mcw and the nba

[Mr. M]

I'll take Ennis and his shooting ability over MCW next year anyway.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Agree with all you guys and the 35

Good stuff RF. Its hard for me to see super stardom ahead for MCW with his jump shot and lack of lateral quickness. However, his size will keep him employed on an NBA bench for at least a couple of go-rounds. He has always reminded me of a 35% less dynamic Shawn Livingston (pre injury).

I think that sounds about right. The 35% less dynamic Livingston part. I like it.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Hoo boy...

This is going to sound like a knock, but I think I agree with you in terms of his game and physical maturity [or relative lack therof] RIGHT NOW. Doesn't mean that won't change.

I've been pretty hard on our point guards throughout the years on this forum, in large part because many of them play erratically and don't always do the things lead guards do to make their teams "better." In some cases, that's an experiential thing. Scoop was infuriating at times with some of the unforced mistakes--and I am way more lenient on errors of commission than those of omission. For example, a PG who makes a nice lead pass that just is out of reach of a streaking player on a fast break that they just can't quite catch up with I tend not to get upset about as someone forcing an ill advised lob pass or leave their feet with nowhere to go.

Make no mistake: MCW is a good player, and his best basketball is ahead of him. But he is far from the transcendent talent that some billed him as earlier in the year, when he was taking apart the easier opponents on our schedule. Even then, there were tendencies he had where I suspected that he would have difficulty getting away with some of those passes against higher quality opponents. And I think right now, at his current stage on the developmental curve, teams are exploiting his shooting limitations / inconsistency. That's something that would improve given another off-season of development; ditto his lead guard aptitude, with a whole year of starts under his belt.

But MCW is a 21 year old sophomore, there's no way I expect him to come back. Also factor in the weak draft class, and it is almost a no-brainer for him to come out. Sucks, but its reality.

Totally agree and I was strictly talking about him now or short term. I know he is good and will improve but am unsure about him at the next level even though I know he should bolt now vs later.

 

[moqui]

Good stuff RF. Its hard for me to see super stardom ahead for MCW with his jump shot and lack of lateral quickness. However, his size will keep him employed on an NBA bench for at least a couple of go-rounds. He has always reminded me of a 35% less dynamic Shawn Livingston (pre injury).

of course, Livingston himself is about 65% less dynamic than he was pre-injury, and has nonetheless earned over $20 million across 8 seasons

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

of course, Livingston himself is about 65% less dynamic than he was pre-injury, and has nonetheless earned over $20 million across 8 seasons

Much like a long tongue and blonde hair in a strip club... height and long arms will get you everywhere in the NBA.

 

[Knicks411]

I'll take Ennis and his shooting ability over MCW next year anyway.

The same thing I was saying about getting more tape and finding flaws on college kids works with with our recruits too. They pretty much never have any flaws when they are playing in high school, but when they get to college and they are playing better players and we see them every every game, the flaws creep up.

People couldn't wait to push Scoop out the door cause we had MCW, now we don't need MCW cause Ennis is coming in next year.

 

[moqui]

I'll take Ennis and his shooting ability over MCW next year anyway.

the eternal lure of the unpainted canvass . . .

 

[NineOneSeven]

I'll take Ennis and his shooting ability over MCW next year anyway.

Because what these kids are known to be good at translates so extremely well immedietely in college . Mr. M, meet Trevor Cooney, Fab Melo, Dajuan Coleman, Rakeem Christmas, to name a few.

Not knocking our players, just stating how it's silly to make such conclusions before we have seen an exhibition game.

 

[Tobias Funke]

I'll take Ennis and his shooting ability over MCW next year anyway.

Be careful what you wish for. Ennis is an unproven commodity at the High major Division 1 level. He will be a starting True Freshman, you may be wishing you had MCW back by ACC play. It is the Syracuse fan viscious cycle.

 

[Melancer46]

Because what these kids are known to be good at translates so extremely well immedietely in college . Mr. M, meet Trevor Cooney, Fab Melo, Dajuan Coleman, Rakeem Christmas, to name a few.

