My Take

[sutomcat]

Saw a tweet from Reed that said he was 322 and definitely still coming

A 6’3 guy with no gut who weighs 322 is a guy who has to have a lot of muscle mass.

Dude must be strong as hell.

 

[llandz]

From where I sat, the kids didn’t seem to mind. They were excited to be at the rail and have a chance to see the players up close. Most kids don’t have a sense of what was possible last year, or the year before that.

They all were insanely excited when they were on TV, which was often.

 

[OrangeAl]

As for the O -

RB - Allen’s going to be our best back since Carter, and thats including Tucker. Thats my prediction. The kid has bounce, wiggle and hands. He needs to improve on his breakaway speed, and as mentioned needs to continue filling out.

Price and Escobar looked good as well. Could have told me Escobars the vet portal transfer from NM and I’d believe you.

WR - Most impressed with Hatcher and Brown.

Would love to see one of these guys squeeze in the active rotation. Pena’s solid but imo a special teams player.

Think our big three will be OG, Alford and Adams. Jones will have the ability to earn more looks too. He’s got the size for sure.

Long got a bunch of targets but doesn’t seem quite as sure handed in traffic. Big kid.

OL - problem. Need more hands on deck. Same old story

You're really saying that Carter was better than Tucker? Tucker had that electricity that we hadn't seen since Joe Morris. Carter was a top-shelf running back, but not the same as Morris and Tucker.

 

[storange]

You're really saying that Carter was better than Tucker? Tucker had that electricity that we hadn't seen since Joe Morris. Carter was a top-shelf running back, but not the same as Morris and Tucker.

I’ve been around since 1970. Joe Morris was the best, and Sean Tucker was the second best. I don’t know much , but I know that.

 

[OmahaCuse]

Hard to predict they are different. Allen is shifty, is better out of the backfield. Tucker was a great one cut back, powerful and fast, probably a 4th round pick. Lets see what Allen does and what he looks like after gaining another 15lbs And 2 years more years of playing.

 

[blizz]

The Oline seems to be a perpetual issue. I do not think it is a lack of trying from the staff to add depth. Just currently do not appear that attractive to transfer or higher end high school. Seems they go to programs with depth versus a program that shows it can develop Oline players with good skill sets.
Both Berg and Cruz were 87 and seem to be the most nfl potential.
We do not need to recruit 4 star Oline but need guys north of 86 to build long term depth. Combine that with some juco and portal we could build consistency.
Unfortunately right now it seems there has been a number of Oline over the last 5 to 10 years that we lost to injury. Hoping in the future guys can stay healthy.

Not trying to defend the Oline performance over Dino's tenure because there is no way around the fact that it's been pretty bad. Better than most realize and exceeding expectations given the talent that he's had to work with but still, not good enough to be consistently competitive at this level.

I think what most are missing though is how difficult it is to put a solid line together given the quality of recruits we have been able to land, which in itself is reflective of the resources we have dedicated to the position. The fact that we have just recently hired a nutritionist dedicated to the football program should clue people in on the relative lack of resources available. Offensive line is pretty unique when it comes to the talent evaluation and development cycle as it applies to high level college football. Most other positions are dependent on athletic attributes and skills that are observable and for the most part independent of size. For example a wide receiver can show enough speed, flexibility, and ball skills as a high school prospect that you can be pretty confident he will be a competitive player at the college level and it doesn't really matter if he grows another 3 inches or doesn't grow at all. Chances are pretty good either way. Of course you would always love to have a bigger player, all else equal.

It's not like that at all for offensive lineman. There is a massive gap between what you see on film at the high school level and what a player has to look like to be competitive at the D1 level. You can identify movement skills, foot speed, lateral quickness, hip flexibility...you can identify those traits on film. But there is almost always a gap between how strong a player is as a high school player and how strong he will have to be to compete as a D1 player. And this becomes a question of size, how much mass will this player have to add to his frame to achieve that playing strength? Can this player add that much mass to his body? What effect will adding that much mass have on his movement skills? Will his joints be able to cope with that much added mass or will they fail?

So you're put into a position of having to project outcomes. And like with anything involving projected outcomes, it's an inexact science, there are no guarantees, and outcomes vary wildly. There are roughly 18 spots on an 85 man roster to dedicate to OL and of course that number fluctuates, but roughly speaking 3 levels of depth and then a few alternates or rotational players who are usually strictly developmental guys. Then consider the average recruit has a projected development cycle of 2 to 3 years before you can reasonably expect them to be a competitive player. And this is only if their development goes according to your best projection.

