Malik Brown Leaving Vols

[bnoro]

I just realized it doesn't matter anyways, we don't have a scholarship available even if we wanted to take him...

 

[Whitey23]

I just realized it doesn't matter anyways, we don't have a scholarship available even if we wanted to take him...

With Dawson's deferred enrollment, 21 other scholarship freshmen can enroll this summer and participate in August camp, but Shafer indicated that number may shrink.

"There's a couple I have concerns about whether they'll make it or not, but we'll just take it day-by-day, and as we get information hopefully it's good information," Shafer said. "I've been pleased with most of their work ethic and trying to get it done from what we've gathered. I think we're looking pretty good right now, but there's always one or two that come down to the wire, so we'll just have to wait and see how that goes."

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootb...nroll_in_january_coach_scott_shafer_says.html

 

[nzm136]

LOL where did I say I interviewed people that go from job to job ... talk about a straw man ... I hope you aren't an attorney because you suck at this debate thing. And I know what a red flag is ... it is obvious you can't defend your initial assessment and are back tracking and that is fine ... if I came off that pompous and stupid and didn't know anything I would do the same. At no point did I "invent" an argument ... if you read either of these threads on this topic my stance has been the same before you even posted.

As for me I'm really f&*^^& good at what I do and I'll be happy to back that up with references ... as for attrition and how it impacts him if you need me to explain how D1 football works and what an injury can do to an athlete at a football factory then you need to do some reading up ... a 1 year set back in a school that regularly brings in 4 star athletes can be a career killer and one could say he is smart for bailing and seeing the writing on the wall this quickly.

Again 7 DLs were recruited last year while he sat with a hand injury ... they just signed 37 kids and in a position where there is excessive depth you can take the opportunity to go where your skills can be better leveraged and you have a shot at more PT ... not hard to figure out.

Its like leaving a job for another one with higher pay ... if you say you don't do that then you are an even bigger idiot than I though ... except for Malik it isn't about pay its about PT and increasing his chance to see the field ... and since he transfers he is forced to sit and develop another year free of charge physically in an S&C program to enhance his value ... why is this so hard to comprehend?

“where did I say I interviewed people that go from job to job” Well, to answer your question, you said that you hire for a Fortune 500 company, while telling me that only sticking with an organization for 9 months isn’t a red flag. (“I've been a recruiter for a Fortune 50 company and I know one thing…”)
“And I know what a red flag is…” Clearly you don’t because you keep misusing the term. In your mind, a red flag means that we shouldn’t look at the kid at all. (“A kid gets injured and is not worth looking at?”)
“it is obvious you can't defend your initial assessment and are back tracking” Once again, randomly saying things doesn’t make them true, no matter how badly you want it (just like when you wanted to pretend that he was building up suspense during his decommittment). Show me where I have deviated in any way shape or form.
“if I came off that pompous and stupid and didn't know anything I would do the same.” Then I suggest that you start now.
“As for me I'm really f&*^^& good at what I do and I'll be happy to back that up with references” Please do. I would be happy to laugh at them.
“Its like leaving a job for another one with higher pay” No, it’s like having issues that could affect work and a high end company not wanting to take a risk on you. Ironically, I’m guessing that’s happened to you a couple of times.
“why is this so hard to comprehend?”
You’re hard to comprehend because you make random and incoherent points that bounce around and you don’t use complete sentences. Weird, given that you are “a very successful hiring agent for a’ Fortune 500’ company.” Word of advice, though. If you’re going to build up a job, don’t claim to be in a HR department of a huge company. Aim higher. Also, don’t write like an uneducated buffoon. Use complete sentences and lay off the ellipses. Either way, using a resume to prove a point in an internet sports argument is pathetic and desperate, especially when you A) have no way of proving it, and B) don’t know the other guy’s resume.

 

[nzm136]

You realize he has to pass admission standards whether he's walking on or coming via scholarship, right?

You do realize that the standards aren't the same, right?