Not knocking our players, just stating how it's silly to make such conclusions before we have seen an exhibition game.

And Michael Carter-Williams too. In high school, he was known as a shooter and a scorer and passing was a weakness for him.

 

[NineOneSeven]

And Michael Carter-Williams too. In high school, he was known as a shooter and a scorer and passing was a weakness for him.

Here's the thing with Coleman. I've seen him play at JD (went to FM, local high schools). In high school he absolutely dominated. He was a man inside, and honestly even knocked down some threes. He has good footwork and has shown glimpses this year. But, he's undersized. At JD, 6'8" was massive for opponents to handle. Many local high schools have 6'4" or less centers. In division 1, that is undersized, and it shows. All the time people are telling him to stop the dribble inside and just go up strong. He does that dribble to try to create space. Notice how many of his shots seem to be rifled off the glass? It's because he is worried about getting blocked and hence uses more force than necessary.

He will get better. He will develop head fakes and learn to use his frame more, but it's been a tough adjustment period. I can guarantee no one is more "annoyed" by his play than he is.

 

[Melancer46]

Here's the thing with Coleman. I've seen him play at JD (went to FM, local high schools). In high school he absolutely dominated. He was a man inside, and honestly even knocked down some threes. He has good footwork and has shown glimpses this year. But, he's undersized. At JD, 6'8" was massive for opponents to handle. Many local high schools have 6'4" or less centers. In division 1, that is undersized, and it shows. All the time people are telling him to stop the dribble inside and just go up strong. He does that dribble to try to create space. Notice how many of his shots seem to be rifled off the glass? It's because he is worried about getting blocked and hence uses more force than necessary.

He will get better. He will develop head fakes and learn to use his frame more, but it's been a tough adjustment period. I can guarantee no one is more "annoyed" by his play than he is.

I think he's gonna be a good one too. He doesn't need to use that dribble to create space. With his wide body, he can shield the defender off and just extend his arm away from the defender and lay it in on a lot of his plays that he's had underneath this season.

I hope Boeheim gives him some playing time when he finally comes back. We really need him IMO, but Boeheim has never seemed to agree with that.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I think he's gonna be a good one too. He doesn't need to use that dribble to create space. With his wide body, he can shield the defender off and just extend his arm away from the defender and lay it in on a lot of his plays that he's had underneath this season.

I hope Boeheim gives him some playing time when he finally comes back. We really need him IMO, but Boeheim has never seemed to agree with that.

I see a ceiling of someone like Dejuan Blair in terms of rebounding, and a "Zach Randolph" in the sense of undersized, but has a touch and finishes around the rim using his body and soft hands. Time will tell.

Coleman freshman year >>>>> fab freshman year.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Its so hard to be able to discern which of these highly touted HS kids can come in...have their confidence shattered, but still be able to pick it up and contribute that first year. Not all kids have the mental make up to handle the "being knocked down a peg" first month when the games start. Takes a year to get through that sometimes unless you are just an uber stud.

 

[br801]

yep . . . his age is the the key factor. it makes it almost certain that he can only hurt himself by coming back - as a 22 year old who would be 23 before he played his first pro game, he would almost certainly slide to the back half of the first round.

unless he has a terrible stretch run and post season . . . and nobody wants to wish for that, do they?

I'm sure no one in the history of this board has ever rooted against an SU player.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I find this to be a terrible assessment. People love to act like the goal is to somehow trick NBA GMs into drafting you in the lottery. That staying one millisecond past the moment you have tricked that first guy is too long. This entire argument is based on the idea that no player is truly good enough or works hard enough to be a legit lottery pick.

Under this logic, LeBron would not have been a lottery pick if he went to college. Riiiight.

Different sport, but Matt Barkley played himself out of a top 10 pick.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk 2

 

[Marsh01]

Coleman freshman year >>>>> fab freshman year.

