Musings on the Defense

[bcubs9497]

Posted this in another thread; didn't want itto get lost in the noise.

What's Houston ranked right now? 6th. Anyone take a look at what their recruiting classes looked like the past several years? 2015: 92nd. 2014: 76th. 2013: 56th.

This year: 35th.

The recruiting ratings of their starting front 7:
Jerard Carter: 2 star
Ed Oliver: 5 star
Cameron Malveaux: 2 star

LBs:
Tyus Bowser: 3 star
Matthew Adams: 3 star
Steven Taylor: 2 star
D'Juan Hines: 2 star

Most of them are 3+ years into the program. Only one, Ed Oliver, is an underclassman (and highly rated).

If anyone wants to read up on their bios, here's the link: UHCOUGARS.com :: University of Houston Official Athletic Site :: Football

The point of this post? 1st, to defend these kids. S T with the "lack of talent" crap. Most of our guys are 1-2 years into SU, and they've already have had to deal with 2 coaching staffs, two totally differing defensive schemes, and lots of injuries. Our kids, coming out of high school, pretty much match what Houston's got, and, as we can all see, Houston doesn't suck. 2nd. Implementing a new D and a new O is traumatic. Sht's gonna happen. They're ALL learning (including the staff). So, for those btching about how much we suck, cut them some goddamn slack. It's going to be a train wreck, interspersed with flashes of what this team will become by 2018. BE PATIENT and a bit more understanding of what's happened, and what's going on with these boys.

 

[upperdeck]

if we had the proper depth, only 3-4 of these kids would even be seeing real minutes right now. the rest would be learning and getting stronger.

 

[bcubs9497]

if we had the proper depth, only 3-4 of these kids would even be seeing real minutes right now. the rest would be learning and getting stronger.

Depth will be there in 2 years. Until then, it's trial by fire. And they'll get there.

 

[gocusecaz]

Do the players have confidence in the new system and feel it's a matter of time before it really clicks? I know some of the players have mentioned in interviews that some of the problems are communication. I have an end zone seat and their are times when we have 2 guys covering 3. Hope that's a communication problem and not a scheme problem. I think this week we will have a better idea on what's what.

 

[CIL]

I understand your position. I'm not sure it's a lack of talent thing - it's a lack of ideal athlete for scheme and extreme youth.

Sure, we have some players that could play in any scheme like Steven and Slayton...But there are a few others that aren't the best fit for what we are trying to do here.

It is evident on other teams' ability to get to the edge...our DE's are really struggling at the point of attack and our lb's are struggling getting off of blocks right now.

In theory the DE and CB hold their edge and funnel the play back into pursuit. Problem is the pursuit is either a tad late right now or the edge isn't being held.

I think it is a combo of age and size. 208 pound lbs aren't big enough to shed blocks and they probably need another 15 pounds or so...does that come with age or do they not have he frame to do so? I don't know yet

That being said, I can see the light bulb going off a tad in these kids' heads. They are starting to understand positioning a bit better and will recognize things the more they see them.

I think UCONN is exactly what these kids need right now. We've chased around hyper mobile QBs the last two weeks...finally a boring Rushing team that will give them looks I think they can handle.

 

[TheCusian]

I understand your position. I'm not sure it's a lack of talent thing - it's a lack of ideal athlete for scheme and extreme youth.

Sure, we have some players that could play in any scheme like Steven and Slayton...But there are a few others that aren't the best fit for what we are trying to do here.

It is evident on other teams' ability to get to the edge...our DE's are really struggling at the point of attack and our lb's are struggling getting off of blocks right now.

In theory the DE and CB hold their edge and funnel the play back into pursuit. Problem is the pursuit is either a tad late right now or the edge isn't being held.

I think it is a combo of age and size. 208 pound lbs aren't big enough to shed blocks and they probably need another 15 pounds or so...does that come with age or do they not have he frame to do so? I don't know yet

That being said, I can see the light bulb going off a tad in these kids' heads. They are starting to understand positioning a bit better and will recognize things the more they see them.

