Micron - Let’s try this again

[JeremyCuse]

Putting aside the concern about what their lenders might say ("NO"), converting 60,000 to 90,000 square foot floor plates to residential is no easy feat.

Good point, plus there is usually a ton of zoning issues that crop up as that area is almost assuredly not zoned for residential living. Also any potential living space that was ultimately agreed upon would be of the highest of high end, Pyramid isn't putting in anything remotely resembling affordable housing. Hard to see how this would be remotely viable.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I think they're openminded but got caught in a perfect storm. So now they're white-knuckling their way while hoping that aquarium construction and housing developments can bridge the gap until their project (still heavily entertainment-focused, but possibly with some of the medical, etc. uses mentioned here) is stabilized.

What project?

 

[JeremyCuse]

I think they're openminded but got caught in a perfect storm. So now they're white-knuckling their way while hoping that aquarium construction and housing developments can bridge the gap until their project (still heavily entertainment-focused, but possibly with some of the medical, etc. uses mentioned here) is stabilized.

Ya I think their only real option is to try and white knuckle this thing as long as possible and hope something changes via overall interest via increased pop as you noted or some mixed use project pops up that makes sense. The expanded section of the mall seems to still be going relatively strong but some of the original parts are clearly past the glory years and large sections like The former JC Penny, Best Buy and others are essentially unrentable.

I don't see housing being a viable option as while the market is scorching hot right now, it would take years for any housing to come online even if Destiny wanted to go that route and could start now. I am also not sure how much demand there would be for sky high rents at Destiny. Living at a mall sounds good if your 17 or 22 but the novelty would likely wear off quick. Medical offices also seem somewhat realistic but there are already a number for facilities, business parks etc with space available, not sure there is a huge demand for more.

Destiny's best bet maybe to come up with some agreement with Syracuse Univ or Micron or partner with someone else to use some of that large available space and to think outside the box. What exactly that is I am not sure but they definitely need to think outside the box. If they could find away to attract people in the summer and fall when the weather is good with some sort of inside/outside combo that could help but again what exactly that is or could be is hard to say. Tomcat noted pickleball courts which is an interesting idea, maybe a mix sports concept could work.

 

[Newhouser]

The egos involved at Destiny will have to be dragged into saying the mall failed, and they need to pivot.

 

[orangenauburn]

Ya I think their only real option is to try and white knuckle this thing as long as possible and hope something changes via overall interest via increased pop as you noted or some mixed use project pops up that makes sense. The expanded section of the mall seems to still be going relatively strong but some of the original parts are clearly past the glory years and large sections like The former JC Penny, Best Buy and others are essentially unrentable.

I don't see housing being a viable option as while the market is scorching hot right now, it would take years for any housing to come online even if Destiny wanted to go that route and could start now. I am also not sure how much demand there would be for sky high rents at Destiny. Living at a mall sounds good if your 17 or 22 but the novelty would likely wear off quick. Medical offices also seem somewhat realistic but there are already a number for facilities, business parks etc with space available, not sure there is a huge demand for more.

Destiny's best bet maybe to come up with some agreement with Syracuse Univ or Micron or partner with someone else to use some of that large available space and to think outside the box. What exactly that is I am not sure but they definitely need to think outside the box. If they could find away to attract people in the summer and fall when the weather is good with some sort of inside/outside combo that could help but again what exactly that is or could be is hard to say. Tomcat noted pickleball courts which is an interesting idea, maybe a mix sports concept could work.

Someone else mentioned above, but indoor / outdoor courts and fields for youth tournaments

 

[NJCuse97]

In Rochester they converted part of Marketplace mall into a medical facility.

My old company was the architect. Was a Sears, is now University of Rochester ambulatory Orthopedic Center. I worked at Perkins&Will

UR Medicine Opens Region's First Ambulatory Orthopaedic Surgery Center

UR Medicine opens the region's first ambulatory surgery center dedicated to orthopaedic procedures, part of a multi-year, $227 million project to build one of the nation's largest campuses for orthopaedic care.

www.urmc.rochester.edu

UR Medicine Orthopaedics and Physical Performance Center - University of Rochester Medical Center

www.urmc.rochester.edu

SLAM and Perkins&Will unveil community healthcare hub in suburban mall

(Rochester, N.Y) – Architect of record SLAM (The S/L/A/M Collaborative), along with project partner and design architect Perkins&Will, unveil plans for the new University of Rochester Orthopaedics &

www.slamcoll.com

 

[GoSU96]

They are never going to convert parts of the mall to apartments. That’s insane.

