Marrone Situation

[supp]

This doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

There are almost no college HC jobs open right now. Maybe 1-2 will open up if someone jumps to the NFL. Are you suggesting that Marrone will certainly fill one of those 1-2, or will somehow get hired into a job that isn't currently open right now?

If he leaves for the NFL, I get it. But the college part makes no sense.

I am also doubtful that he'd make a move like that. Just not in his character. I fear the board hysteria has infected the insiders too.

 

[CIL]

This is the first I am hearing about HCDM almost leaving after Pinstripe 1, you got a link for any of that info?

This is very true.

 

[All4SU]

If he leaves, it's going to really mess up my plans for the HCDM tattoo I've been saving up for...

 

[Jersey Orange]

Allocate resources in which way? 3 other ACC schools are building practice facilities, or just did, and all of them were 100% funded with donor money. What must the school do to find these donors? I know the school and even the staff have worked hard to identify and culitvate these people but what is the magic wand? I feel the investment in the program is lacking from a fan/donor perspective far more than an SU perspective.

I completely agree that Syracuse has a "donor" issue which results in a capital shortfall re facilities. I also completely agree that other school's do fund their facilities primarily through friends of the program. The issue is that Syracuse's facilities are lacking and it makes it very difficult to recruit against top-35 caliber programs - an issue that I believe that Syracuse created for themselves by not properly investing in the program during the early Pasqualoni years.

However, the facilities shortfall exists and it is a problem. Syracuse will soon be playing a difficult ACC and OOC schedule. They can either wait for the FB program to come up with the cash for 3, 4, 5 years (during a period where conference realignment puts FB performance/commitment at a premium) or they can be creative and do things differently through a mix of third-party financing / general account loan to the AD / sponsorships etc. My preference is that they do the latter - recognizing that this is not the norm in college athletics - or increase the risk of being left out when the next round of realignment arrives.

 

[dasher]

well... the nfl seems to be shaking out. there are reports that he has no shot at the browns gig and the bills are infatuated with Wisnehunt.

I think everyone is getting worked up, but not Doc nor Doug. They seemed to have a nice chat at the bball game.

I wouldn't read anything in to the chat at the hoop game. They are both professionals and I am sure there would be no hard feelings if Doug leaves. That is the business they have chosen. Does anyone really doubt that if UCLA or USC opened up, tgd wouldn't leave if they offered him?

 

[Cusee44]

Quick, someone else start a new thread with your own made-up rumor!

 

[dasher]

I completely agree that Syracuse has a "donor" issue which results in a capital shortfall re facilities. I also completely agree that other school's do fund their facilities primarily through friends of the program. The issue is that Syracuse's facilities are lacking and it makes it very difficult to recruit against top-35 caliber programs - an issue that I believe that Syracuse created for themselves by not properly investing in the program during the early Pasqualoni years.

However, the facilities shortfall exists and it is a problem. Syracuse will soon be playing a difficult ACC and OOC schedule. They can either wait for the FB program to come up with the cash for 3, 4, 5 years (during a period where conference realignment puts FB performance/commitment at a premium) or they can be creative and do things differently through a mix of third-party financing / general account loan to the AD / sponsorships etc. My preference is that they do the latter - recognizing that this is not the norm in college athletics - or increase the risk of being left out when the next round of realignment arrives.

That I agree with 100%. This is the time to make sure you are in line for what comes next.

 

[billsin01]

Allocate resources in which way? 3 other ACC schools are building practice facilities, or just did, and all of them were 100% funded with donor money. What must the school do to find these donors? I know the school and even the staff have worked hard to identify and culitvate these people but what is the magic wand? I feel the investment in the program is lacking from a fan/donor perspective far more than an SU perspective.

I have no idea how this stuff works but I'm not sure I quite understand why a massive influx in TV cash wouldn't allow them to start working on financing a facilities upgrade on their own while they work to -- over the next several years/decade -- develop donor relationships to help with these projects going forward. I know that the university apparently has some sort of policy that a certain percentage has to be raised privately, etc., but this is a new era of massive spending on facilities/coaches, etc. and it might require some changes to those policies. I believe CTO cited the hoops team and the law school and others, but it's pretty clear that football stands alone as a cash cow these days.

 

[kingtidge]

Allocate resources in which way? 3 other ACC schools are building practice facilities, or just did, and all of them were 100% funded with donor money. What must the school do to find these donors? I know the school and even the staff have worked hard to identify and culitvate these people but what is the magic wand? I feel the investment in the program is lacking from a fan/donor perspective far more than an SU perspective.

