LOL at triche

[CuseFaninVT]

I respectfully disagree. Triche threw it to the wrong shoulder. He threw it leading MCW into the defensive player instead of throwing it to his outside hand where he could have easily caught it and gone up with it.

It wouldn't have been the wrong shoulder if MCW had been where he could have been. He started bailing on that cut way too soon. he had Siva easily on that play if he just keeps going toward the basket.

 

[Townie72]

sit
pass
get out of the way
guard 3 point shooters

Sit? In favor of whom?
Pass? to whom (That's the root of Triche's problem)
Guard three point shooters? One of the potential weaknesses of any zone defense is that opponents are able to get more open outside shots via ball movement ... either side to side or in and out.

 

[Millhouse]

Sit? In favor of whom?
Pass? to whom (That's the root of Triche's problem)
Guard three point shooters? One of the potential weaknesses of any zone defense is that opponents are able to get more open outside shots via ball movement ... either side to side or in and out.

sit so cooney can play more than zero minutes when triche is playing this poorly
pass to fair

 

[Townie72]

as we should

shouldn't college players develop?

southerland could tried picking up a weight at some point in these 4 years. maybe he wouldn't get pushed around so much.

had townie made your post, i would've left it alone, but he always has take it up a notch

So Southerland hasn't picked up a weight in 4 years? And you accuse me of overstatement?

So SU hasn't developed many, many basketball players over the past 30+ years?

 

[Millhouse]

So Southerland hasn't picked up a weight in 4 years? And you accuse me of overstatement?

So SU hasn't developed many, many basketball players over the past 30+ years?

i never said SU hasn't developed basketball players. i think they have. i was responding to bayside saying we have constant posts about players developing.

i don't see much evidence that southerland has. i think that when players at SU get stronger, they do it on their own (good for those players)

 

[KaiserUEO]

sit so cooney can play more than zero minutes when triche is playing this poorly
pass to fair

so your problem is with JB, not triche.

im not sure i want more cooney.

i also dont see triche as a blackhole. 2-11 is bad, but it didnt seem like he was hogging.

its too bad the point isnt any good, you dont even want him to have the ball. just get it to the 3, who still managed 20 shots.

 

[Townie72]

sit so cooney can play more than zero minutes when triche is playing this poorly
pass to fair

Just a I thought ... one of our Cooney fans --- based on the theory that he couldn't do any worse than Triche.

As bad as Triche was on Saturday --- and he was awful --- JB thinks that Cooney would do worse (obviously). So do I.

Pass to Fair? I need to re-watch the game but my impression is that we did greatly increase Fair's touches in the game, probably under Boeheim's direction. His shooting attempts would seem to bear that out. Turns out that that strategy wasn't working all that well either.

Some of Triche's problems are based on his decision-making. But much of it the situation he finds himself in.

 

[Millhouse]

so your problem is with JB, not triche.

im not sure i want more cooney.

i also dont see triche as a blackhole. 2-11 is bad, but it didnt seem like he was hogging.

its too bad the point isnt any good, you dont even want him to have the ball. just get it to the 3, who still managed 20 shots.

not passing enough to fair isn't to say he's a blackhole. i keep harping on the play where he looked at fair wide open in the corner, ignored him, turned and tried to throw through 2 guys to southerlan

 

[Millhouse]

Just a I thought ... one of our Cooney fans --- based on the theory that he couldn't do any worse than Triche.

As bad as Triche was on Saturday --- and he was awful --- JB thinks that Cooney would do worse (obviously). So do I.

Pass to Fair? I need to re-watch the game but my impression is that we did greatly increase Fair's touches in the game, probably under Boeheim's direction. His shooting attempts would seem to bear that out. Turns out that that strategy wasn't working all that well either.

Some of Triche's problems are based on his decision-making. But much of it the situation he finds himself in.

i didn't say I was a fan of cooney. more exaggeration. you don't have to be very good to warrant getting triche some rest. might make triche better down the stretch.