 

[wfschrec]

“where did I say I interviewed people that go from job to job” Well, to answer your question, you said that you hire for a Fortune 500 company, while telling me that only sticking with an organization for 9 months isn’t a red flag. (“I've been a recruiter for a Fortune 50 company and I know one thing…”)
“And I know what a red flag is…” Clearly you don’t because you keep misusing the term. In your mind, a red flag means that we shouldn’t look at the kid at all. (“A kid gets injured and is not worth looking at?”)
“it is obvious you can't defend your initial assessment and are back tracking” Once again, randomly saying things doesn’t make them true, no matter how badly you want it (just like when you wanted to pretend that he was building up suspense during his decommittment). Show me where I have deviated in any way shape or form.
“if I came off that pompous and stupid and didn't know anything I would do the same.” Then I suggest that you start now.
“As for me I'm really f&*^^& good at what I do and I'll be happy to back that up with references” Please do. I would be happy to laugh at them.
“Its like leaving a job for another one with higher pay” No, it’s like having issues that could affect work and a high end company not wanting to take a risk on you. Ironically, I’m guessing that’s happened to you a couple of times.
“why is this so hard to comprehend?”
You’re hard to comprehend because you make random and incoherent points that bounce around and you don’t use complete sentences. Weird, given that you are “a very successful hiring agent for a’ Fortune 500’ company.” Word of advice, though. If you’re going to build up a job, don’t claim to be in a HR department of a huge company. Aim higher. Also, don’t write like an uneducated buffoon. Use complete sentences and lay off the ellipses. Either way, using a resume to prove a point in an internet sports argument is pathetic and desperate, especially when you A) have no way of proving it, and B) don’t know the other guy’s resume.

I never claimed to be in HR ... I recruited engineers for a Fortune 500 company ... literacy not your strong suit? I was an engineer deployed to look at and make recommendations based on interviewing candidates and reviewing resumes and I have had to manage my own engineering teams. By the way don't equate 9 months of college to a professional job, not the same ... unless someone like yourself is working on your 8th senior year trying to get that degree LOL ... have anymore stupid rationalizations you wish to share? Don't forget its just an internet sports argument so lets not red flag a kid for doing what quite a few athletes do ... you know like transfer from one school to another. And it is just a message board so I'll make my quips how I see fit ... after all I do have to read your drivel

 

[nzm136]

I think you're way overstating things. Injuries don't speak for themselves when you have no clue what they actually were. We have a guy on our team that destroyed his knee last year, based on your philosophy, we should just cut him. Sean Hickey fought the injury bug prior to being very productive two years ago. Dwight Freeney had one healthy season in 4 years. The kid has had one season in college and we have no idea what his injury situation is/was. You mention him leaving an "organization" as if he's a 28 year old free agent in the NFL. He's a 19 year old college student. We don't know what he was told by Butch Jones and whether that measured up to what actually transpired over the last year. Is Quinta Funderburk a bad egg simply because he decided to leave one BCS program for another? I'm not sure where you're getting the possible attitude problem thing from. Have there been reports of him breaking team rules or feuding with teammates or coaches? It seems that the stuff that ranges from bad to very bad may be getting exaggerated in your mind.

Can you read? I said that it speaks for itself in relation to being a red flag.

As for the destroyed knee, I never said that we should just cut anybody because they have an injury. I said that it's a red flag, as in it should be investigated, as with any other injury. Do you honestly think that organizations like the NFL don't investigate a player's past health and take that into consideration when determining whether they should draft him?

No, I mention him leaving an organization like he's over the age of majority (i.e. a 19 year old colelge student). "We don't know what he was told by Butch Jones and whether that measured up to what actually transpired over the last year." EXACTLY, that's why we should ask, hence it being a red flag. There may very well be an innocent reason for his departure, but it may be because the kid is a jerk and everyone on the team hates him, causing him to view his situation UT as an unliveable situation. We don't know and until we do, it's a reason for concern, no matter how much you want to bury your head in the sands of blissful ignorance and stupidity.

" Is Quinta Funderburk a bad egg simply because he decided to leave one BCS program for another?" Quinta probably isn't, but that doesn't mean that there haven't been a ton of bad people who have left organizations. In fact, I would wager that most people who bounce from organization to organization are bad eggs.

"I'm not sure where you're getting the possible attitude problem thing from." I'm using it as an example. Maybe he just doesn't have any friends, maybe he's a primadonna, maybe he doesn't like coaches, but is smart enough to keep it to himself. Who knows? Maybe he has an innocent reason. Unlike you, I am not claiming to know.