In the end, this is TGD's responsibility, no? To get big dogs to kick down for facility upgrades??

If lack of funding for facilities upgrades is the main issue with HCDMs interest elsewhere (as many maintain) and he does leave, I would think TGD would follow him in short order.

In the end, it's a big part of TGD's job to get big fish donors to stroke checks, and if he can't do that, well...

 

[Nick44]

If the University chooses too, can these problems be fixed or is it too late?

If a HC offer for HCDM comes tomorrow, is it game over, or does the BoT have a chance to fix this situation?

 

[Scooch]

I am also doubtful that he'd make a move like that. Just not in his character. I fear the board hysteria has infected the insiders too.

I don't think it's about "character", it's about not making any sense. Marrone would certainly leave to take an NFL HC job, and he might very well leave to take a clear upgrade to the Syracuse HC job. But why would he leave for "anything", which JO implies? He's going to Nevada? Come on.

 

[kcsu]

Allocate resources in which way? 3 other ACC schools are building practice facilities, or just did, and all of them were 100% funded with donor money. What must the school do to find these donors? I know the school and even the staff have worked hard to identify and culitvate these people but what is the magic wand? I feel the investment in the program is lacking from a fan/donor perspective far more than an SU perspective.

Bees i couldnt agree more but i want to make a point. At one time in my life i ran a large global company. We had operations as far away as the Island Nation of Mauritius. We began to land major contracts with some new companies that were just getting started and i was having a hard time financing the operations to handle the business because nobody really new about Travelocity, Orbitz, Eharmony and many other emerging on-line companies. In short i couldnt get financing yet i knew that if we made the investment it would come back in spades down the road. Well what did we do we pulled the trigger went upstream against corporate convenance told the Board to change our charter and enable us to invest and after much BS they caved, we invested and about 3 years later it all came back bigger than anything we had ever expected. Our BOT is at that point. Sure everyone else gets it done with contributions but for whatever reason we have not. So the BOT is faced with a decision. Stick to the old way and risk all of the gains that have been made or show some leadership and pull the trigger on what amounts to a rounding error for the school. Lets say that we didnt have a single dollar in contributions. Who cares we are talking about 20-30 million. Im sure the University can down stroke this for 10% put a sunset clause on the deal 25-30 years out and pay interest only at 5-6%. We are talking 3m down and at worst 1.5m a year in interest. For the love of God i have no idea why they dont get this and stop with the ----- BS about the fans stepping up and contributing. Make the investment and it will come back in spades. Dont make the investment now wait another year or so until more money is raised and end up costing yourself all of the gains of the last four years. If the BOT doesnt pull the trigger on this and soon they should all be thrown out on their stupid asses as they will have proven to all of us that they either dont get it or dont care both of which should be reason to clean house. Sorry for the rant but if i hear one more God damn BS story about how this is on the fans and donors im going to puke.

 

[billsin01]

I completely agree that Syracuse has a "donor" issue which results in a capital shortfall re facilities. I also completely agree that other school's do fund their facilities primarily through friends of the program. The issue is that Syracuse's facilities are lacking and it makes it very difficult to recruit against top-35 caliber programs - an issue that I believe that Syracuse created for themselves by not properly investing in the program during the early Pasqualoni years.

However, the facilities shortfall exists and it is a problem. Syracuse will soon be playing a difficult ACC and OOC schedule. They can either wait for the FB program to come up with the cash for 3, 4, 5 years (during a period where conference realignment puts FB performance/commitment at a premium) or they can be creative and do things differently through a mix of third-party financing / general account loan to the AD / sponsorships etc. My preference is that they do the latter - recognizing that this is not the norm in college athletics - or increase the risk of being left out when the next round of realignment arrives.

Policies are policies until they no longer work for the institutions that developed the policies. Then they are changed and there are new policies. The idea that the university is balking at facility upgrades b/c it doesn't have donor support at this time is short-sighted. Maybe that worked really, really well in the past, but it's simply a new era. And, to be clear, I think the spending on facilities is gross and I don't donate a dime, but I'm realistic about what it takes to compete for the services of 17-year-old kids. You're either in or out.

 

[Jersey Orange]

This doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

There are almost no college HC jobs open right now. Maybe 1-2 will open up if someone jumps to the NFL. Are you suggesting that Marrone will certainly fill one of those 1-2, or will somehow get hired into a job that isn't currently open right now?

