting to second level on their inside/outside zone concepts. It wasn't a lot of sophisticated scheming either. They simplified it and got better at the fundamentals. Don't forget there were a few games they should have won. They didn't lose them because of run blocking.
 
goofnoff said:
I don't have films to evaluate each lineman individually. Saying we have ACC size is damning with faint praise. What I saw last season was a line couldn't get anything blocked. That put the defense on the field way too much defending bad field position.
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If you have seen all our RBs since Jim Brown (same for me) you have also seen our OLs over the years. So, make the comparisons. When I make the comparisons vs our other OLs in the past decade (talent, returning experience, size etc), this unit for 2022 is right up there with our better groups. The “faint praise” of having ACC size is something that has not been the case for our lines in other seasons. In my experience, there have been few SU seasons when we have returned as many OL starters as we have this season, and lost so little — typically those seasons have been good (2012 and 2018).
 
SoBristol said:
If you have seen all our RBs since Jim Brown (same for me) you have also seen our OLs over the years. So, make the comparisons. When I make the comparisons vs our other OLs in the past decade (talent, returning experience, size etc), this unit for 2022 is right up there with our better groups. The “faint praise” of having ACC size is something that has not been the case for our lines in other seasons. In my experience, there have been few SU seasons when we have returned as many OL starters as we have this season, and lost so little — typically those seasons have been good (2012 and 2018).
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If you can consistently knock the opposing team off the line of scrimmage, you will win most games. Unless you are careless with the football.
 
TheCusian said:
. I’ll also happily admit when I’m wrong.
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It just might take you years….. like clinging to Shafers leg as a great coach as he was leaving and TD as an NFL caliber QB. But you’ll spend years first doubling down over and over first lol.
 
SWC75 said:
I wonder if our 2022 offense will resemble our 2012 offense.

www.sports-reference.com

2012 Syracuse Orange Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

2012 Syracuse Orange Stats
www.sports-reference.com www.sports-reference.com
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I think that Shrader is going to run for more yards than Nassib did. Indeed, we're hoping that he puts up the numbers that Prince Tyson-Gulley did on that team (700-800 yards) and that Number 34 puts up another 1000+ yard season, like Jerome Smith did that year.

Not a bad comp, SWC. I'd be pretty happy with an 8-5 year.
 
goofnoff said:
This isn't going to be the greatest insight in the history of this board but if you can't get it blocked no offense can do a darn thing. Back in the day of our great running backs we also had great offensive lines. Until we can get linemen who will play on Sundays we'll be a mediocrity. I don't care who the coach is.
Expand...
Who are these great NFL linemen you speak of?
 
A Clockwork Orange said:
This could be seen as far back as his senior year in high school. I loved how he played for SU, but he always was prone to being inside his own head especially when he didn't have the time to find the open WR. He also struggled with making passes before a WR broke open.

I think Tommy would have been a good to very good quarterback if he had a top-notch pass blocking OL coupled with a few receivers who could get open on their own. Without that, he made mistakes and took hits. The more hits he took, the more he got inside his own head.

His senior year in high school was really rough for these same reasons. He looked phenomenal always in 7 on 7's because he has such a pure arm and his WRs had time to get open.

A pocket passer without a great feel for the rush will very rarely work here.
Expand...
Pretty much every QB struggles when they don't have time to find an open receiver - that is pretty much a universal concept in FB; and TD had less time than almost any QB I have seen.

Besides the very poor OL play, TD also had to deal with: no QB coach?, a HS coach as QB coach?, a new OC trying to install his offense in the COVID year - a prefect storm for disaster, which it was for him, the running game, and the offense in general. And then there is the receiver issue, apparently most posters think our receivers were not very good, except for all those secondary and tretiary receivers who were "wide open" but poor TD just couldn't get the ball to them because...of whatever.

I'll be very interested to see how TD does at ILL.
 
Who? TD? Doesn't ring a bell.

I think maybe a kid of with that name used to play here, but didn't he quit in the middle of the season?
 
Oakland said:
Pretty much every QB struggles when they don't have time to find an open receiver - that is pretty much a universal concept in FB; and TD had less time than almost any QB I have seen.

Besides the very poor OL play, TD also had to deal with: no QB coach?, a HS coach as QB coach?, a new OC trying to install his offense in the COVID year - a prefect storm for disaster, which it was for him, the running game, and the offense in general. And then there is the receiver issue, apparently most posters think our receivers were not very good, except for all those secondary and tretiary receivers who were "wide open" but poor TD just couldn't get the ball to them because...of whatever.

I'll be very interested to see how TD does at ILL.
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I agree. He had moments where it was pretty much a '1' count and he was being chased. I also don't think he had superior pocket awareness, which doesn't help. When you're running for your life on every play though that changes your mental makeup a lot.

He certainly wasn't helped here, and I don't blame the coaches for switching it up to a running QB. I think that maximized what we had last year. TD wasn't a fit because the coaching staff never surrounded him with what he needed to be successful. But I think what he needs to be successful is something Syracuse hasn't provided QBs with in decades. This is why typically our best years have been with QBs that can threaten you with the run as well.

The one or two years we've done well with a pocket passer is when we had a former OL and OL coach as the head coach.
 
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