"It seems that the stuff that ranges from bad to very bad may be getting exaggerated in your mind." Huh? You didn't say a single word to substantiate this claim. Not a single one.

 

[wfschrec]

You do realize that the standards aren't the same, right?

Can you read? I said that it speaks for itself in relation to being a red flag.

As for the destroyed knee, I never said that we should just cut anybody because they have an injury. I said that it's a red flag, as in it should be investigated, as with any other injury. Do you honestly think that organizations like the NFL don't investigate a player's past health and take that into consideration when determining whether they should draft him?

No, I mention him leaving an organization like he's over the age of majority (i.e. a 19 year old colelge student). "We don't know what he was told by Butch Jones and whether that measured up to what actually transpired over the last year." EXACTLY, that's why we should ask, hence it being a red flag. There may very well be an innocent reason for his departure, but it may be because the kid is a jerk and everyone on the team hates him, causing him to view his situation UT as an unliveable situation. We don't know and until we do, it's a reason for concern, no matter how much you want to bury your head in the sands of blissful ignorance and stupidity.

" Is Quinta Funderburk a bad egg simply because he decided to leave one BCS program for another?" Quinta probably isn't, but that doesn't mean that there haven't been a ton of bad people who have left organizations. In fact, I would wager that most people who bounce from organization to organization are bad eggs.

"I'm not sure where you're getting the possible attitude problem thing from." I'm using it as an example. Maybe he just doesn't have any friends, maybe he's a primadonna, maybe he doesn't like coaches, but is smart enough to keep it to himself. Who knows? Maybe he has an innocent reason. Unlike you, I am not claiming to know.

"It seems that the stuff that ranges from bad to very bad may be getting exaggerated in your mind." Huh? You didn't say a single word to substantiate this claim. Not a single one.

I've already spelled out exactly why Malik left ... you just aren't literate enough to grasp it ... so I will try one more time ...

Step 1.) Falls in love with SEC glitz after being lied to by SU coaches about their status
Step 2.) Joins a pretty young DL core to begin with
Step 3.) Hurts hand and while out of action Jones adds 7 more defensive linemen to the roster the next class
Step 4.) 37 players signed means guys already on roster that want more PT are encouraged to bolt to free up schollies at positions that are already deep. I'm willing to bet Malik wanted more PT, was told it isn't happening and was encouraged to go somewhere where he could get that ...

Why is it so hard to grasp?

 

[nzm136]

I never claimed to be in HR ... I recruited engineers for a Fortune 500 company ... literacy not your strong suit? I was an engineer deployed to look at and make recommendations based on interviewing candidates and reviewing resumes and I have had to manage my own engineering teams. By the way don't equate 9 months of college to a professional job, not the same ... unless someone like yourself is working on your 8th senior year trying to get that degree LOL ... have anymore stupid rationalizations you wish to share? Don't forget its just an internet sports argument so lets not red flag a kid for doing what quite a few athletes do ... you know like transfer from one school to another. And it is just a message board so I'll make my quips how I see fit ... after all I do have to read your drivel

So you were a recruiter, but not involved with HR? When you say "I was an engineer deployed to look at and make recommendations based on interviewing candidates and reviewing resumes..." it sounds a lot like you were a HR guy for an engineering department, hence the hiring of engineers.

College and the working world are not the same, but there are a lot of similarities between fitting into a collegiate organization and fitting into a professional organization.

I really wish I was an 8th year senior. If I was a smarter man, I would be (just like everyone else in here). College was a great time.

"have anymore stupid rationalizations you wish to share?"
It sounds like I hurt your feelings.

"Don't forget its just an internet sports argument so lets not red flag a kid for doing what quite a few athletes do ... you know like transfer from one school to another."
First off, statistically, not many kids do transfer, so you're wrong. And, why not red flag a kid for damaging his resume as it pertains to the liklihood of joingin an organization to which I'm attached? You seem to be in love with the kid and are apparently in a position to hire. You offer him a job [rolls eyes]. I'm still not convinced that you grasp the concept of a red flag.

"And it is just a message board so I'll make my quips how I see fit"
Feel free. I just won't believe that you are a highly educated successful progessional (who does HR) if you continue to write like a high school dropout. I'm guessing that many people are in my boat, too.