9 for 20 is better than most triche shooting performances in conference play, especially down the stretch

 

[CuseFaninVT]

One last question here about the shot that Triche gave up from Hancock. Yeah, he definitely should have challenged that more, but why did CJ fall back from that spot when he had no Ville players behind him or in the corner? Seriously, is that what he is supposed to do when the guard comes over? Honest question here.

 

[dollarbill44]

Why bother to spend that kind of time giving a player a skill that you really don't want them using. The guy's 6'8".

This is kind of a ridiculous thing to write. Every ball player should develop their ball-handling ability because it enhances EVERY position to be able to make some basic moves with fluidity. It doesn't take that much practice. 10-15 minutes a day over a 3 month period will allow a player to develop a halfway decent crossover, spin move and between the legs. I did it this way as an 11-year old, so don't tell me it can't be done. Ralph Sampson, all 7'4" of him had good dribbling skills because as a 6'8" 8th grader his HS coach told him he was probably as tall as he was going to get so he needed to do more than just stand under the basket. I saw him dribble between the legs on a fastbreak in the NBA.

I guess my points are that it doesn't take that much work, height shouldn't matter and every player should be working on improving their ball-handling.

 

[kuethstheman]

This is kind of a ridiculous thing to write. Every ball player should develop their ball-handling ability because it enhances EVERY position to be able to make some basic moves with fluidity. It doesn't take that much practice. 10-15 minutes a day over a 3 month period will allow a player to develop a halfway decent crossover, spin move and between the legs. I did it this way as an 11-year old, so don't tell me it can't be done. Ralph Sampson, all 7'4" of him had good dribbling skills because as a 6'8" 8th grader his HS coach told him he was probably as tall as he was going to get so he needed to do more than just stand under the basket. I saw him dribble between the legs on a fastbreak in the NBA.

I guess my points are that it doesn't take that much work, height shouldn't matter and every player should be working on improving their ball-handling.

Agree, although not everyone can develop a Division 1 handle. This is something that all basketball players work on in their spare time. It would be a bad move to spend precious practice time on it.

What amazes me is JS chose those particular moments to drive into traffic for the first two times in his career.

 

[ORRange]

One last question here about the shot that Triche gave up from Hancock. Yeah, he definitely should have challenged that more, but why did CJ fall back from that spot when he had no Ville players behind him or in the corner? Seriously, is that what he is supposed to do when the guard comes over? Honest question here.

Brandon didn't even put his hands up, very hard to defend him on that lack of effort. When Brandon shows lack of effort like that play or makes a bonehead play like the halfcourt inbounds play it only lights a fuse to the criticism of him. Throw those type of plays on top of him playing poorly in the 3 game skid ( 38 min/game, 10-34 fg, 1-13 on threes, 14 TO's, 8.5 pts/game) and being a senior and the criticism is somewhat justified. I at least expect him to make intelligent plays and give his full effort.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Brandon didn't even put his hands up, very hard to defend him on that lack of effort. When Brandon shows lack of effort like that play or makes a bonehead play like the halfcourt inbounds play it only lights a fuse to the criticism of him. Throw those type of plays on top of him playing poorly in the 3 game skid ( 38 min/game, 10-34 fg, 1-13 on threes, 14 TO's, 8.5 pts/game) and being a senior and the criticism is somewhat justified. I at least expect him to make intelligent plays and give his full effort.

Just watched the play again and actually Brandon had his hands up the entire time, so let's at least try to remember the reality. He left way too much space between himself and the shooter, but he did have his hands up (actually, they were more in a position to contest a pass instead of a shot if that makes sense).

And I never tried to imply criticism not being justified, but let's leave it to what actually happened on the floor.

The halfcourt inbounds pass is still puzzling to me. Mentally tired is what he seems.

