Meathead Football

[IthacaBarrel]

There are lots of big uglies in central and western NY.

with 6.5 speed and they play for Fisher and SUNY Cortland

 

[PatMark]

Public address system crackles

"Could you please send PatMark down to the main office? The air raid would like to speak with him. Thank you."

Public address system crackles

Ah yes, the infamous Air Raid offense. We are running a bastardized version of this already. Mesh, four verts, quick screens - all a staple of Dino's offenses over the past few years. With the exception of Oklahoma, who has their choice of recruits at every position, the Air Raid hasn't been all that successful.

 

[Pyle]

Yes these glory years that you speak of that produced one good offense in 2012! That offense threw the ball a ton as well, could beat you with run or pass but other than that not seeing it

We've been to bowl games 3 out of the 7 years we ran those systems since P was fired. In the other 9 years that we've tried it the other way we've been to 1.

 

[Chip]

There are countless teams using the same system or a slight variation

Yep. But it’s not what Coach Edsallazzio does.

 

[TheCusian]

We've been to bowl games 3 out of the 7 years we ran those systems since P was fired. In the other 9 years that we've tried it the other way we've been to 1.

Dino would have fielded bowl games those years too. Big East schedule and 1 of those years they played two FCS teams

Shafer’s bowl year is an underrated season for sure

—-

Point is this... we don’t get the big NE OL like PITT and BC (I think we can still do better but our history says otherwise) and we don’t have access to consistent offensive pieces (think FL and GA) to just outrun people. What do we have besides an island of misfit toys? The dome, perfect conditions for half your games. And it’s still something that can be a major advantage by this HC or the next. Going full meathead is dumb for a thousand reasons (same with triple option) but chief among them is not taking advantage of the passing conditions.

 

[TheCusian]

Ah yes, the infamous Air Raid offense. We are running a bastardized version of this already. Mesh, four verts, quick screens - all a staple of Dino's offenses over the past few years. With the exception of Oklahoma, who has their choice of recruits at every position, the Air Raid hasn't been all that successful.

It’s the same thing as the WCO offense in the 90’s early 2000’s. It’s successful, oc’s start pulling it apart and riffing on it. *Everyone* is running a bastardized version of WCO and Air Raid all over the place

only here are people nostalgic for the wish bone

 

[PatMark]

It’s the same thing as the WCO offense in the 90’s early 2000’s. It’s successful, oc’s start pulling it apart and riffing on it. *Everyone* is running a bastardized version of WCO and Air Raid all over the place

only here are people nostalgic for the wish bone

You are 100% correct. All these offenses are just buzz words that people like to use. At the end of the day, it comes down to fitting your personnel. It's on the coaches to figure out what their guys do well and adjust. We've seen some hesitation from Dino to do this.

 

[Pyle]

Dino would have fielded bowl games those years too. Big East schedule and 1 of those years they played two FCS teams

Shafer’s bowl year is an underrated season for sure

—-

Point is this... we don’t get the big NE OL like PITT and BC (I think we can still do better but our history says otherwise) and we don’t have access to consistent offensive pieces (think FL and GA) to just outrun people. What do we have besides an island of misfit toys? The dome, perfect conditions for half your games. And it’s still something that can be a major advantage by this HC or the next. Going full meathead is dumb for a thousand reasons (same with triple option) but chief among them is not taking advantage of the passing conditions.

BS, when we want those guys we get them... like Pugh, Tiller, Hickey, Trudo, etc

 

[TheCusian]

BS, when we want those guys we get them... like Pugh, Tiller, Hickey, Trudo, etc

I’m sure Dino hasn’t wanted better OL or maybe he didn’t say please or something

 

[Alsacs]

Our offense needs Marcus Sales, Alec Lemon, Steve Ishmael, Erv Philips, hell Sean Riley types at WR.

Harris, Johnson have to up their games.
#14 is a player at WR though.

 

[TheCusian]

You are 100% correct. All these offenses are just buzz words that people like to use. At the end of the day, it comes down to fitting your personnel. It's on the coaches to figure out what their guys do well and adjust. We've seen some hesitation from Dino to do this.

That's where I think we're more snakebit at OL the last two seasons more than anything else. It makes everything look worse.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Ah yes, the infamous Air Raid offense. We are running a bastardized version of this already. Mesh, four verts, quick screens - all a staple of Dino's offenses over the past few years.

I agree that we would be more successful making a greater commitment to air raid than running a bastardized version.

 

[money3189]

Here let me define gimmick: An offense with no playbook that takes 2.5 years to learn with only 5 base plays with multiple variations that the QB has to correctly read pre-snap in order to work. If you don't like gimmick, fine, pick another word, 'unique'?

Yeah I brought up Gerg. He treid to force an offense that his personnel wasn't capable of running...No I don't think we are Gerg level bad but we also aren't successful and we're doing the same thing. When Gerg got fired everyone said you can't do that here, you have to recruit the blue bloods and play NE football. Ss we got Marrone and he was successful, and then we had Shafer and he wasn't so everyone said we needed an offense 'suited' to the Dome again. It's BS.

Pre and post snap reads are used by most offensives. Its the tempo that hurts us. The up tempo has kept are defenses on the field way too long. That kills us especially when we are not scoring in the process.

