Man to man?

[GooseMutt]

Well, that settles it.

Let's switch to a defense that opposing teams play themselves and that they face almost all the time to one that doesn't bore you.

Instead let’s all adopt a persistent devils advocate negative annoying attitude that intentionally seeks to demean all. Not you of course

 

[Townie72]

Common sense is my unsupported evidence. Not everyone wants to play zone, especially NBA bound kids. Can you say with 100 percent certainty that zone does not affect recruiting? just because you cannot prove a point does not mean that it is wrong.

Check the. Basketball Recruiting tab. There’s a five star recruit from Ohio, PF Jackson, stating that one of the principal reasons he is interested in SU is because of the Zone.

That’s my evidence. Where’s yours?

 

[Townie72]

Instead let’s all adopt a persistent devils advocate negative annoying attitude that intentionally seeks to demean all. Not you of course

If there’s a Devils Advocate in this is you. I’m supporting the strategy of the HOF coach.

I actually didn’t take your post all that seriously. No one could actually be serious about wanting SU to change its strategy to alleviate the frustration of a single, random fan.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Yeah bro. How many games have YOU won?

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah bro. How many games have YOU won?

You know, it really makes you think.

 

[Townie72]

for some reason, I actually believe that this is Swearingen replying and I read all your posts with his voice in my head. Its freaking intimidating.

Relax. There's only a small chance you'll end up on the dinner menu of Wu's pigs.

But I didn't pick that avatar randomly. Al is representative of my approach, especially if someone pushes one of my many buttons.

For an older guy like myself who watched hundreds, if not thousands of old cowboy movies. the reality of Al Swearingen was like a bucket of ice water to me. Saloon owners were frequently the bad guys, but they all lacked the grit of Al. He was the first believable Western bad guy.

I always wanted to take a shower after watching Al, his henchman Dorrity or hotel keeper, E.B. Farnum.

 

[W'boro'Cuse315]

Check the. Basketball Recruiting tab. There’s a five star recruit from Ohio, PF Jackson, stating that one of the principal reasons he is interested in SU is because of the Zone.

That’s my evidence. Where’s yours?

Nick Richards & Jahvon Quinerly both openly stated that they did not want to play zone in college. I’m not saying that’s why neither came here, just providing some examples.

FWIW, I’ve always assumed that your avatar was some famous musician I didn’t recognize.

 

[kcsu]

Common sense is my unsupported evidence. Not everyone wants to play zone, especially NBA bound kids. Can you say with 100 percent certainty that zone does not affect recruiting? just because you cannot prove a point does not mean that it is wrong.

Townie is never wrong. Dont ever question his knowledge, intelligence, or complete and total understanding of all things related to Syracuse Basketball.

 

[Townie72]

Nick Richards & Jahvon Quinerly both openly stated that they did not want to play zone in college. I’m not saying that’s why neither came here, just providing some examples.

FWIW, I’ve always assumed that your avatar was some famous musician I didn’t recognize.

If you are not saying that’s why they didn’t come to SU, then what’s your point?

So few schools play zone exclusively, they didn’t eliminate many potential places did they.

Jackson is a 5 Star that is attracted to SU because of the Zone.

 

[Townie72]

Townie is never wrong. Dont ever question his knowledge, intelligence, or complete and total understanding of all things related to Syracuse Basketball.

A lot of people want to pontificate on here, but are offended when anyone argues with them or takes another position. It’s as if they think their statements ought to end the conversation.

It’s either they have very thin skin or don’t understand the concept of debate.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Check the. Basketball Recruiting tab. There’s a five star recruit from Ohio, PF Jackson, stating that one of the principal reasons he is interested in SU is because of the Zone.

That’s my evidence. Where’s yours?

Come on, man. The outlier is not "evidence." And even if you accepted it as such, it's just as 'reasonable' to make correlative negative assertions about a player who would favor zone in what is, practically, an NBA audition.

 

[sufandu]

A lot of people want to pontificate on here, but are offended when anyone argues with them or takes another position. It’s as if they think their statements ought to end the conversation.

It’s either they have very thin skin or don’t understand the concept of debate.

Pot, meet kettle

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

This years team screams zone to me as much as any. Doubt the press is anywhere near as good without Battle and Oshae. But we'll have to change if a team less athletic than us comes in and starts draining nonstop 3s someone like BC you make the switch if you find yourself down 10 bc they can't miss.

 

[malpearl31]

I agree with this and most posts that are along the same lines (i.e. we won't play m2m in games that really matter). We are, as has been clearly playing out since 96, pretty unlikely to see much m2m period, even in games that should be easier for this group.

Having said that, it's an interesting comment relative to this specific team b/c it's not really a roster that plays into what we've done for much of the past decade or so which is to try and get extremely long, play suffocating zone and score enough to (hopefully) win.

I mean, Carey is a kid who is probably going to be at his best in transition/unsettled situations and while he's certainly not undersized he's not cut from the G/MCW/Brandon Triche (who played some point)/Frank mold of playing the point at 6'5"+. Girard is more of an off-ball player, at least at this point, and he's 6-foot essentially. Hughes is a little short by our zone standards at the 3 and not a particularly great defender that I could see ... at least last season.