 

[ORRange]

Just watched the play again and actually Brandon had his hands up the entire time, so let's at least try to remember the reality. He left way too much space between himself and the shooter, but he did have his hands up (actually, they were more in a position to contest a pass instead of a shot if that makes sense).

And I never tried to imply criticism not being justified, but let's leave it to what actually happened on the floor.

The halfcourt inbounds pass is still puzzling to me. Mentally tired is what he seems.

My bad. I guess in reality Brandon had him covered and made it a difficult shot. You're right he looks tired.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

My bad. I guess in reality Brandon had him covered and made it a difficult shot. You're right he looks tired.

I wasn't trying to say Brandon played good defense on him, but you said he didn't even have his hands up. I was trying to relay the fact that he actually did, just wasn't close enough to alter his shot. Then again, CJ's decent defense on the same kid in the corner just a few moments later ended up in the same basket but I haven't seen much here about CJ's pretty poor defense that game. Guess if you make a few baskets on one end it means poor play on the other end is forgiven.

 

[DoctorBombay]

JB said earlier this year that the BIGS would determine how far this team goes.
If we had even a minimal threat of a low-post game, they'd be better spacing and more chances to spread the court.
BMK is what he is- good defense at best. DC2 was hurt...he'll get a pass. RAK is painfully disappointing, IMO- one of the softest players I've ever seen at SU.
Finally, Brandon Triche is the same "stuck on potential" enigma that we've watched for 4 years now. I, like others, kept hoping...and still do, that some of what we've heard for 4 years would start manifesting itself this season. I'm at about 75% in believing that he just doesn't have the make-up to be the kind of leader this team needs. His demeanor ALONE, just turns me off.
Btw- his Uncle Howard was also a "sleep-walker", but serviceable on teams that had Seikaly, Sherm, and DC. I spent many a game waiting for him to look "interested"- and fortunately, he was never the focal point of any one team.
Brandon Triche is...what he is. Whether that'll be enough to do anything worthwhile at this point, we'll find out over the next few weeks.

 

[RF2044]

JB said earlier this year that the BIGS would determine how far this team goes.
If we had even a minimal threat of a low-post game, they'd be better spacing and more chances to spread the court.
BMK is what he is- good defense at best. DC2 was hurt...he'll get a pass. RAK is painfully disappointing, IMO- one of the softest players I've ever seen at SU.
Finally, Brandon Triche is the same "stuck on potential" enigma that we've watched for 4 years now. I, like others, kept hoping...and still do, that some of what we've heard for 4 years would start manifesting itself this season. I'm at about 75% in believing that he just doesn't have the make-up to be the kind of leader this team needs. His demeanor ALONE, just turns me off.
Btw- his Uncle Howard was also a "sleep-walker", but serviceable on teams that had Seikaly, Sherm, and DC. I spent many a game waiting for him to look "interested"- and fortunately, he was never the focal point of any one team.
Brandon Triche is...what he is. Whether that'll be enough to do anything worthwhile at this point, we'll find out over the next few weeks.

I'm going to disagree with you on Uncle Howard. He was a lightly recruited player who didn't see the court for two years, almost transferred, and then became a two year starter. He had a terrific senior year, was a solid mid-range shooter, and a very good defender.

I don't dispute that he wasn't the focal point of our offense, but he was an important cog his senior year. He didn't sleep walk through anything.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I'm going to disagree with you on Uncle Howard. He was a lightly recruited player who didn't see the court for two years, almost transferred, and then became a two year starter. He had a terrific senior year, was a solid mid-range shooter, and a very good defender.

I don't dispute that he wasn't the focal point of our offense, but he was an important cog his senior year. He didn't sleep walk through anything.