 

[Crusty]

BS, when we want those guys we get them... like Pugh, Tiller, Hickey, Trudo, etc

Problem is we don't get enough of them. Years go by when we have none of them.

 

[shu 49]

Elmore has been our best OL this season by far. Kudos to him and the staff for getting creative putting him there despite the obvious size issues.

Pyle nailed this point. There is no "offense suited for the Dome." That is a cop out. We need an offense, AND A STAFF, that will utilize their personnel in a way that suits what we have now. Forcing a no huddle offense predicated on quick RPOs when we don't have the speed or physicality on the outside or inside is never going to work.

We don’t rpo anymore. When was the last time we did. Dungey to Harris for Td In ten win season. We don’t read ends even really anymore on option. If we actually rpo’d, we wouldn’t have backers coming so fast downhill. The o isn’t what it was. Most nfl teams run trips or twins and pick off each other. Sometimes no one splits wide even.

 

[TexanMark]

There are lots of big uglies in central and western NY.

Let's not bring up my 1am dance partners at the old college bars please.

 

[CousCuse]

Dino would have fielded bowl games those years too. Big East schedule and 1 of those years they played two FCS teams

Shafer’s bowl year is an underrated season for sure

—-

Point is this... we don’t get the big NE OL like PITT and BC (I think we can still do better but our history says otherwise) and we don’t have access to consistent offensive pieces (think FL and GA) to just outrun people. What do we have besides an island of misfit toys? The dome, perfect conditions for half your games. And it’s still something that can be a major advantage by this HC or the next. Going full meathead is dumb for a thousand reasons (same with triple option) but chief among them is not taking advantage of the passing conditions.

This ideal passing condition narrative doesn't take into account that we are playing other teams, ACC teams with very talented defenses. If SU went to OSU, or Alabama or Oklahoma on a perfect fall day, would the conditions matter more than the opponent. I think that's a blind spot in this argument.

 

[money3189]

We don’t rpo anymore. When was the last time we did. Dungey to Harris for Td In ten win season. We don’t read ends even really anymore on option. If we actually rpo’d, we wouldn’t have backers coming so fast downhill. The o isn’t what it was. Most nfl teams run trips or twins and pick off each other. Sometimes no one splits wide even.

I agree they run less RPO's but I think a big reason is because of their inability to run the ball effectively. Can't put defenders in conflict if they don't have to worry about the run.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This ideal passing condition narrative doesn't take into account that we are playing other teams, ACC teams with very talented defenses. If SU went to OSU, or Alabama or Oklahoma on a perfect fall day, would the conditions matter more than the opponent. I think that's a blind spot in this argument.

So what?

 

[Chip]

So what?

So what? So let's dance!

 

[CousCuse]

So what?

That's why this logic is a fail. That's what so.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Let's not bring up my 1am dance partners at the old college bars please.

1st thing i thought of was...lets leave the women out of this.

cant believe it took so long before someone made that comment.

this whole place has gone soft...

 

[OrangePA]

I brought my sunglasses so throw as much shade as you want. Both times we have tried an offense 'suited to the dome'(WCO, Air Raid) it has not worked out well for us. The concept is spot on, we have the perfect environment...inside. What about outside? Can we get the speedsters to come up North and play for us? Doesn't seem like it. As a matter of fact we've actually seen our worst offensive outputs from these systems.

We play our best football when forget about the stupid Dome 'advantage' and recruit the blue collar NE and mid-west kids we have in the past. I see people saying we can't recruit here. Delone Carter came here and was a stud. When we weren't using gimmicky offenses we got guys like Pugh and Tiller on the line. It works for Pitt, it works for BC and it has worked for us. You want to be consistently good? Then we need to run an offense we can consistently recruit for in CNY. Defense and ball control is a proven formula. Lightning fast 3 and outs is not.

We will never produce a dominant OL so we have to fool the opponent.

So, give me option football - misdirection - motion - a solid mix of the run and pass.

 

[RoatanCuse]

Elmore has been our best OL this season by far. Kudos to him and the staff for getting creative putting him there despite the obvious size issues.

Pyle nailed this point. There is no "offense suited for the Dome." That is a cop out. We need an offense, AND A STAFF, that will utilize their personnel in a way that suits what we have now. Forcing a no huddle offense predicated on quick RPOs when we don't have the speed or physicality on the outside or inside is never going to work.

Sean Lewis.

 

[Pyle]

So what?
[/QUOTE

We will never produce a dominant OL so we have to fool the opponent.

So, give me option football - misdirection - motion - a solid mix of the run and pass.

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it so. Although maybe you're right about dominant, but we can be damn good and have been in the past. And I realize it's not 1970 anymore and we aren't trotting out the wishbone. Nobody said not to use misdirection, etc. Fact is the current offense is broken and puts the defense back on the field way too quickly way too often. Both times we have tried to move to fast high scoring offense it hasn't worked, at least not yet. If you look at the past 18 years(9 years of WCO/AirRaid, 9 years of more traditional ball control), then you see that we've been to 1 bowl game in 9 years of WCO/AirRaid and 4 bowls in 9 years using what we would consider more traditional NE style football. That's just over 10% vs almost 50%.