If he leaves for the NFL, I get it. But the college part makes no sense.

If 1-2 of those jobs opens up - I am suggesting that Marrone would (A) have a very good shot at either filling 1-2 of those jobs or (B) filling 1-2 of the jobs that a current staff leaves to take one of the prime jobs. Ultimately I think Doug gets an NFL job and is not returning.

Doug is a smart guy. If he was planning on returning to SU given the dream job statements he has made in the past, it would not play out this way. Either we would not hear about the NFL interviews, or Doug would be on record disputing the rumors in a public form to hedge downside damage if he did not get a job and returned to SU.

 

[MikeSU02]

Thanks for posting JO. Glad to have your input.

 

[supp]

None of this makes any sense. If things had become so bad, why not interview for one of the college jobs that opened up this year? Tennessee in particular? Is it more honorable to stay for the bowl game and then abandon the program? If the NFL is interested in a guy that goes 8-5 at Syracuse, then who's to say that 7-6 at Tennessee wouldn't garner the same interest? The issues he supposedly has with the admins here aren't new clearly, so we can't talk about this all popping up within the last few weeks. People want to say that his interest in the NFL is due to all these structural problems that the program has and it may have them but the idea that this is driving Marrone off to the NFL is nonsense. There doesn't have to be any direct cause and effect and there almost never is pure rational thinking at work in decisions like this.

There are problems here but you folks have gone off the deep end.

 

[dollarbill44]

I am also doubtful that he'd make a move like that. Just not in his character. I fear the board hysteria has infected the insiders too.

I don't think more than 1 or 2 college coaches get hired into the NFL this year. Regardless of all of the talk recently about how successful Pete Carroll has been going from college to the NFL, the overwhelming majority of times the NFL has gone that route, it has not panned out. It will take a very special college coach to make the jump and while I am really high on Marrone, he is not yet in that group of candidates, imo. That is certainly no knock on HCDM, because to me, the list of "special" college coaches is very short and is composed of guys like Nick Saban, Chip Kelly and Urban Meyer.

 

[supp]

If 1-2 of those jobs opens up - I am suggesting that Marrone would (A) have a very good shot at either filling 1-2 of those jobs or (B) filling 1-2 of the jobs that a current staff leaves to take one of the prime jobs. Ultimately I think Doug gets an NFL job and is not returning.

Doug is a smart guy. If he was planning on returning to SU given the dream job statements he has made in the past, it would not play out this way. Either we would not hear about the NFL interviews, or Doug would be on record disputing the rumors in a public form to hedge downside damage if he did not get a job and returned to SU.

I think it's impossible to keep things like this under wraps these days, even if folks wanted to. Second, he doesn't need to deny rumors of interviewing for the NFL. Even he himself said that rumors of NFL interest can have an upside for recruiting. He only needs to deny rumors of his unhappiness in this job driving his interest in the NFL. As far as I know, that hasn't come up yet. Again, his interest in the league doesn't necessarily mean that he's had it here. He might be frustrated by aspects of the job but that doesn't mean that he's no longer willing to do it.

 

[Nick44]

I don't think more than 1 or 2 college coaches get hired into the NFL this year. Regardless of all of the talk recently about how successful Pete Carroll has been going from college to the NFL, the overwhelming majority of times the NFL has gone that route, it has not panned out. It will take a very special college coach to make the jump and while I am really high on Marrone, he is not yet in that group of candidates, imo. That is certainly no knock on HCDM, because to me, the list of "special" college coaches is very short and is composed of guys like Nick Saban, Chip Kelly and Urban Meyer.

You know why it hasn't panned out? Because too often, NFL teams fall for the successful college coaches ala Nick Saban who obtain that success by building teams stacked with talent. Not saying Nick Saban isn't a great coach but the talent that he has accumulated largely attributed to his success. As opposed to a coach like DM, who built his success based on player development, excellent game planning etc.

Jimbo Fisher is a great example from last night. A team that won solely based on recruitment of superior talent. Coaching was average at best. If he ever got an NFL HC job, that would be a disaster.