 

[Sudano]

They are never going to convert parts of the mall to apartments. That’s insane.

No but with such large parking lots new apartments or homes can be built on the land and parts if not all of the mall can be torn down or new residential buildings can be attached to it. They are doing it all over the country. Repurposing parts if not all of the land. Residential, Medical, Mall, other businesses, governmental, manufacturing

 

[anomander]

I just want the Great Northern Mall to reopen.

There was no mall, and I mean ever, like Fairmount Fair mall. Franco’s had the absolute BEST pizza EVER. Definite 10 on Portnoy’s scale. Perfectly thin, crisp crust, with a nice bite of cheese where you have to hold the pizza over the head so you can bite down the stretched cheese. Absolutely to die for. I had more Franco’s pizza I can still taste it to this day. Before that it getting orange julius, which was right next door. Nothing like getting an orange julius then 2 slices of always fresh cheese from Franco’s. Would then usually head to Record Town. I remember I was in 4th grade and I convinced my mom to let me but Cypress Hill’s first cassette. When I would go with my friends we would also go to Franco’s, Orange Julius, Record Town,
and then they had a pretty nice arcade and Kay Bee Toys for some garbage pal kids cards. The best part was when they would have the sports card shows where vendors would purchase a table and you would have most of the mall filled with sports card vendors. For a HUGE sports card collector like myself when I was a kid in the early and mid 80’s it was like Christmas in Summer. I would find the schedule and never miss a show. Unfortunately, my friends and I weren’t enough to keep Fairmount Fair mall from going under. It really was a great mall, with beautiful water fountains, but the death was Destiny, which is a whole other story.

My first job out of college was working in finance and eventually leasing for Pyramid. What an absolute $heeet show, and a total rip off for tenants. Those leases were worded so shady that these tenants, who were already paying well over market value, would get hit annually with “Tax adjustments”, “CAM (Common Area Maintenance) adjustments”, “Insurance adjustments”, and “Energy Adjustments”. They always seemed to add up to an extra $100k annually for big box tenants and close to $40-50k for just your average shoppe. They were already getting bludgeoned with Rent and other charges, but these surprise “Adjustment” charges always seemed to favor the house and put many of stores out of business and they still don’t understand how these were calculated. They also ran the business straight out of the 60’s with intimidating upper management, who would berate, and dress down employees in front of co-workers. They made everyone show up at 630am for “Leasing Meetings”’even though I was in finance and didn’t pertain to me at the time. They also insisted that everyone where a suit and tie even though we sat upstairs in a dusty bowl pen where the 10 of us would stare at each other all day, not seeing anyone from the outside world. I was assured by more experienced workers that this was not a normal business, but i didn’t know any better being a 23 year old kid with his first job out of college. End of rant that was the worst place i have ever worked and it’s amazing anyone willing signs a lease with them. They’ll file for bankruptcy soon. The portfolio of malls have only got worse. Now back to reminiscing about Fairmount Fair. It was even fun when it was basically mall
walkers as all the stores eventually closed one after the other.

My old company was the architect. Was a Sears, is now University of Rochester ambulatory Orthopedic Center. I worked at Perkins&Will

UR Medicine Opens Region's First Ambulatory Orthopaedic Surgery Center

UR Medicine opens the region's first ambulatory surgery center dedicated to orthopaedic procedures, part of a multi-year, $227 million project to build one of the nation's largest campuses for orthopaedic care.

www.urmc.rochester.edu

UR Medicine Orthopaedics and Physical Performance Center - University of Rochester Medical Center

www.urmc.rochester.edu

SLAM and Perkins&Will unveil community healthcare hub in suburban mall

(Rochester, N.Y) – Architect of record SLAM (The S/L/A/M Collaborative), along with project partner and design architect Perkins&Will, unveil plans for the new University of Rochester Orthopaedics &

www.slamcoll.com

Univ. of Rochester Medical Center is a huge customer of mine! Much more profitable than Sears

 

[FrancoPizza]

Franco’s had the absolute BEST pizza EVER. Definite 10 on Portnoy’s scale.

