Lets all get on the same page about what's happening

[pearl31]

Everyone keeps saying that many get paid.

If that's the case, how come all of this is officially coming out now? If all these kids have gotten benefits, why don't you always hear about it?

it wasn't dropped into the feds' lap til now

 

[Orangepace]

I think two major reasons: everyone is in on it, and it's a pretty complicated system. Uncovering massive fraud is hard and time consuming. Need someone to show you the bodies...

 

[llandz]

It is hard to compare a regular student working to earn money and an athlete. Don't forget that the athlete probably puts in an additional 4-6 hours a day in order to play their sport for the university. Between practice and training, travel and game time. It is very hard to hold down a job, be an athlete and a student. They do work. They work as an athlete and pretty much as an entertainer, as they entertain large crowds of people on a regular basis. They contribute to large amounts of money being made by said universities. I like the idea that at the very least they can sell merchandise in their name. I think you need to give them some extra pay for some very basics that are not covered, and for the ability to have the same fun that other students have. You are suppose to have the same student experience, but if you can't pay to join your friends at the movie, or go to the mall for a meal that is a little better than a pizza, then you are not giving them that experience. They also do not get to go home at vacation time the same way other students do. Yes, they get an education, but they also make larger sacrifices of their time and of their bodies.
The other issue is that they are 18 years old. If you take a Lebron or Melo at 18, and let them sell merchandise in their name, there has to be some sort of system that protects them from being scammed, or cheated. That could also be a concern with doing this. This may be a reason for an additional stipend instead. I don't think this stops the other problem though. The vultures will still circle and take advantage of

 

[Toga]

If big-time payments are so prevalent, why did SU get nailed because a couple players were paid peanuts to work at a YMCA in Utica?

Self reporting

 

[HakAttack]

If I we've learned anything from this...it's that Blue Chips is clearly the most accurate basketball movie ever made.

 

[SoBeCuse]

One of the best scenes! Snoop looking for a higher caliber and better cordless nail gun to board up those bodies in the vacants for Marlow Stanfield. Gold!

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

But then some rich booster or sneaker company can just pay the next great player 100k to go to their school. REAL FAIR!!! No thanks!!!

Free agency. Just like baseball.

 

[kuethstheman]

1) The fact that it took L'ville an entire day to fire Jurich and Pitino is insane. I'm not even saying that either or both are guilty, per se (even though I believe they are). But to have so many issues at one program that supposedly still calls itself an educational institution, I would think they would have had no choice but to jump on it and act immediately saying that -- fairly or unfairly -- all the rumored issues in addition to the issues we know have already been reported put the university in a bad light and we're going in a different direction. Amazing to me that it didn't happen basically immediately.

Insane?

I realize this is the 2010's with a 24-hour news cycle so it seems like this dragged on, but 24 hours is still amazingly fast for a corporation to respond to something like this. Especially when there were 10's of millions of dollars and complex contracts to consider. If they were smart, they had at least two legal teams look at the whole mess before deciding what to do.

 

[upperdeck]

If you work for some company and do something that makes them lots of money can you market yourself off of that? In most cases no.

how much do we think these kids would make off marketing themselves? say Jackson had a great deal he could get, how much would it be worth? They sell 1-2k thousand jerseys with his name at $100 , by the time the marketing and cost of the jersey is done he might net 1-2K..

These kids have a shelf life of 1-2 yrs unless they go pro and blow up.

 

[billsin01]

Insane?

I realize this is the 2010's with a 24-hour news cycle so it seems like this dragged on, but 24 hours is still amazingly fast for a corporation to respond to something like this. Especially when there were 10's of millions of dollars and complex contracts to consider. If they were smart, they had at least two legal teams look at the whole mess before deciding what to do.

Fair enough. I think I'm thinking of it more from the PR standpoint. I would, given all the stuff that Pitino has dragged and left at L'ville's front door, think he would have been on the equivalent of a zero tolerance type setup. Maybe they don't fire him immediately but put him on leave if for no other reason than to appear concerned.

For the record, i'm not trying to judge. It is what it is in college sports but I just figured the university would have made the move to at least put him on leave the same day. But you make a good point -- man get be impossible for a university to move that fast on anything.