 

[shandeezy7]

I have no idea how this stuff works but I'm not sure I quite understand why a massive influx in TV cash wouldn't allow them to start working on financing a facilities upgrade on their own while they work to -- over the next several years/decade -- develop donor relationships to help with these projects going forward. I know that the university apparently has some sort of policy that a certain percentage has to be raised privately, etc., but this is a new era of massive spending on facilities/coaches, etc. and it might require some changes to those policies. I believe CTO cited the hoops team and the law school and others, but it's pretty clear that football stands alone as a cash cow these days.

Not only does the University most likely have a policy on percentages of capital expenditures that need to be funded by private donors, but also, if SU funds these capital expenditures through a bond issuance (which many private academic institutions do), then there is probably a percentage requirement for actual cash in hand before construction can begin on a project. So if SU needs to cultivate significant donors to this project for "several years/decade," then the likelihood of actual construction on such a facility could be years out. Now I have no knowledge of the University's current fundraising status for this project, so perhaps they are already near or at the base-line amount of funding. Who knows?

 

[orangeinjersey]

You know why it hasn't panned out? Because too often, NFL teams fall for the successful college coaches ala Nick Saban who obtain that success by building teams stacked with talent. Not saying Nick Saban isn't a great coach but the talent that he has accumulated largely attributed to his success. As opposed to a coach like DM, who built his success based on player development, excellent game planning etc.

Jimbo Fisher is a great example from last night. A team that won solely based on recruitment of superior talent. Coaching was average at best. If he ever got an NFL HC job, that would be a disaster.

Bingo. In the NFL, there is a relative even field that everyone adheres too, which is not the case in college, where Alabama, Oregon etc can shower recruits with amentities outside their scholarship.

 

[SmilinBob]

You know why it hasn't panned out? Because too often, NFL teams fall for the successful college coaches ala Nick Saban who obtain that success by building teams stacked with talent. Not saying Nick Saban isn't a great coach but the talent that he has accumulated largely attributed to his success. As opposed to a coach like DM, who built his success based on player development, excellent game planning etc.

Jimbo Fisher is a great example from last night. A team that won solely based on recruitment of superior talent. Coaching was average at best. If he ever got an NFL HC job, that would be a disaster.

I agree 100% with that. It's one thing when you can get 5 star type players galore but when it's an even playing field, the better coach will get you a lot farther. Little nicky can over sign and make illegal cuts while those who follow the rules don't. There's a reason why coaches like that just up and run away from the NFL.

 

[CusefanATL]

This is very true.

very true as in he almost left?
or very true this is the 1st you heard of it?

i am very confused. and that is very true.

 

[Chip]

If 1-2 of those jobs opens up - I am suggesting that Marrone would (A) have a very good shot at either filling 1-2 of those jobs or (B) filling 1-2 of the jobs that a current staff leaves to take one of the prime jobs. Ultimately I think Doug gets an NFL job and is not returning.

Doug is a smart guy. If he was planning on returning to SU given the dream job statements he has made in the past, it would not play out this way. Either we would not hear about the NFL interviews, or Doug would be on record disputing the rumors in a public form to hedge downside damage if he did not get a job and returned to SU.

But why would he take another college job? Because SU can't compete on a facilities level with the big boys? This wouldn't imply that he's a smart guy, because everyone knew this. Only a dumb guy wouldn't. For the record, I don't think Doug is a dumb guy. At all.

If he leaves for an NFL job, great. It's the pinnacle. But leaving for another college job? That would kinda make him full of .

And, for the record, I don't think he's full of .

 

[Scooch]

If 1-2 of those jobs opens up - I am suggesting that Marrone would (A) have a very good shot at either filling 1-2 of those jobs or (B) filling 1-2 of the jobs that a current staff leaves to take one of the prime jobs. Ultimately I think Doug gets an NFL job and is not returning.

Doug is a smart guy. If he was planning on returning to SU given the dream job statements he has made in the past, it would not play out this way. Either we would not hear about the NFL interviews, or Doug would be on record disputing the rumors in a public form to hedge downside damage if he did not get a job and returned to SU.

OK, fair enough. You basically think it's a lock that he gets an NFL HC offer then, right? Because if you're certain he won't be back those college scenarios involve a lot of unpredictable moving pieces.

Also seems strange that no insiders here have hinted that he is feeling that insurmountably bad about being at SU. I mean you make it sound like he hates the place now and wants to be anywhere else, right? That's something that I would assume might have come up prior to a week ago.

Just think it's odd that this hit the fan so quickly and violently. As Chip just said, if he's THAT down on SU why didn't he vigorously pursue the dozens of open jobs there were 4 weeks ago?