Glad someone remembers me fondly.

On that note if the moderator would kindly add an “apostrophe s” to my name that would be appreciated. I was limited by character count but see that others were given exemptions.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Glad someone remembers me fondly.

On that note if the moderator would kindly add an “apostrophe s” to my name that would be appreciated. I was limited by character count but see that others were given exemptions.

Franco’s was damn good pizza. Thanks for anomander for a trip down memory lane. My experience at record town was buying ice cube’s americas most wanted cassette while my mom was in another store. She didn’t know I bought it, I taped it to my stomach so she wouldn’t catch me with it. Good times

 

[sutomcat]

Good point, plus there is usually a ton of zoning issues that crop up as that area is almost assuredly not zoned for residential living. Also any potential living space that was ultimately agreed upon would be of the highest of high end, Pyramid isn't putting in anything remotely resembling affordable housing. Hard to see how this would be remotely viable.

If the government wants housing to be there, zoning is not not going to be a problem.

I could see a scenario where Pyramid agrees to add housing to the mall or somewhere on its property if it helps prevent them from losing the mall to bankruptcy.

Are things that desperate now? I don't know. Guessing they have to be close to defaulting right now on their loans.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[SUbear]

Point Place Casino expanding. Surely some of those Micron folks like to gamble.

Oneida Indian Nation To Expand Point Place Casino

BRIDGEPORT, NY – The Oneida Indian Nation has announced that Point Place Casino will undergo a large-scale expansion in the coming months.

www.indiangaming.com

I hope it includes a small poker room at least. That is all I play.

 

[JeremyCuse]

There was no mall, and I mean ever, like Fairmount Fair mall. Franco’s had the absolute BEST pizza EVER. Definite 10 on Portnoy’s scale. Perfectly thin, crisp crust, with a nice bite of cheese where you have to hold the pizza over the head so you can bite down the stretched cheese. Absolutely to die for. I had more Franco’s pizza I can still taste it to this day. Before that it getting orange julius, which was right next door. Nothing like getting an orange julius then 2 slices of always fresh cheese from Franco’s. Would then usually head to Record Town. I remember I was in 4th grade and I convinced my mom to let me but Cypress Hill’s first cassette. When I would go with my friends we would also go to Franco’s, Orange Julius, Record Town,
and then they had a pretty nice arcade and Kay Bee Toys for some garbage pal kids cards. The best part was when they would have the sports card shows where vendors would purchase a table and you would have most of the mall filled with sports card vendors. For a HUGE sports card collector like myself when I was a kid in the early and mid 80’s it was like Christmas in Summer. I would find the schedule and never miss a show. Unfortunately, my friends and I weren’t enough to keep Fairmount Fair mall from going under. It really was a great mall, with beautiful water fountains, but the death was Destiny, which is a whole other story.

My first job out of college was working in finance and eventually leasing for Pyramid. What an absolute $heeet show, and a total rip off for tenants. Those leases were worded so shady that these tenants, who were already paying well over market value, would get hit annually with “Tax adjustments”, “CAM (Common Area Maintenance) adjustments”, “Insurance adjustments”, and “Energy Adjustments”. They always seemed to add up to an extra $100k annually for big box tenants and close to $40-50k for just your average shoppe. They were already getting bludgeoned with Rent and other charges, but these surprise “Adjustment” charges always seemed to favor the house and put many of stores out of business and they still don’t understand how these were calculated. They also ran the business straight out of the 60’s with intimidating upper management, who would berate, and dress down employees in front of co-workers. They made everyone show up at 630am for “Leasing Meetings”’even though I was in finance and didn’t pertain to me at the time. They also insisted that everyone where a suit and tie even though we sat upstairs in a dusty bowl pen where the 10 of us would stare at each other all day, not seeing anyone from the outside world. I was assured by more experienced workers that this was not a normal business, but i didn’t know any better being a 23 year old kid with his first job out of college. End of rant that was the worst place i have ever worked and it’s amazing anyone willing signs a lease with them. They’ll file for bankruptcy soon. The portfolio of malls have only got worse. Now back to reminiscing about Fairmount Fair. It was even fun when it was basically mall
walkers as all the stores eventually closed one after the other.