"after all I do have to read your drivel"
You have a point here. I don't use very many pictures, which are probably more to you liking.

 

[nzm136]

I've already spelled out exactly why Malik left ... you just aren't literate enough to grasp it ... so I will try one more time ...

Step 1.) Falls in love with SEC glitz after being lied to by SU coaches about their status
Step 2.) Joins a pretty young DL core to begin with
Step 3.) Hurts hand and while out of action Jones adds 7 more defensive linemen to the roster the next class
Step 4.) 37 players signed means guys already on roster that want more PT are encouraged to bolt to free up schollies at positions that are already deep. I'm willing to bet Malik wanted more PT, was told it isn't happening and was encouraged to go somewhere where he could get that ...

Why is it so hard to grasp?

Do you know him personally, and if he's so great, why is step 3 a problem? Also, if he's so great, why is step 4 a problem? Competition only cuts into playing time if it isn't clear tha tyou are better than them. Does his inability to compete raise a red flag? *GASP*

 

[nzm136]

Have you paid attention to how many of our commits have said our name wrong? Offer him a chance to walk on? Seriously? That's like saying, "We're not really interested in you, so don't waste your time." If the coaching staff thinks he can improve the team you give him a scholarship. If not, you politely say no thank you and put him in the past. It's that simple.

"Have you paid attention to how many of our commits have said our name wrong?"
A ton, but football players aren't known for being super smart, not are they?

"Offer him a chance to walk on? Seriously? That's like saying, 'We're not really interested in you, so don't waste your time.'"
No. Offering a position as a walk on is exactly like saying "[w]e're not really interested in you, so don't waste your time." That's why I only said that we should do it if the coaches didn't want him (a.k.a. "we're not really interested in him.")

"If the coaching staff thinks he can improve the team you give him a scholarship."
Yes, but if they don't want him, then I'm guessing that they don't think that he can improve the team. How about you?

"If not, you politely say no thank you and put him in the past."
This sounds a lot like telling the kid that he can enroll and try to walk on, or go to a smaller program (i.e. USF) and ask them for a scholly, which is literally exactly what I advocated.

"It's that simple."
I agree. Why are you trying to argue with me and then restating my points as your own. Did you not read what I wrote? I honestly think that you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[orange79]

Can't we all just get along?

 

[nzm136]

Honestly, how does it help Syracuse's situation for a solid prospect to NOT come here, even if said prospect had chosen another school over Syracuse in the past? What good does it do the program to hold a grudge? Let's make Malik a case in point: if the staff refuses his admission because of bygones, then they fail to bring in a good prospect, Malik is frustrated with Syracuse and Syracuse loses reputation with Malik's inner circle or whatever other prospective players he has influence on.

If Syracuse lets bygones be bygones, they gain more depth at DE and Malik REALLY gets to realize his first mistake and becomes a positive ambassador for the team. I don't there's any question that if the staff likes Malik's potential they would let a past slight hold them from taking him in.

"I don't there's any question that if the staff likes Malik's potential they would let a past slight hold them from taking him in."
Nobody is arguing against this. Well, at least I'm not.

 

[wfschrec]

Do you know him personally, and if he's so great, why is step 3 a problem? Also, if he's so great, why is step 4 a problem? Competition only cuts into playing time if it isn't clear tha tyou are better than them. Does his inability to compete raise a red flag? *GASP*

There is regional vs national recruiting and of course the argument of a 6 hour halo and how it plays into coaching decisions. For example Jones brings in five 4 star athletes for a position ... or even multiple positions ... if those players are even in potential and ability usually the player within that radius or in alignment with a certain member of the staff is given preference ... this was the argument Ishaq's father used when talking to NYC kids about SU vs other schools and why SU gives them an advantage. You don't crap in your own backyard so kids closer to home get preference.

IMHO opinion a guy like Brown can contribute at a lot of schools and be an upgrade for them, he was pulled in by a new staff to fill what they felt might be a need at a power program ... only I don't think even Jones would have expected them to get 37 recruits the following cycle ... Brown at some programs would be a solid contributor ... in a pool of 4 stars (which SU doesn't have) his chances are slim that he would get substantial playing time.