 

[jncuse]

It seems that many think that a player getting paid in itself is a crime. Is that really the case? Isn't the issue with these crimes more in how they got paid, and the fact that other parties got involved to also benefit, which created the conspiracy and fraud.

If School A, wanted to pay Player B, and found a direct or indirect way to pay him with no one else benefiting (i.e. shoe company, coach bribe) there is quite possibly no crime involved, I would think.

If I am wrong, please do correct me, this is a confusing legal case in many regards.

 

[DoctorBombay]

because JB is not an NCAA favorite and it gave them something to show for their 8 years of work.

And don't forget the spotlight of the Bernie Fine fiasco (F*% n Mark Schwartz), coming so soon after PSU/JoePa/Sandusky. They needed to do "something" to reassert themselves and tag, we were it.

 

[billsin01]

Insane?

I realize this is the 2010's with a 24-hour news cycle so it seems like this dragged on, but 24 hours is still amazingly fast for a corporation to respond to something like this. Especially when there were 10's of millions of dollars and complex contracts to consider. If they were smart, they had at least two legal teams look at the whole mess before deciding what to do.

I think I was expecting something more like arizona's response especially considering the issues potion has had. They responded before the end of the day:

“We were made aware of the Department of Justice’s investigation this morning and we are cooperating fully with the FBI and the U.S. Attorney’s office. Assistant coach Emanuel Richardson was immediately suspended and relieved of all duties."

 

[Newhouser]

"Basically every college basketball player is getting paid, and it has been this way since long before any of us were born."

And Football players. Probably not all. But the stars.

I graduated from Syracuse in 1964. My family did not have money, so I needed to work several jobs to pay my tuition. This would not be possible with today's tuition cost. But it was then. One of my jobs was as a part-time janitor for one of the buildings on campus. Two of us were assigned to clean the offices on one floor of the building each weeknight. Empty the trash, mop the floors, etc. I was one of the assignees and a star football player whose name you would immediately recognize was the other. He never showed up. I didn't mind. I needed the money and the job didn't really require two people. But it was an eye-opener.

That kind of stuff happens at D3 schools now.

 

[Newhouser]

I don't doubt any of this. But what does shock me is that you could have a system like this involving thousands of people (including high school kids and their families), going on for decades, with virtually nothing leaking publicly. Obviously lots of people have had many suspicions for years, and there have always been rumors, but all it would take is a few disgruntled or disillusioned people to go on the record, and an ambitious journalist, to blow the lid off it.

How long did MLB hide steroid use? NFL too? NBA still hiding it today.

 

[Newhouser]

1) Because the NCAA had actual proof in this instance.
2) It was a second offense by the same head coach.
3) The punishment ruling was based on the sum collection of a bunch of ticky-tacky things that demonstrated a pattern of "lack of institutional control".

Another important thing to point out here: It is not in the NCAA's best interest to showcase its product as being a gigantic collection of massive cheaters.

My understanding is that the NCAA often 'softens' the officially released reports to minimize overall damage to the brand (both the school in question and the overarching institution of the NCAA itself). In many instances there are other things that are uncovered that never make it into the official report. There is usually a meeting between university representatives and the NCAA prior to official release where both parties agree on what will be made public. Damage control, basically. I'm not specifically saying that SU committed other violations that were not revealed, but I know that this has happened in the past with other institutions (for example I have heard that there was stuff left out of the Calipari/Memphis reports).

I also think the NCAA is a bully and tougher on the schools that have limited resources to fight back. I think the one thing they are good at is picking on someone just under their size.

 

[retro44]

It was the YMCA in Oneida. Had it been Utica, they would've been paid in halfmoons.

best chocolate halfmoons ever...

 

[TinyManInside]

I also think the NCAA is a bully and tougher on the schools that have limited resources to fight back. I think the one thing they are good at is picking on someone just under their size.

yup, agree 100%

 

[ClamOtto]

How long did MLB hide steroid use? NFL too? NBA still hiding it today.