I think UCONN is exactly what these kids need right now. We've chased around hyper mobile QBs the last two weeks...finally a boring Rushing team that will give them looks I think they can handle.

Yep. Weirdly enough I found the 1st Q and the start of the 3rd really refreshing. They got actual stops and were in the right spots.

UCONN will be a nice confidence boost on D, I think.

 

[PAcuse]

I think a lot of "lack of talent" comments are coming form older recruiting classes not from the kids we got the last 1-2 years, which has caused depth issues at a lot of key spots.

 

[Rocco]

Posted this in another thread; didn't want itto get lost in the noise.

What's Houston ranked right now? 6th. Anyone take a look at what their recruiting classes looked like the past several years? 2015: 92nd. 2014: 76th. 2013: 56th.

This year: 35th.

The recruiting ratings of their starting front 7:
Jerard Carter: 2 star
Ed Oliver: 5 star
Cameron Malveaux: 2 star

LBs:
Tyus Bowser: 3 star
Matthew Adams: 3 star
Steven Taylor: 2 star
D'Juan Hines: 2 star

Most of them are 3+ years into the program. Only one, Ed Oliver, is an underclassman (and highly rated).

If anyone wants to read up on their bios, here's the link: UHCOUGARS.com :: University of Houston Official Athletic Site :: Football

The point of this post? 1st, to defend these kids. S T with the "lack of talent" crap. Most of our guys are 1-2 years into SU, and they've already have had to deal with 2 coaching staffs, two totally differing defensive schemes, and lots of injuries. Our kids, coming out of high school, pretty much match what Houston's got, and, as we can all see, Houston doesn't suck. 2nd. Implementing a new D and a new O is traumatic. Sht's gonna happen. They're ALL learning (including the staff). So, for those btching about how much we suck, cut them some goddamn slack. It's going to be a train wreck, interspersed with flashes of what this team will become by 2018. BE PATIENT and a bit more understanding of what's happened, and what's going on with these boys.

Well said. There are some bright spots in the defensive lineup right now (Clark, Slayton, Zaire, Coleman). Issue is that they're using Shafer's players in a completely different system. It's like fitting squares into round pegs. There are going to be growing pains until they get it right.

GREAT POST!!!! So spot on...

 

[SoBristol]

The measuring sticks for this defense will be UConn, Wake & BC -- and then whether the younger guys get better into November. Louisville and South Florida are way ahead of us in talent and size -- and didn't we know that?

The defense is not nearly as young as in 2015, but it is still led by juniors & sophs, with a handful of true frosh starting to work in to provide depth. How many seniors? Wilson is a grad & Morgan & Winfield are 4th year players -- that's it. Our young defensive coaches are rookies at this level as well.

 

[sufandu]

Posted this in another thread; didn't want itto get lost in the noise.

What's Houston ranked right now? 6th. Anyone take a look at what their recruiting classes looked like the past several years? 2015: 92nd. 2014: 76th. 2013: 56th.

This year: 35th.

The recruiting ratings of their starting front 7:
Jerard Carter: 2 star
Ed Oliver: 5 star
Cameron Malveaux: 2 star

LBs:
Tyus Bowser: 3 star
Matthew Adams: 3 star
Steven Taylor: 2 star
D'Juan Hines: 2 star

Most of them are 3+ years into the program. Only one, Ed Oliver, is an underclassman (and highly rated).

If anyone wants to read up on their bios, here's the link: UHCOUGARS.com :: University of Houston Official Athletic Site :: Football

The point of this post? 1st, to defend these kids. S T with the "lack of talent" crap. Most of our guys are 1-2 years into SU, and they've already have had to deal with 2 coaching staffs, two totally differing defensive schemes, and lots of injuries. Our kids, coming out of high school, pretty much match what Houston's got, and, as we can all see, Houston doesn't suck. 2nd. Implementing a new D and a new O is traumatic. Sht's gonna happen. They're ALL learning (including the staff). So, for those btching about how much we suck, cut them some goddamn slack. It's going to be a train wreck, interspersed with flashes of what this team will become by 2018. BE PATIENT and a bit more understanding of what's happened, and what's going on with these boys.