 

[nzm136]

There is regional vs national recruiting and of course the argument of a 6 hour halo and how it plays into coaching decisions. For example Jones brings in five 4 star athletes for a position ... or even multiple positions ... if those players are even in potential and ability usually the player within that radius or in alignment with a certain member of the staff is given preference ... this was the argument Ishaq's father used when talking to NYC kids about SU vs other schools and why SU gives them an advantage. You don't crap in your own backyard so kids closer to home get preference.

IMHO opinion a guy like Brown can contribute at a lot of schools and be an upgrade for them, he was pulled in by a new staff to fill what they felt might be a need at a power program ... only I don't think even Jones would have expected them to get 37 recruits the following cycle ... Brown at some programs would be a solid contributor ... in a pool of 4 stars (which SU doesn't have) his chances are slim that he would get substantial playing time.

First off, your halo-cause theory doesn't prove why he left. It is only an unsubstantiated theory in your head. None the less, you may be right. However, none of us know that. I simply said that it's a red flag, as in something that warrents investigation. Go through all my posts if you want. Not a single one of them said that we shouldn't take him under any conditions. I just said that my gut says that the coaching staff isn't going to take a risk on him, and it looks like I'm right. Weird.

Even then, though. You're claiming that this guy is an average player on an average team who had an injury plauged year last year. To me, that alone is a red flag. He may be able to explain it away. Who knows? The injury might have been a one time fluke, and he might be average becaue of Tennessee's system, but Syracuse might have a system that would turn him into a star. However, those are all "mights," meaning that there are red flags there.

 

[wfschrec]

First off, your halo-cause theory doesn't prove why he left. It is only an unsubstantiated theory in your head. None the less, you may be right. However, none of us know that. I simply said that it's a red flag, as in something that warrents investigation. Go through all my posts if you want. Not a single one of them said that we shouldn't take him under any conditions. I just said that my gut says that the coaching staff isn't going to take a risk on him, and it looks like I'm right. Weird.

Even then, though. You're claiming that this guy is an average player on an average team who had an injury plauged year last year. To me, that alone is a red flag. He may be able to explain it away. Who knows? The injury might have been a one time fluke, and he might be average becaue of Tennessee's system, but Syracuse might have a system that would turn him into a star. However, those are all "mights," meaning that there are red flags there.

DE 158 http://cdn-o.At their request, this...s being blocked from this site./*/star-16.png Malik Brown
(William T. Dwyer HS)
Palm Beach Gardens, FL http://media.At their request, this network is being blocked from this site./media/site_logo/camera.gif 6-3/253/4.60 02/06/2013 http://media.At their request, this...ed from this site./media/a/_network/check.gif Tennessee
DE 78 http://cdn-o.At their request, this...s being blocked from this site./*/star-16.png Jaylen Miller
(Gaffney Senior HS)
Gaffney, SC http://media.At their request, this network is being blocked from this site./media/site_logo/camera.gif 6-2/260 02/06/2013 http://media.At their request, this...ed from this site./media/a/_network/check.gif Tennessee
DE 59 http://cdn-o.At their request, this...s being blocked from this site./*/star-16.png Corey Vereen
(West Orange HS)
Winter Garden, FL http://media.At their request, this network is being blocked from this site./media/site_logo/camera.gif 6-2/233 03/02/2012 http://media.At their request, this...ed from this site./media/a/_network/check.gif Tennessee
DE 24 http://cdn-o.At their request, this...s being blocked from this site./*/star-16.png Jason Carr
(White Station HS)
Memphis, TN http://media.At their request, this network is being blocked from this site./media/site_logo/camera.gif 6-6/275 01/28/2012 http://media.At their request, this...ed from this site./media/a/_network/check.gif Tennessee

DE PG http://cdn-o.At their request, this...s being blocked from this site./*/star-16.png Dimarya Mixon
(West Mesquite HS)
Mesquite, TX 6-3/265 11/09/2013 http://media.At their request, this...ed from this site./media/a/_network/check.gif Tennessee

16 http://cdn-o.At their request, this...s being blocked from this site./*/star-16.png Dewayne Hendrix
(O'Fallon HS)
O'Fallon, IL http://media.At their request, this network is being blocked from this site./media/site_logo/camera.gif 6-4/250 10/27/2013 http://media.At their request, this...ed from this site./media/a/_network/check.gif Tennessee