I want to see Coleman sophmore year>>>>>Fab Sophmore year. That to me will tell you how hard he worked in the off season.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Sometimes those big fish from small ponds just don't pan out at the next level. I certainly hope that is not the case with DC and TC.

 

[CusefanATL]

I find this to be a terrible assessment. People love to act like the goal is to somehow trick NBA GMs into drafting you in the lottery. That staying one millisecond past the moment you have tricked that first guy is too long. This entire argument is based on the idea that no player is truly good enough or works hard enough to be a legit lottery pick.

Under this logic, LeBron would not have been a lottery pick if he went to college. Riiiight.

You are waaaaaaaaaay off base here. Especially with the Lebron comparison. Way off. I don't even need to get into Lebron, because its just silly.

But I will give you a list of people who hurt themselves staying in college:

1. Rondo cost him a year and 20 picks. But it ultimately set him up on the perfect team. That's not the point though, that's just pure luck - can never count on being in the perfect situation. Still cost him millions.
2. Paul Harris - cost him a lot
3. Harrison Barnes was so recent, how do u forget?

People who 'tricked' gm's on taking the flyer:
1. Kwame. No way he goes top 10 if he went to college
2. Marvin Williams - he would have lost all hype the second he had to be a man on a team. He is similar to triche. Nice role player... Not top 20 pick. Can never be the man on a team. Just not in them.

There are plenty of others. I quickly typed this up with no research. Give me 20 min and ill find a million people.

The point is that the NBA is all about the future. They lean VERY HeAVILY toward projects rather than older mature players. It's just the nature of the beast and because of it, it is often smarter to go pro than stay in college. Obviously there are exceptions. But Dion prob wouldn't be a top 5 pick this year. Even if he stayed and went #5 this year, he would have cost him a year in earnings and a year closer to a big contract.

Don't hate the kids... Hate the teams for drafting them. It dilutes the NBA and it CRUSHES the college game.

 

[CusefanATL]

Looks like I may have been a little off with Rondo... Blew up with the NBA in between his fresh and soph year during USA team.

I just remember seeing him listed as a possible #1 pick going into his soph year and him and the team being a bust for tubby.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I want to see Coleman sophmore year>>>>>Fab Sophmore year. That to me will tell you how hard he worked in the off season.

Cheers to that.

 

[CaliCuse]

everyone seems to think that mcw is definitely leaving after this season. my question is this: if he knew all along that he was going to enter the draft following just one season where he logged serious playing time, then why did he choose su?

he had to have realized that he wasn't going to play much given the team's depth at the guard position in 2011/12, so why didn't he go to another big-time school where he would've been the focal point of the offense, and then leave after his freshman year?
I think he has far too many holes in his game.Come back next year and maybe win a Div 1 NC. I suspect $ is the prime motivator for this person. Hello Mr Ennis.Welcome to the team. Maybe you will be the one. to get the second NC for Jimmy and the fans.

 

[IthacaMatt]

everyone seems to think that mcw is definitely leaving after this season. my question is this: if he knew all along that he was going to enter the draft following just one season where he logged serious playing time, then why did he choose su?

he had to have realized that he wasn't going to play much given the team's depth at the guard position in 2011/12, so why didn't he go to another big-time school where he would've been the focal point of the offense, and then leave after his freshman year?

did he somehow get THAT much better between his freshman and sophomore years?

Because he played with Trevor and Rak on his AAU team, and they were among the best in the country. He probably thought he would play a bit more as a frosh, but he saw that Scoop was only going to be here 1 more year, and all players do benefit from learning from more experienced guys around them as they step up a level, even those who think they are going to be pros shortly.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Waiters was not going to be invited back.

Sent using my Commodore 64

Regardless, Waiters was not going to start at PG, so I don't see that that necessarily had any effect on getting MCW in the first place.

 

[rrlbees]

Regardless, Waiters was not going to start at PG, so I don't see that that necessarily had any effect on getting MCW in the first place.

but mcw may have thought it would be a 3 guard rotation, like it was but with him included. he and triche could have played both guard spots.