I understand your frustration with the comments since you are so close to the program with your son being a player. What I ask is that you cut us some slack as well. You're close to the program but most of on here have followed it for decades and have endured 15 years of anything from mediocrity to down right incompetence. If you're frustrated after 1+ seasons, imagine how it feels after 15 years. Fair or not, some of our fuses are short after being told to "be patient" for a decade and a half.

People come on here for a number of reasons. Sometimes it's to vent. As long as we're losing it's gonna continue to happen. Thank you for your involvement on this board. For your own sanity you may want to take a break from here... at least until we win another game.

 

[13mike13]

Posted this in another thread; didn't want itto get lost in the noise.

What's Houston ranked right now? 6th. Anyone take a look at what their recruiting classes looked like the past several years? 2015: 92nd. 2014: 76th. 2013: 56th.

This year: 35th.

The recruiting ratings of their starting front 7:
Jerard Carter: 2 star
Ed Oliver: 5 star
Cameron Malveaux: 2 star

LBs:
Tyus Bowser: 3 star
Matthew Adams: 3 star
Steven Taylor: 2 star
D'Juan Hines: 2 star

Most of them are 3+ years into the program. Only one, Ed Oliver, is an underclassman (and highly rated).

If anyone wants to read up on their bios, here's the link: UHCOUGARS.com :: University of Houston Official Athletic Site :: Football

The point of this post? 1st, to defend these kids. S T with the "lack of talent" crap. Most of our guys are 1-2 years into SU, and they've already have had to deal with 2 coaching staffs, two totally differing defensive schemes, and lots of injuries. Our kids, coming out of high school, pretty much match what Houston's got, and, as we can all see, Houston doesn't suck. 2nd. Implementing a new D and a new O is traumatic. Sht's gonna happen. They're ALL learning (including the staff). So, for those btching about how much we suck, cut them some goddamn slack. It's going to be a train wreck, interspersed with flashes of what this team will become by 2018. BE PATIENT and a bit more understanding of what's happened, and what's going on with these boys.

Great post. Your son is a stud out there. He really is the anchor right now, and love how he plays and carries himself. I feel like we are going to put the hurt on UCONN this weekend, and much of the griping will subside.

 

[TheCusian]

I understand your frustration with he comments since you are so close to the program with your son being a player. What I ask is that you cut us some slack as well. You're close to the program but most of on here have followed it for decades and have endured 15 years of anything from mediocrity to down right incompetence. If you're frustrated after 1+ seasons, imagine how it feels after 15 years. Fair or not, some of our fuses are short after being told to "be patient" for a decade and a half.

People come on here for a number of reasons. Sometimes it's to vent. As long as we're losing it's gonna continue to happen. Thank you for your involvement on this board. For your own sanity you may want to take a break from here... at least until we win another game.

I don't think this is right at all. His post is helpful in understanding that those 15 years are all history to the players and the new staff. They should get wiped from our memories too. They are irrelevant and not helpful in getting to where we want to be. Much like attendance threads should be placed on moratorium, out right venting over years and years of pain should too.

The last two weekends sucked. But they were steps 2-3 in a rebuilding process under a new coach.

What if we kept the past in the past and just judged based on year one of a new system and staff?

 

[JeremyCuse]

I understand your position. I'm not sure it's a lack of talent thing - it's a lack of ideal athlete for scheme and extreme youth.

Sure, we have some players that could play in any scheme like Steven and Slayton...But there are a few others that aren't the best fit for what we are trying to do here.

It is evident on other teams' ability to get to the edge...our DE's are really struggling at the point of attack and our lb's are struggling getting off of blocks right now.

In theory the DE and CB hold their edge and funnel the play back into pursuit. Problem is the pursuit is either a tad late right now or the edge isn't being held.