Right, but in MLB think about how many fewer people were involved and how much shorter it was happening. And they still got busted. That's why it seems implausible that you could have tens of thousands of people involved (all D1 players, their families, hangers-on, AAU coaches, college coaches, shoe company execs, over a period of decades) and nothing definitive came out. I'm not doubting at all that this is much more widespread than the schools and coaches the FBI just busted - of course it is. I'm just having trouble believing all players and coaches are in on it and have been for decades or more.

 

[TinyManInside]

Right, but in MLB think about how many fewer people were involved and how much shorter it was happening. And they still got busted. That's why it seems implausible that you could have tens of thousands of people involved (all D1 players, their families, hangers-on, AAU coaches, college coaches, shoe company execs, over a period of decades) and nothing definitive came out. I'm not doubting at all that this is much more widespread than the schools and coaches the FBI just busted - of course it is. I'm just having trouble believing all players and coaches are in on it and have been for decades or more.

Certainly not all players, but definitely a very sizable amount.

 

[pfister1]

It is hard to compare a regular student working to earn money and an athlete. Don't forget that the athlete probably puts in an additional 4-6 hours a day in order to play their sport for the university. Between practice and training, travel and game time. It is very hard to hold down a job, be an athlete and a student. They do work. They work as an athlete and pretty much as an entertainer, as they entertain large crowds of people on a regular basis. They contribute to large amounts of money being made by said universities. I like the idea that at the very least they can sell merchandise in their name. I think you need to give them some extra pay for some very basics that are not covered, and for the ability to have the same fun that other students have. You are suppose to have the same student experience, but if you can't pay to join your friends at the movie, or go to the mall for a meal that is a little better than a pizza, then you are not giving them that experience. They also do not get to go home at vacation time the same way other students do. Yes, they get an education, but they also make larger sacrifices of their time and of their bodies.
The other issue is that they are 18 years old. If you take a Lebron or Melo at 18, and let them sell merchandise in their name, there has to be some sort of system that protects them from being scammed, or cheated. That could also be a concern with doing this. This may be a reason for an additional stipend instead. I don't think this stops the other problem though. The vultures will still circle and take advantage of

What happened to competing for the joy of competition?

Athletes get more than just an education out of the deal. They also get extensive travel. At times we want try to make this sound like a hardship, but I think it is more perk than hardship for teenagers and twenty-somethings.

Guys that are good enough to play for pay should play professionally, not in college. And it wouldn't kill colleges and universities to take a step back from the unending pursuit of the next athletic dollar for a moment. What in the heck does big time college athletics, as its evolved today, have to do with education and academia??

 

[texascpa]

The other issue is that they are 18 years old. If you take a Lebron or Melo at 18, and let them sell merchandise in their name, there has to be some sort of system that protects them from being scammed, or cheated. That could also be a concern with doing this. This may be a reason for an additional stipend instead. I don't think this stops the other problem though. The vultures will still circle and take advantage of

As long as it's done within the NCAA and not laws. If these were non-athletes their names on contracts would be held to the same standard as any other adult.

 

[texascpa]

What happened to competing for the joy of competition?

Athletes get more than just an education out of the deal. They also get extensive travel. At times we want try to make this sound like a hardship, but I think it is more perk than hardship for teenagers and twenty-somethings.

Guys that are good enough to play for pay should play professionally, not in college. And it wouldn't kill colleges and universities to take a step back from the unending pursuit of the next athletic dollar for a moment. What in the heck does big time college athletics, as its evolved today, have to do with education and academia??

I've always wondered why they don't have degrees in the athletics field other than Sports Medicine. Why aren't there coaching degrees or sports-specific front-office degrees?

 

[Cusefan0307]

I've always wondered why they don't have degrees in the athletics field other than Sports Medicine. Why aren't there coaching degrees or sports-specific front-office degrees?

I can’t speak for other schools, but Syracuse has the David Falk school of Sports Management.

 

[reedny]

I've always wondered why they don't have degrees in the athletics field other than Sports Medicine. Why aren't there coaching degrees or sports-specific front-office degrees?

I can’t speak for other schools, but Syracuse has the David Falk school of Sports Management.

There's also a sports agency concentration available at some law schools. Many agents (at least at the professional level) are lawyers, because of the need to interpret and structure complex contracts.