So I don't know that any of that makes us better at man since we're not exceptionally quick but maybe? The other factor is that teams play man by switching everything now, which essentially turns it into more of a zone anyway, so I wonder if that might alter JB's thinking going forward?

Anyway, I agree, doubtful we'll see much man but I do wonder if JB might be headed toward employing a bit more of it moving forward.

I agree with you that in theory, the zone might not be particularly well-suited to some of the lineups that we could potentially have on the floor this year. If we’re playing an opponent that isn’t particularly tall, or one that decides to ‘go small’ for a stretch, I would love to see us play some smaller, 3-guard lineups that might be able to go man-to-man for a few minutes. I’m thinking potentially Jalen, Girard, and Buddy - with Hughes and Sidibe to round out the lineup. That lineup would have a lot of shooting and could really stretch the defense (and allow Jalen some driving lanes to the basket).

But in the past couple of years, it seems to me like JB has been hesitant to go with 3 guard lineups, because that means sliding a guard down to one of the forward spots, defensively. If he can find a way to mix in some man defense - and maybe couple that with a faster pace/more shooting, I think that would make a lot of people happy (and more importantly might make us a better team with our current roster construction).

 

[Townie72]

Come on, man. The outlier is not "evidence." And even if you accepted it as such, it's just as 'reasonable' to make correlative negative assertions about a player who would favor zone in what is, practically, an NBA audition.

What part of "A zone with man-to-man principles" don't you understand?

 

[Townie72]

Pot, meet kettle

The big difference its that I'm not whining about people taking opposing viewpoints. I expect it. I like a little contest of wits.

So there is no "pot, meet kettle" situation here.

You'll also notice that there is little, if any, ad hominem elements in my arguments. But some on here take any pushing back on their posts as a personal attack.

 

[samspann1]

Jackson is a 5 Star that is attracted to SU because of the Zone.

He cited the zone as one of the reasons he likes SU.

So, if he opts to attend school elsewhere, will it be because he likes that school's core offensive & defensive principles better than SU's?

 

[Townie72]

He cited the zone as one of the reasons he likes SU.

So, if he opts to attend school elsewhere, will it be because he likes that school's core offensive & defensive principles better than SU's?

He's actually all over the lot. He likes UK because they "develop pros". He likes Alabama because their coach plays a wide-open offensive style;

Syracuse: “When I went on campus for an unofficial last year I liked it, I liked the vibe and stuff and the way they play defense with a two-three zone kind of thing, I think that fits me perfect with me blocking shots and stuff.”

The important part of this is that here's a direct contradiction to the point made over and over again on here by a few people that the zone negatively affects recruiting. They have tried to establish that as an article of faith on here even though there is scant evidence to support it.

 

[sufandu]

The big difference its that I'm not whining about people taking opposing viewpoints. I expect it. I like a little contest of wits.

So there is no "pot, meet kettle" situation here.

You'll also notice that there is little, if any, ad hominem elements in my arguments. But some on here take any pushing back on their posts as a personal attack.

If you don't recognize the frequency with which you use sarcasm to belittle others as a strategy to win arguments, you're blind.

 

[samspann1]

He's actually all over the lot. He likes UK because they "develop pros". He likes Alabama because their coach plays a wide-open offensive style;

Syracuse: “When I went on campus for an unofficial last year I liked it, I liked the vibe and stuff and the way they play defense with a two-three zone kind of thing, I think that fits me perfect with me blocking shots and stuff.”

The important part of this is that here's a direct contradiction to the point made over and over again on here by a few people that the zone negatively affects recruiting. They have tried to establish that as an article of faith on here even though there is scant evidence to support it.

How often do you see recruits provide specific reasons why they don't select a school/program?

One kid saying that he's interested in SU in part because of the zone isn't dispositive of anything.

 

[two3zone]

What part of "A zone with man-to-man principles" don't you understand?

Define this. I hear it often but it really doesn't make sense.

 

[Townie72]

Define this. I hear it often but it really doesn't make sense.

You're kidding.

It has to do with pressure on the ball as in a tight man-to-man. It's one of the reasons SU is such a good defensive team against three point shots.

 

[two3zone]

You're kidding.

It has to do with pressure on the ball as in a tight man-to-man. It's one of the reasons SU is such a good defensive team against three point shots.

So essentially every zone I've ever seen before.

Don't think I've ever seen a zone where there wasnt pressure on the ball on the defensive side of the court.

 

[Townie72]

How often do you see recruits provide specific reasons why they don't select a school/program?

One kid saying that he's interested in SU in part because of the zone isn't dispositive of anything.

"How often do you see recruits provide specific reasons why they don't select a school/program?"

Never. Which is why those who say the zone hurts recruiting are curiosities.

 

[Townie72]

So essentially every zone I've ever seen before.

Don't think I've ever seen a zone where there wasnt pressure on the ball on the defensive side of the court.

C'mon. It's a question of degree.

The average zone is frequently more passive and dares opponents to shoot longer shots.

SU's zone is different in a lot of ways including frequently pressuring the ball as in a man-to-man. A long-armed , 6-5 guard can do this more effectivey than a 5-11 one.

How can you not know this? I think you are feigning ignorance on this.