From what I know about player development it's roughly a game of thirds. For a competent talent evaluator you can expect one third of your evaluations to be flat wrong and the end product is no where near what you projected. Another third will end up more or less in line with expectations, and the last third will exceed expectations. If you run the numbers this means that out of those 18 spots, roughly 6 will fall into each category, 6 will be really good, 6 will be adequate, 6 will never come close. Now mind you, it doesn't say that all 6 will be Juniors in the same year, there is no predicting when these guys pan out and no control over the timing. It's perfectly reasonable for all the guys in a single recruiting class to be misses, and that can really distort the on field results, but without a doubt it happens.

If you do the math a few things become obvious. Once you layer on the development cycle it means that roughly 7 or 8 of those guys will be at the end of their expected development cycle in any given year. Applying the expected outcomes metric means that out of those 7 or 8 that you can reasonably expect to have a chance at being a competitive player 2-3 of them will not make the cut. 2 or 3 of them will turn out to be average players, and 2 or 3 will be better than you expected they could be. That means you can really only expect 4-6 players that can be reasonably expected to be competitive in any given year. That points to the simple reality that there is zero room for error, and there are just so many places it can go wrong. The position takes so many repetitions to get the details down, to just simply be able to work on that time scale, we're talking about learning to operate in milliseconds. Then to develop muscle memory to be able to execute the different techniques at a high level. Footwork, hand placement, hip flexion, leg drive, swing steps, kick steps, anchoring, sets, drives, reaches. Then layer on all the x's and o's, people don't realize how complex and complicated the game is in the trenches and how much variation there is at the highest levels. Different fronts and pressures, gap assignments and protections and checks, and each system, each coach for that matter has his own language that all of that information is communicated in. Then add the dedication it takes to develop your body, not only in the weight room but also working on flexibility and conditioning. And then layer on nutrition. Guys have gnashed their teeth at the idea of nutrition mattering. That you can just eat pb&j sandwiches and you'll gain all the weight you need. I urge anyone to spend an hour at a training facility where high level athletes train and then come and talk to me about nutrition not mattering. Go spend an hour at a facility where Olympic weight lifters train. I'm not talking about the little 160 pound guys, I'm talking about the big guys, the heavyweights. Most people have no idea how much food those guys have to consume just to maintain the amount of mass on their body in order to generate the levels of output they are sustaining. When you see it, I don't know what word to use other than shocking. To try to give some perspective, I will guarantee that not a single one of those guys likes food or enjoys eating...every single one of them looks at eating like it is a tedious chore.

All that said it's a wonder we end up with a decent line at all. And then factor in, that to be just flat out dead honest, we are working with the leftovers, the guys nobody else wanted and for the most part SU was their only option if they wanted to play D1 ball, it puts the Oline woes into perspective.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Not trying to defend the Oline performance over Dino's tenure because there is no way around the fact that it's been pretty bad. Better than most realize and exceeding expectations given the talent that he's had to work with but still, not good enough to be consistently competitive at this level.

I think what most are missing though is how difficult it is to put a solid line together given the quality of recruits we have been able to land, which in itself is reflective of the resources we have dedicated to the position. The fact that we have just recently hired a nutritionist dedicated to the football program should clue people in on the relative lack of resources available. Offensive line is pretty unique when it comes to the talent evaluation and development cycle as it applies to high level college football. Most other positions are dependent on athletic attributes and skills that are observable and for the most part independent of size. For example a wide receiver can show enough speed, flexibility, and ball skills as a high school prospect that you can be pretty confident he will be a competitive player at the college level and it doesn't really matter if he grows another 3 inches or doesn't grow at all. Chances are pretty good either way. Of course you would always love to have a bigger player, all else equal.

It's not like that at all for offensive lineman. There is a massive gap between what you see on film at the high school level and what a player has to look like to be competitive at the D1 level. You can identify movement skills, foot speed, lateral quickness, hip flexibility...you can identify those traits on film. But there is almost always a gap between how strong a player is as a high school player and how strong he will have to be to compete as a D1 player. And this becomes a question of size, how much mass will this player have to add to his frame to achieve that playing strength? Can this player add that much mass to his body? What effect will adding that much mass have on his movement skills? Will his joints be able to cope with that much added mass or will they fail?

