More terrible coaching

[Day2]

If you guys are using JB’s past comments as proof that he’s coming back, then you have to do the same with Buddy…his past comments being proof that he’s not coming back.

 

[BillSU]

Jimmy at the 5 to end regulation.

Coaching is failing the team.

Who, of anyone available, would you have put at the 5 when Jesse fouled out @ 9:02?

Remember, you have to consider size, ability to move, block, score, hit free throws and think to stay out of foul trouble. Would you have split the time left with two bench players and who would they be?

Do you think you have any player to play the position at that point?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Who, of anyone available, would you have put at the 5 when Jesse fouled out @ 9:02?

Remember, you have to consider size, ability to move, block, score, hit free throws and think to stay out of foul trouble. Would you have split the time left with two bench players and who would they be?

Do you think you have any player to play the position at that point?

I agreed with this take, Bill. But what they are talking about is really just the last couple possessions, and the start of overtime. I think they're right about that - JB should have made a couple offense-defense substitutions right at the end, switching Jimmy for Frank.

 

[LaggyJon]

The most unfortunate part of all of this is that, even with the disaster that this season has become, there’s a way this could’ve gone where the fans don’t turn on JB.

Imagine that we still have this poorly-constructed roster, with pieces that don’t fit and not enough depth. But, JB is willing to:

• Experiment with new lineups, including those that may not have his kids playing 35+ every game without question
• Admit publicly that he’s made mistakes in roster construction and in-game decisions, and doesn’t pass all the blame to (selected) players
• Say that he knows there have been problems and promises to make changes on-court (maybe some real offensive sets?) and off-court (changes to coaching/staff or basketball operations processes?)

If he did these things, I really think that he’d get a lot more support from the fans. The vast, vast majority really want him to succeed, and a touch of humility and recognition that his decisions haven’t worked would buy a lot of goodwill. A lot more fans would give him a chance to pull out of the skid, because he’d be acknowledging that there’s a skid to pull out of.

But without any of these happening, what hope do fans have that anything will ever change? His obstinance and deflection just makes it seem like he doesn’t realize that there are real issues with this team, and that everything would be great if Jesse just covered the corner 3 better.

I have no doubt that JB still really wants to win basketball games. But it increasingly seems like he’s unwilling to push himself one iota outside of his comfort zone to do so.

 

[Alsacs]

The most unfortunate part of all of this is that, even with the disaster that this season has become, there’s a way this could’ve gone where the fans don’t turn on JB.

Imagine that we still have this poorly-constructed roster, with pieces that don’t fit and not enough depth. But, JB is willing to:

• Experiment with new lineups, including those that may not have his kids playing 35+ every game without question
• Admit publicly that he’s made mistakes in roster construction and in-game decisions, and doesn’t pass all the blame to (selected) players
• Say that he knows there have been problems and promises to make changes on-court (maybe some real offensive sets?) and off-court (changes to coaching/staff or basketball operations processes?)

If he did these things, I really think that he’d get a lot more support from the fans. The vast, vast majority really want him to succeed, and a touch of humility and recognition that his decisions haven’t worked would buy a lot of goodwill. A lot more fans would give him a chance to pull out of the skid, because he’d be acknowledging that there’s a skid to pull out of.

But without any of these happening, what hope do fans have that anything will ever change? His obstinance and deflection just makes it seem like he doesn’t realize that there are real issues with this team, and that everything would be great if Jesse just covered the corner 3 better.

I have no doubt that JB still really wants to win basketball games. But it increasingly seems like he’s unwilling to push himself one iota outside of his comfort zone to do so.

This needs to be pinned its so damn true and the crux of the problem.

 

[jdubs30]

Even if Buddy came back the chance he’d transfer is 0, especially if JB is still here. There is literally no way

 

[kcsu]

I don’t see buddy coming back here.
The kid if he wants to grad transfer could probably go anywhere but I think he will want to go get paid to play basketball. Plus honestly if he comes back JB is basically going to stunt the development of our future.

We aren’t going to relevant if Buddy comes back next year atleast giving the future a chance gives us optimism. This fanbase needs some optimism.
The current status quo doesn’t generate optimism.

I wouldn't bet against Buddy being back.

 

[tipphill]

Waters asked about this in the presser. Jim said Frank had been standing around and not involved….the smaller lineup was best there

then coach him jim you have hardly played him!!! get him involved

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

How can you force a guy out who’s had one losing season (which hasn’t happened yet) who’s been with the university for 50+ years? Doesn’t mean I don’t want to move on or think we shouldn’t, but it’s not going to happen, especially when our football coach has had one winning season out of 6.

Because the consumers want it and are voting with their dollars.

 

[kcsu]

The most unfortunate part of all of this is that, even with the disaster that this season has become, there’s a way this could’ve gone where the fans don’t turn on JB.