I'd respectfully disagree... with your disagreement.
Yes, Uncle Howard was lightly recruited and he had the good defense and dependable 10-15 fter. That's what was good about him, he wasn't expected to do much more, and he understood and played his role to perfection.
My comment about him not looking "interested" was more about his demeanor than anything else. I go by the view that passion plays a significant role in how players perform. The least talented player on the team, if he has some "want-to", can play a major role for a winning team. Tim Duncan advocated for Avery Johnson to be his starting PG w/ the Spurs. Why? It wasn't that AJ was physically gifted or anything, it was because he knew that AJ was a great leader- and Duncan needed someone to be that kinda leader for the Spurs to win. He also recognized that that wasn't HIS personality. Duncan is a great player, but he knew his strengths and his weaknesses.
With BT, I'd always feared that his demeanor, what he showed on the court while playing, was more that of a side-kick (a Bobby Bonilla/ ARod role), as opposed to the Alpha that Bonds or Jeter are. Again, Jeter has a "quiet" personality as well, but does anyone ever doubt his passion to step up, compete, and make winning plays? He'll give up his right arm to win a game and has shown it time & time again. You never have to ask if DJ is into the game thats being played.
For my taste Triche is too passive, whether he feels it inside or not, to be an effective leader. Obviously, JB has always felt differently, and I would love to be proven wrong. We'll find out in the next few weeks.

 

[Townie72]

This is kind of a ridiculous thing to write. Every ball player should develop their ball-handling ability because it enhances EVERY position to be able to make some basic moves with fluidity. It doesn't take that much practice. 10-15 minutes a day over a 3 month period will allow a player to develop a halfway decent crossover, spin move and between the legs. I did it this way as an 11-year old, so don't tell me it can't be done. Ralph Sampson, all 7'4" of him had good dribbling skills because as a 6'8" 8th grader his HS coach told him he was probably as tall as he was going to get so he needed to do more than just stand under the basket. I saw him dribble between the legs on a fastbreak in the NBA.

I guess my points are that it doesn't take that much work, height shouldn't matter and every player should be working on improving their ball-handling.

"improving their ball handling skills" is so vague, who could be against that.

What we are talking about is ball handling skills at a level that would allow a player to dribble down the lane ... or at least into the key ... with two lightning quick guards standing there.

This isn't "improved skills", this is "superior ball handling skills". JS is miles away. My guess is so are you, your skills as a 11th grader mot withstanding.

 

[RF2044]

I'd respectfully disagree... with your disagreement.
Yes, Uncle Howard was lightly recruited and he had the good defense and dependable 10-15 fter. That's what was good about him, he wasn't expected to do much more, and he understood and played his role to perfection.
My comment about him not looking "interested" was more about his demeanor than anything else. I go by the view that passion plays a significant role in how players perform. The least talented player on the team, if he has some "want-to", can play a major role for a winning team. Tim Duncan advocated for Avery Johnson to be his starting PG w/ the Spurs. Why? It wasn't that AJ was physically gifted or anything, it was because he knew that AJ was a great leader- and Duncan needed someone to be that kinda leader for the Spurs to win. He also recognized that that wasn't HIS personality. Duncan is a great player, but he knew his strengths and his weaknesses.
With BT, I'd always feared that his demeanor, what he showed on the court while playing, was more that of a side-kick (a Bobby Bonilla/ ARod role), as opposed to the Alpha that Bonds or Jeter are. Again, Jeter has a "quiet" personality as well, but does anyone ever doubt his passion to step up, compete, and make winning plays? He'll give up his right arm to win a game and has shown it time & time again. You never have to ask if DJ is into the game thats being played.
For my taste Triche is too passive, whether he feels it inside or not, to be an effective leader. Obviously, JB has always felt differently, and I would love to be proven wrong. We'll find out in the next few weeks.

I won't dispute Triche's demeanor [although I tend to think some of that armchair psychology gets overblown--if Triche could stick some jumpers, I wouldn't remotely care what his facial expressions are like]. I just don't agree with painting Howard with the same brush--kid was a strong defender who played hard.

But in the big scheme of things, not worth "arguing" [I know we weren't arguing] about.

LGO!