So you're put into a position of having to project outcomes. And like with anything involving projected outcomes, it's an inexact science, there are no guarantees, and outcomes vary wildly. There are roughly 18 spots on an 85 man roster to dedicate to OL and of course that number fluctuates, but roughly speaking 3 levels of depth and then a few alternates or rotational players who are usually strictly developmental guys. Then consider the average recruit has a projected development cycle of 2 to 3 years before you can reasonably expect them to be a competitive player. And this is only if their development goes according to your best projection.

From what I know about player development it's roughly a game of thirds. For a competent talent evaluator you can expect one third of your evaluations to be flat wrong and the end product is no where near what you projected. Another third will end up more or less in line with expectations, and the last third will exceed expectations. If you run the numbers this means that out of those 18 spots, roughly 6 will fall into each category, 6 will be really good, 6 will be adequate, 6 will never come close. Now mind you, it doesn't say that all 6 will be Juniors in the same year, there is no predicting when these guys pan out and no control over the timing. It's perfectly reasonable for all the guys in a single recruiting class to be misses, and that can really distort the on field results, but without a doubt it happens.

If you do the math a few things become obvious. Once you layer on the development cycle it means that roughly 7 or 8 of those guys will be at the end of their expected development cycle in any given year. Applying the expected outcomes metric means that out of those 7 or 8 that you can reasonably expect to have a chance at being a competitive player 2-3 of them will not make the cut. 2 or 3 of them will turn out to be average players, and 2 or 3 will be better than you expected they could be. That means you can really only expect 4-6 players that can be reasonably expected to be competitive in any given year. That points to the simple reality that there is zero room for error, and there are just so many places it can go wrong. The position takes so many repetitions to get the details down, to just simply be able to work on that time scale, we're talking about learning to operate in milliseconds. Then to develop muscle memory to be able to execute the different techniques at a high level. Footwork, hand placement, hip flexion, leg drive, swing steps, kick steps, anchoring, sets, drives, reaches. Then layer on all the x's and o's, people don't realize how complex and complicated the game is in the trenches and how much variation there is at the highest levels. Different fronts and pressures, gap assignments and protections and checks, and each system, each coach for that matter has his own language that all of that information is communicated in. Then add the dedication it takes to develop your body, not only in the weight room but also working on flexibility and conditioning. And then layer on nutrition. Guys have gnashed their teeth at the idea of nutrition mattering. That you can just eat pb&j sandwiches and you'll gain all the weight you need. I urge anyone to spend an hour at a training facility where high level athletes train and then come and talk to me about nutrition not mattering. Go spend an hour at a facility where Olympic weight lifters train. I'm not talking about the little 160 pound guys, I'm talking about the big guys, the heavyweights. Most people have no idea how much food those guys have to consume just to maintain the amount of mass on their body in order to generate the levels of output they are sustaining. When you see it, I don't know what word to use other than shocking. To try to give some perspective, I will guarantee that not a single one of those guys likes food or enjoys eating...every single one of them looks at eating like it is a tedious chore.

All that said it's a wonder we end up with a decent line at all. And then factor in, that to be just flat out dead honest, we are working with the leftovers, the guys nobody else wanted and for the most part SU was their only option if they wanted to play D1 ball, it puts the Oline woes into perspective.

Anyone got the Cliff Notes version?!

 

[blizz]

Anyone got the Cliff Notes version?!

Recruiting and developing oline is hard.

 

[Cusefan69]

Recruiting and developing oline is hard.

Great breakdown above on the challenges. That's why our program always will need that dual threat QB. In a perfect world we have a second QB because a dual threat style is going to result in injuries. That's why it's great Dino has a pretty strong QB room currently. We will need it because injuries will occur to GS. As an aside, I would have Nil set aside every year for a new oline recruit the coaches want.

 

[kuethstheman]

You're really saying that Carter was better than Tucker? Tucker had that electricity that we hadn't seen since Joe Morris. Carter was a top-shelf running back, but not the same as Morris and Tucker.

Pre-injury, Carter had that same electricity. We'll never know if he would have been as good or better than Tucker.

 

[TheCusian]

Not trying to defend the Oline performance over Dino's tenure because there is no way around the fact that it's been pretty bad. Better than most realize and exceeding expectations given the talent that he's had to work with but still, not good enough to be consistently competitive at this level.