Univ. of Rochester Medical Center is a huge customer of mine! Much more profitable than Sears

Fairmount fair went under when I was pretty young but I still have a few memories of it. I recall the fountain set up and a few of the stores. Had a chance in the early 90s when it was still technically open and you could access it via Ames to walk through it when I think Just Record World and maybe one other place was open. Wish I had been able to get a few photos.

 

[SUbear]

Seems to be a gymnasium of some sort.

 

[SWC75]

About 80% of the movies I saw in the 1980's were at the Penn Can Mall. My favorite Restaurant was the Beefsteak Mining Company. The prime rib was to die for and the chocolate pie desert, (forgot what they called it)), could kill you. I got everything for the house at Sears, my shoes at Floreshine, my suits at Anderson Little, my pizza at Pavone's and my ice cream at Baskin Robins. there were multiple book stores, including an expansion of the Economy Book Store, and a record shop where I got all my LP's, (which eventually amounted to over 200). There where also plenty of nick-nack shops for holiday and birthday gifts. All that's left is the chandelier in the main lobby. Every suburb had it's own mall and we were the most populous suburb. We didn't need Destiny. Great Northern, when it opened, was out in the boondocks - and still is. The airport had various pictures of things to do in the Syracuse area. "Shopping" had a picture of a park bench set-up in frotn of my favorite books store. When I came back from a trip I'd see it and would go there, eat at Beefsteak, buy a book in the bookstore and sit on the park bench reading it. I was 'home'.

 

[SWC75]

I hope it includes a small poker room at least. That is all I play.

Small poker?

 

[SUbear]

Small poker?

Room size small compared to Turning Stone.

 

[sutomcat]

Franco’s was damn good pizza. Thanks for anomander for a trip down memory lane. My experience at record town was buying ice cube’s americas most wanted cassette while my mom was in another store. She didn’t know I bought it, I taped it to my stomach so she wouldn’t catch me with it. Good times

Are you guys getting Franco's pizza mixed up with Pavone's? I was an East side kind of guy but my memories of the late 1970s had a Pavone's and an Orange Julius right next to each other at Fairmount Fair (where Pavone's started in 1971) and at Shoppingtown.

My favorite part of Fairmount Fair back then was the arcade. They had a basketball game with a big glass dome over it where the ball would roll into holes associated with players and you could get shots off.

I suspect it was the first basketball in a dome in CNY.

 

[FrancoPizza]

If the government wants housing to be there, zoning is not not going to be a problem.

I could see a scenario where Pyramid agrees to add housing to the mall or somewhere on its property if it helps prevent them from losing the mall to bankruptcy.

Are things that desperate now? I don't know. Guessing they have to be close to defaulting right now on their loans.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Did I read correctly that they never made down payments on the original loan for carousel center? And only paid the interest? The mall was highly successful before the expansion so that would make no sense to me… and I can’t imagine a lender agreeing to finance the expansion if that was true.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Fairmount fair went under when I was pretty young but I still have a few memories of it. I recall the fountain set up and a few of the stores. Had a chance in the early 90s when it was still technically open and you could access it via Ames to walk through it when I think Just Record World and maybe one other place was open. Wish I had been able to get a few photos.

It astounds me how retail follows fads, bringing back the old as if it’s a new innovation. Fairmont Fair along with Shoppingtown both started out as strip centers(malls) years before they converted to enclosed malls. (even Camillus Plaza mall) Now everyone thinks these town centers (actually being reincarnation of the 1950-1960 strip malls) are modern renovations for retail. Wait another decade and the enclosed malls may very well return as a modern innovation. Just like wide leg pants come and go as being new fashion marvels.

By the way I loved the old Fairmont Fair with Murphy’s, Grants, Joe Charles Sports, Fairway restaurant etc when I was a kid. There was a Loblaws or Acme grocery store in the old strip Fairmont Fair located on the Onondaga Rd side of it. Across Onondaga Rd from Fairmont Fair was Curry’s cafeteria. Nice memories.