DE 27 http://cdn-o.At their request, this...s being blocked from this site./*/star-16.png Derek Barnett
(Brentwood Academy)
Brentwood, TN http://media.At their request, this network is being blocked from this site./media/site_logo/camera.gif 6-3/281 10/09/2013 http://media.At their request, this...ed from this site./media/a/_network/check.gif Tennessee


DE 72 http://cdn-o.At their request, this...s being blocked from this site./*/star-16.png Joseph Henderson
(Shaker Heights HS)
Shaker Heights, OH http://media.At their request, this network is being blocked from this site./media/site_logo/camera.gif 6-4/225 05/30/2013 http://media.At their request, this...ed from this site./media/a/_network/check.gif Tennessee

 

[wfschrec]

Above are all the guys they brought in ... including Malik .. those 4 stars are why he is leaving. The hand injury was mild but delayed his development ... however I am happy they aren't looking at transfers because that means the inn is full and they like who they have ... that brings me great joy.

 

[anomander]

I want to buy a Jump To Conclusions mat for so many people in this thread.

Sounds like you need one for yourself.

Just do a search on his name it's not that hard. You can see what his issues were at UT, and that he was trimmed because he couldn't cut it.

I guess Shafer is jumping to conclusion's too by not wanting him.

 

[anomander]

Above are all the guys they brought in ... including Malik .. those 4 stars are why he is leaving. The hand injury was mild but delayed his development ... however I am happy they aren't looking at transfers because that means the inn is full and they like who they have ... that brings me great joy.

he ended up putting on a lot of weight apparently. that may have had something to do with it?

 

[wfschrec]

he ended up putting on a lot of weight apparently. that may have had something to do with it?

He is up to 265 now right?

 

[tep624]

I'll say this about HCSS, I've heard him say multiple times, if these kids do not want to be here I dont want them here. That's why it doesn't surprise me that this stance is being taken in regards to Malik. I was interested to see how it played out because of Syracuse's depth, or lack thereof, but he's held true to what he's said. And I wouldn't expect anything less from him.

This 3,000 times over. There was a reason I said from the beginning that I don't believe he embodies the level of character and leadership that the staff is looking for in players and I'm glad that Coach Shafer has drawn a line in the sand and is standing behind it. You don't compromise your principles out of convenience.

It's not about what you do in many cases, it's how you do it.

 

[nzm136]

How many of those guys are staying?

 

[wfschrec]

How many of those guys are staying?

Don't know ... all I know is when you bring in 37 kids ... some have to go ... I'm not even sure how he can do that honestly .. I know the Kiffin disaster left a barren roster but wow ... 37!

 

[tep624]

Don't know ... all I know is when you bring in 37 kids ... some have to go ... I'm not even sure how he can do that honestly .. I know the Kiffin disaster left a barren roster but wow ... 37!

It's a massive problem in the SEC, pretty much widespread. Even SEC teams don't usually do it that blatantly though.

 

[wfschrec]

It's a massive problem in the SEC, pretty much widespread. Even SEC teams don't usually do it that blatantly though.

Nope which is why when anomander originally stated the number I had to go back and check thinking ... no way in hell they did that ... but sure enough ... they did.

 

[billsin01]

This 3,000 times over. There was a reason I said from the beginning that I don't believe he embodies the level of character and leadership that the staff is looking for in players and I'm glad that Coach Shafer has drawn a line in the sand and is standing behind it. You don't compromise your principles out of convenience.

It's not about what you do in many cases, it's how you do it.

I thought once DM was gone we'd stop having to hear about character. If the staff is not interested in Brown and they think he may be a guy who could create more problems than he would solve, I'm cool with it. But 'character' and 'leadership' being major factors in who we sign is not only naive (at least to the extent that every coach ever is going to take several chances and hope they can 'turn kids around' ... or at least get good production out of a talented athlete and hope he doesn't screw up too bad) but it's also next to impossible to measure.

I am fine with coaches trying to get a gauge on how kids will conduct themselves and how hard they will work and how they will fit into a locker room, etc. but there is just so much out of a coach's control and so much they can't predict. Talent, on the other hand, is tangible and, at least to a fairly large degree, something you can measure. It is the general basis on who is recruited and who isn't in most cases, regardless of what the coaches say to the fans and boosters and media, etc.