Imagine that we still have this poorly-constructed roster, with pieces that don’t fit and not enough depth. But, JB is willing to:

• Experiment with new lineups, including those that may not have his kids playing 35+ every game without question
• Admit publicly that he’s made mistakes in roster construction and in-game decisions, and doesn’t pass all the blame to (selected) players
• Say that he knows there have been problems and promises to make changes on-court (maybe some real offensive sets?) and off-court (changes to coaching/staff or basketball operations processes?)

If he did these things, I really think that he’d get a lot more support from the fans. The vast, vast majority really want him to succeed, and a touch of humility and recognition that his decisions haven’t worked would buy a lot of goodwill. A lot more fans would give him a chance to pull out of the skid, because he’d be acknowledging that there’s a skid to pull out of.

But without any of these happening, what hope do fans have that anything will ever change? His obstinance and deflection just makes it seem like he doesn’t realize that there are real issues with this team, and that everything would be great if Jesse just covered the corner 3 better.

I have no doubt that JB still really wants to win basketball games. But it increasingly seems like he’s unwilling to push himself one iota outside of his comfort zone to do so.

And then you win the lottery and fly off into the sunset on a pig.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

The most unfortunate part of all of this is that, even with the disaster that this season has become, there’s a way this could’ve gone where the fans don’t turn on JB.

Imagine that we still have this poorly-constructed roster, with pieces that don’t fit and not enough depth. But, JB is willing to:

• Experiment with new lineups, including those that may not have his kids playing 35+ every game without question
• Admit publicly that he’s made mistakes in roster construction and in-game decisions, and doesn’t pass all the blame to (selected) players
• Say that he knows there have been problems and promises to make changes on-court (maybe some real offensive sets?) and off-court (changes to coaching/staff or basketball operations processes?)

If he did these things, I really think that he’d get a lot more support from the fans. The vast, vast majority really want him to succeed, and a touch of humility and recognition that his decisions haven’t worked would buy a lot of goodwill. A lot more fans would give him a chance to pull out of the skid, because he’d be acknowledging that there’s a skid to pull out of.

But without any of these happening, what hope do fans have that anything will ever change? His obstinance and deflection just makes it seem like he doesn’t realize that there are real issues with this team, and that everything would be great if Jesse just covered the corner 3 better.

I have no doubt that JB still really wants to win basketball games. But it increasingly seems like he’s unwilling to push himself one iota outside of his comfort zone to do so.

Guy is near 80.. if you’re blessed to reach 80 .. you think you’re going to listen to anyone or push yourself ?

 

[Scooch]

Who, of anyone available, would you have put at the 5 when Jesse fouled out @ 9:02?

Remember, you have to consider size, ability to move, block, score, hit free throws and think to stay out of foul trouble. Would you have split the time left with two bench players and who would they be?

Do you think you have any player to play the position at that point?

We have two healthy scholarship centers on the bench with 3 and 2 years experience in the program. One of them has played in just about every game this season. If neither can give us some second half minutes in conference play then why are they on the team? We stack the roster with bean pole developmental centers, then spend every year listening to JB run them down incessantly. It’s exhausting.

Frank should have played because he’s the backup center, period.

 

[sufandu]

I would not be surprised if this happens and the new guys will not be ready. High school seniors coming to play at a high major in the ACC will not be ready unless they are in a class like Melo or Bing or Pearl.

Or GMac or Wallace or Owens or Moten or Flynn or Devendorf or Edelin or...

There are freshman all over the country that are ready to play. That may not mean they're ready to be stars, but they're ready to play and contribute. We should be able to get and play some of them. Boeheim claiming that nearly every one is not ready speaks to poor recent recruiting.

 

[Waltdods]

Listen, this is simple. JB is only going to play players “he trusts”. How many times has he said a player isn’t ready yet ? How can frank not be ready to play the 5 position after how many years? THATS ON YOU THE COACH. That’s the part he never takes accountability for. Jesse has made leaps and bounds BC of Griff. Other players have no improved because JB doesn’t develop players. EVER. He coaches schemes and positions but he does not everrrrr take time on his own to develop players. So what a sick cycle this is. Don’t play players you don’t trust and then don’t develop players in practice and yet expect that you’re gonna be so arrogant that you will outsmart everyone else because this is your 455th year coaching. It’s all finally catching up to him and not playing frank on the last play and defending it should be enough for this fan base to understand the cycle because I’ve literally seen it in person...

I mostly agree with this as it relates to the current team.

But I think it’s wrong to say boeheim has never developed guys. There is a very long history of players who have developed into much better players over their Syracuse careers. Unfortunately that history seems to have ended around when mike Hopkins left, IMO. Jesse Edwards I think is genuinely the only guy who has made a big leap in the last five years and even there it isn’t clear whether it’s just getting the opportunity.

Oshae brissett was really good as a freshman with one obvious hole in his game, he couldn’t finish. Somehow he got worse at that as a sophomore but now two years later is good enough to score consistently in the nba.