I think it is a combo of age and size. 208 pound lbs aren't big enough to shed blocks and they probably need another 15 pounds or so...does that come with age or do they not have he frame to do so? I don't know yet

That being said, I can see the light bulb going off a tad in these kids' heads. They are starting to understand positioning a bit better and will recognize things the more they see them.

I think UCONN is exactly what these kids need right now. We've chased around hyper mobile QBs the last two weeks...finally a boring Rushing team that will give them looks I think they can handle.

I don't disagree about UConn but Sherriffs is at least somewhat of a mobile QB who has scrambled a lot this year. Certainly no where near Jackson or the USF kid but he burned Navy on a bunch of QB runs. I didn't see the UVA game but I wouldn't be shocked if he had decent totals there as well.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think a lot of "lack of talent" comments are coming form older recruiting classes not from the kids we got the last 1-2 years, which has caused depth issues at a lot of key spots.

Yeah. We've got an incredible number of injured players in the secondary, and at defensive end we're relying entirely on guys with zip for experience at the position. There's some bad luck to this, and some roster management at play too.

The crappy thing is this is pressing guys into action earlier than would be preferred. Not much you can do, but it does make the hole a bit tougher to dig out of.

 

[bcubs9497]

Do the players have confidence in the new system and feel it's a matter of time before it really clicks? I know some of the players have mentioned in interviews that some of the problems are communication. I have an end zone seat and their are times when we have 2 guys covering 3. Hope that's a communication problem and not a scheme problem. I think this week we will have a better idea on what's what.

Yes. They're pretty confident. They also know it's going to be a while.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't disagree about UConn but Sherriffs is at least somewhat of a mobile QB who has scrambled a lot this year. Certainly no where near Jackson or the USF kid but he burned Navy on a bunch of QB runs. I didn't see the UVA game but I wouldn't be shocked if he had decent totals there as well.

He ran for 90 yards vs Maine and in the 30s vs Navy and Virginia. He'll probably tote it 15-20 times or so if their plan on offense is consistent with their previous three games.

 

[bcubs9497]

I don't think this is right at all. His post is helpful in understanding that those 15 years are all history to the players and the new staff. They should get wiped from our memories too. They are irrelevant and not helpful in getting to where we want to be. Much like attendance threads should be placed on moratorium, out right venting over years and years of pain should too.

The last two weekends sucked. But they were steps 2-3 in a rebuilding process under a new coach.

What if we kept the past in the past and just judged based on year one of a new system and staff?

Exactly.

 

[JeremyCuse]

He ran for 90 yards vs Maine and in the 30s vs Navy and Virginia. He'll probably tote it 15-20 times or so if their plan on offense is consistent with their previous three games.

13 for 45 vs Navy which is less then it felt watching the game so that's a good sign. Just need to keep him contained on 3rd and long. They will run plenty of plays designed for him to pick up the 1st down via a draw or some other run. Need to shut that down.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

13 for 45 vs Navy which is less then it felt watching the game so that's a good sign. Just need to keep him contained on 3rd and long. They will run plenty of plays designed for him to pick up the 1st down via a draw or some other run. Need to shut that down.

Was the last game there the one we lost to Coach P? We have had some really bad games there over the years

 

[sufandu]

The measuring sticks for this defense will be UConn, Wake & BC -- and then whether the younger guys get better into November. Louisville and South Florida are way ahead of us in talent and size -- and didn't we know that?

The defense is not nearly as young as in 2015, but it is still led by juniors & sophs, with a handful of true frosh starting to work in to provide depth. How many seniors? Wilson is a grad & Morgan & Winfield are 4th year players -- that's it. Our young defensive coaches are rookies at this level as well.

Judging by the comments before each game, no, many didn't.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Was the last game there the one we lost to Coach P? We have had some really bad games there over the years

Correct. It featured the worst redzone play call of all time, a reverse to our oft injured/hobbled TE. Was dropped for a 4-5 yard loss.