 

[SWC75]

It astounds me how retail follow fads, bringing back the old as if it’s a new innovation. Fairmont Fair along with Shoppingtown both started out as strip centers(malls) years before they converted to enclosed malls. (even Camillus mall) Now everyone thinks these town centers (actually being reincarnation of the 1950-1960 strip malls) are modern renovations for retail. Wait another decade and the enclosed malls may very well return as a modern innovation. Just like wide leg pants come and go as being new fashion marvels.

By the way I loved the old Fairmont Fair with Murphy’s, Grants, Joe Charles Sports, Fairway restaurant etc when I was a kid. There was a Loblaws or Acme grocery store in the old strip Fairmont Fair located on the Onondaga Rd side of it. Across Onondaga Rd from Fairmont Fair was Curry’s cafeteria. Nice memories.

When I was growing up, Northern Lights was the commercial center of the northern suburbs. Now it's a ghost town.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Cheriehoop]

When I was growing up, Northern Lights was the commercial center of the northern suburbs. Now it's a ghost town.

I remember that one too but we didn’t visit it much since we were in the city‘s western side near Velasko Rd and headed to Fairmont Fair or Shoppingtown near my cousins home and where my aunt worked at JC Penny’s, when it too was a strip mall. Northern Lights was considered a long trip to the boonies even past Mattydale back then.

 

[Atlcuse44]

There was no mall, and I mean ever, like Fairmount Fair mall. Franco’s had the absolute BEST pizza EVER. Definite 10 on Portnoy’s scale. Perfectly thin, crisp crust, with a nice bite of cheese where you have to hold the pizza over the head so you can bite down the stretched cheese. Absolutely to die for. I had more Franco’s pizza I can still taste it to this day. Before that it getting orange julius, which was right next door. Nothing like getting an orange julius then 2 slices of always fresh cheese from Franco’s. Would then usually head to Record Town. I remember I was in 4th grade and I convinced my mom to let me but Cypress Hill’s first cassette. When I would go with my friends we would also go to Franco’s, Orange Julius, Record Town,
and then they had a pretty nice arcade and Kay Bee Toys for some garbage pal kids cards. The best part was when they would have the sports card shows where vendors would purchase a table and you would have most of the mall filled with sports card vendors. For a HUGE sports card collector like myself when I was a kid in the early and mid 80’s it was like Christmas in Summer. I would find the schedule and never miss a show. Unfortunately, my friends and I weren’t enough to keep Fairmount Fair mall from going under. It really was a great mall, with beautiful water fountains, but the death was Destiny, which is a whole other story.

My first job out of college was working in finance and eventually leasing for Pyramid. What an absolute $heeet show, and a total rip off for tenants. Those leases were worded so shady that these tenants, who were already paying well over market value, would get hit annually with “Tax adjustments”, “CAM (Common Area Maintenance) adjustments”, “Insurance adjustments”, and “Energy Adjustments”. They always seemed to add up to an extra $100k annually for big box tenants and close to $40-50k for just your average shoppe. They were already getting bludgeoned with Rent and other charges, but these surprise “Adjustment” charges always seemed to favor the house and put many of stores out of business and they still don’t understand how these were calculated. They also ran the business straight out of the 60’s with intimidating upper management, who would berate, and dress down employees in front of co-workers. They made everyone show up at 630am for “Leasing Meetings”’even though I was in finance and didn’t pertain to me at the time. They also insisted that everyone where a suit and tie even though we sat upstairs in a dusty bowl pen where the 10 of us would stare at each other all day, not seeing anyone from the outside world. I was assured by more experienced workers that this was not a normal business, but i didn’t know any better being a 23 year old kid with his first job out of college. End of rant that was the worst place i have ever worked and it’s amazing anyone willing signs a lease with them. They’ll file for bankruptcy soon. The portfolio of malls have only got worse. Now back to reminiscing about Fairmount Fair. It was even fun when it was basically mall
walkers as all the stores eventually closed one after the other.

Univ. of Rochester Medical Center is a huge customer of mine! Much more profitable than Sears

Loved Fairmont Fair as a kid. I was always at that arcade. Orange Julius and Franco's, good memories. Spent plenty of time at Camillus Mall being a West Genny grad but I don't remember it as well as Fairmont Fair.