Ten years ago I don’t think that would have happened. CJ fair for example came in as a freshman and surprised as a garbage guy who couldn’t really shoot. He shot 40 percent from three as a junior. Scoop jardines biggest contribution as a freshman involved a meal card and he developed into a very good college point guard as an upperclassman. Andy Rautins was KILLED on this board for two plus years and turned into a borderline all American as a senior.

Even jerami grant, who I think is seen as a developmental failure, indisputably added to his game between in his two years here.

More recently, rakeem Christmas and gbinje both were massively better players when they left than when they came in.

 

[Gotothehole]

I don't get the sentiment of some that things could get worse after a coaching change. So much of that bad we see is tied to recruiting for the zone. and not developing a bench.

 

[Ghost]

Who, of anyone available, would you have put at the 5 when Jesse fouled out @ 9:02?

Remember, you have to consider size, ability to move, block, score, hit free throws and think to stay out of foul trouble. Would you have split the time left with two bench players and who would they be?

Do you think you have any player to play the position at that point?

I think when the answer to "who, of anyone," starts to consistently appear to be his children - fans, fairly, or unfairly, will question it.

It's the same as last year. We'd have a 15 point lead, need a forward, and the answer was quite often Buddy. Rarely was that answer Newton or Braswell, or even Edwards at the 5 and moving Marek down out of the to the 4, etc...I think he goes to who he trusts and his trust is naturally highest with his offspring.

Move: Not Jimmy
Block: Not Jimmy
Score: Jimmy
Hit Free Throws: Not Jimmy
Stay Out of Foul Trouble: Not concerned.

I think the guy that played very well in OT could have been an option at the 5. If he was ready for that, he should have been ready with 9:02 left.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I mostly agree with this as it relates to the current team.

But I think it’s wrong to say boeheim has never developed guys. There is a very long history of players who have developed into much better players over their Syracuse careers. Unfortunately that history seems to have ended around when mike Hopkins left, IMO. Jesse Edwards I think is genuinely the only guy who has made a big leap in the last five years and even there it isn’t clear whether it’s just getting the opportunity.

Oshae brissett was really good as a freshman with one obvious hole in his game, he couldn’t finish. Somehow he got worse at that as a sophomore but now two years later is good enough to score consistently in the nba.

Ten years ago I don’t think that would have happened. CJ fair for example came in as a freshman and surprised as a garbage guy who couldn’t really shoot. He shot 40 percent from three as a junior. Scoop jardines biggest contribution as a freshman involved a meal card and he developed into a very good college point guard as an upperclassman. Andy Rautins was KILLED on this board for two plus years and turned into a borderline all American as a senior.

Even jerami grant, who I think is seen as a developmental failure, indisputably added to his game between in his two years here.

More recently, rakeem Christmas and gbinje both were massively better players when they left than when they came in.

Brissett’s improvement has absolutely nothing to do with the SU coaching staff.

 

[Waltdods]

Brissett’s improvement has absolutely nothing to do with the SU coaching staff.

Agreed. If anything I think he regressed in his two years at su.

 

[AZOrange]

Say, I have an idea for what will break the trend with respect to this bad coaching. Let's hire a destitute man's version of the current coach who is failing from inside the program!

Why throw away the family dynamic of the last 45 years? What could possibly go wrong?

Look I get it RF2044, I do. But the one thing I’d say is that I don’t think any of the current staff is locked into the zone like that. All three had successful M2M situations.

 

[AZOrange]

I hope people realize how simple wake Forest scored there. I understand pushing up to not allow a game winning 3, but the next worst thing is a wide open game tying layup.

At least foul there…Jesus

 

[Bulldog04]

Look I get it RF2044, I do. But the one thing I’d say is that I don’t think any of the current staff is locked into the zone like that. All three had successful M2M situations.

I can assure you none of the coaches want to play zone. I’ve asked this question numerous numerous times. The exact answer I get is “straight man homie”. Just so everyone is aware

 

[SUintheVille]

Negativity is rampant. It’s what people do. Getting old. Perhaps deserved. Becoming as much of a cesspool as the old Off Topic board was and that got yanked.

 

[AZOrange]

It’s funny, we had each of those last year, but they left.

Yeah he doesn’t play those guys correctly…

 

[AZOrange]

I can assure you none of the coaches want to play zone. I’ve asked this question numerous numerous times. The exact answer I get is “straight man homie”. Just so everyone is aware

Yeah I’ve heard similar. The frustration is palpable. If JB returns I’d be hard pressed to think a coach or two doesn’t leave.

 

[AZOrange]

Negativity is rampant. It’s what people do. Getting old. Perhaps deserved. Becoming as much of a cesspool as the old Off Topic board was and that got yanked.

Perhaps deserved? We are Syracuse not Georgia Tech. This is ridiculous.