That was also the game where UConn went to their running QB in the second half and pretty much scored at will running literally the same 3-4 plays over and over. It was probably Shafers worst game as D coordinator at SU. Our LB's were awful as well.

 

[SWC75]

I'm encouraged by the number of people who realize this is going to take a while and 2-3 full recruiting classes to fix. I know we've been "rebuilding" for 15 years but two coaching changes in four years hurts recruiting badly and changing to different systems on both sides of the ball is a major over-hall.

It beats the torchlight parades that began when things went poorly in the past.

 

[Alsacs]

There always outliers to any theory. Also, Houston recruits TX and their recruits are 2nd tier TX recruits. Herman doesn't have to leave the Houston area to stock his roster.

2nd tier FL/TX/CA/GA/OH players are better than the rest of the country. Houston also has a Heisman quality offense which makes playing D a lot easier.

Your son is not the problem the kid plays his butt. The DT position has quality. The rest of the D isn't as stocked. We have undersized DEs who can't set an edge. Our LBs have to improve. We are getting killed on the ground.

I am not mad at the staff at all. They are implementing a new system and need 2 more recruiting classes before their players are running their system. The fact is this our recruiting hasn't been as good as it needs to be to compete in the ACC. We have plenty of good recruits but we need more.

 

[4the Dubs]

Posted this in another thread; didn't want itto get lost in the noise.

What's Houston ranked right now? 6th. Anyone take a look at what their recruiting classes looked like the past several years? 2015: 92nd. 2014: 76th. 2013: 56th.

This year: 35th.

The recruiting ratings of their starting front 7:
Jerard Carter: 2 star
Ed Oliver: 5 star
Cameron Malveaux: 2 star

LBs:
Tyus Bowser: 3 star
Matthew Adams: 3 star
Steven Taylor: 2 star
D'Juan Hines: 2 star

Most of them are 3+ years into the program. Only one, Ed Oliver, is an underclassman (and highly rated).

If anyone wants to read up on their bios, here's the link: UHCOUGARS.com :: University of Houston Official Athletic Site :: Football

The point of this post? 1st, to defend these kids. S T with the "lack of talent" crap. Most of our guys are 1-2 years into SU, and they've already have had to deal with 2 coaching staffs, two totally differing defensive schemes, and lots of injuries. Our kids, coming out of high school, pretty much match what Houston's got, and, as we can all see, Houston doesn't suck. 2nd. Implementing a new D and a new O is traumatic. Sht's gonna happen. They're ALL learning (including the staff). So, for those btching about how much we suck, cut them some goddamn slack. It's going to be a train wreck, interspersed with flashes of what this team will become by 2018. BE PATIENT and a bit more understanding of what's happened, and what's going on with these boys.

Man I love this post! The kids are super talented but there's too many moving parts. This is the exact point I was trying to make in the USF game thread and it somehow got misconstrued into me personally having low expectations.

 

[bcubs9497]

There always outliers to any theory. Also, Houston recruits TX and their recruits are 2nd tier TX recruits. Herman doesn't have to leave the Houston area to stock his roster.

2nd tier FL/TX/CA/GA/OH players are better than the rest of the country. Houston also has a Heisman quality offense which makes playing D a lot easier.

Your son is not the problem the kid plays his butt. The DT position has quality. The rest of the D isn't as stocked. We have undersized DEs who can't set an edge. Our LBs have to improve. We are getting killed on the ground.

I am not mad at the staff at all. They are implementing a new system and need 2 more recruiting classes before their players are running their system. The fact is this our recruiting hasn't been as good as it needs to be to compete in the ACC. We have plenty of good recruits but we need more.

Most of the kids on Houston's 2 deep are high 2 star, low 3 star kids out of high school. Has nothing to do with Texas 2 star/3 star recruits being "better" than a 2/3 star kid out of Wisconsin. Also, those kids have the benefit of working the same system the past few years (despite their coaching changes - they promoted from within). In a few years, we could very well be "Houston-esque".