I think what most are missing though is how difficult it is to put a solid line together given the quality of recruits we have been able to land, which in itself is reflective of the resources we have dedicated to the position. The fact that we have just recently hired a nutritionist dedicated to the football program should clue people in on the relative lack of resources available. Offensive line is pretty unique when it comes to the talent evaluation and development cycle as it applies to high level college football. Most other positions are dependent on athletic attributes and skills that are observable and for the most part independent of size. For example a wide receiver can show enough speed, flexibility, and ball skills as a high school prospect that you can be pretty confident he will be a competitive player at the college level and it doesn't really matter if he grows another 3 inches or doesn't grow at all. Chances are pretty good either way. Of course you would always love to have a bigger player, all else equal.

It's not like that at all for offensive lineman. There is a massive gap between what you see on film at the high school level and what a player has to look like to be competitive at the D1 level. You can identify movement skills, foot speed, lateral quickness, hip flexibility...you can identify those traits on film. But there is almost always a gap between how strong a player is as a high school player and how strong he will have to be to compete as a D1 player. And this becomes a question of size, how much mass will this player have to add to his frame to achieve that playing strength? Can this player add that much mass to his body? What effect will adding that much mass have on his movement skills? Will his joints be able to cope with that much added mass or will they fail?

So you're put into a position of having to project outcomes. And like with anything involving projected outcomes, it's an inexact science, there are no guarantees, and outcomes vary wildly. There are roughly 18 spots on an 85 man roster to dedicate to OL and of course that number fluctuates, but roughly speaking 3 levels of depth and then a few alternates or rotational players who are usually strictly developmental guys. Then consider the average recruit has a projected development cycle of 2 to 3 years before you can reasonably expect them to be a competitive player. And this is only if their development goes according to your best projection.

From what I know about player development it's roughly a game of thirds. For a competent talent evaluator you can expect one third of your evaluations to be flat wrong and the end product is no where near what you projected. Another third will end up more or less in line with expectations, and the last third will exceed expectations. If you run the numbers this means that out of those 18 spots, roughly 6 will fall into each category, 6 will be really good, 6 will be adequate, 6 will never come close. Now mind you, it doesn't say that all 6 will be Juniors in the same year, there is no predicting when these guys pan out and no control over the timing. It's perfectly reasonable for all the guys in a single recruiting class to be misses, and that can really distort the on field results, but without a doubt it happens.

If you do the math a few things become obvious. Once you layer on the development cycle it means that roughly 7 or 8 of those guys will be at the end of their expected development cycle in any given year. Applying the expected outcomes metric means that out of those 7 or 8 that you can reasonably expect to have a chance at being a competitive player 2-3 of them will not make the cut. 2 or 3 of them will turn out to be average players, and 2 or 3 will be better than you expected they could be. That means you can really only expect 4-6 players that can be reasonably expected to be competitive in any given year. That points to the simple reality that there is zero room for error, and there are just so many places it can go wrong. The position takes so many repetitions to get the details down, to just simply be able to work on that time scale, we're talking about learning to operate in milliseconds. Then to develop muscle memory to be able to execute the different techniques at a high level. Footwork, hand placement, hip flexion, leg drive, swing steps, kick steps, anchoring, sets, drives, reaches. Then layer on all the x's and o's, people don't realize how complex and complicated the game is in the trenches and how much variation there is at the highest levels. Different fronts and pressures, gap assignments and protections and checks, and each system, each coach for that matter has his own language that all of that information is communicated in. Then add the dedication it takes to develop your body, not only in the weight room but also working on flexibility and conditioning. And then layer on nutrition. Guys have gnashed their teeth at the idea of nutrition mattering. That you can just eat pb&j sandwiches and you'll gain all the weight you need. I urge anyone to spend an hour at a training facility where high level athletes train and then come and talk to me about nutrition not mattering. Go spend an hour at a facility where Olympic weight lifters train. I'm not talking about the little 160 pound guys, I'm talking about the big guys, the heavyweights. Most people have no idea how much food those guys have to consume just to maintain the amount of mass on their body in order to generate the levels of output they are sustaining. When you see it, I don't know what word to use other than shocking. To try to give some perspective, I will guarantee that not a single one of those guys likes food or enjoys eating...every single one of them looks at eating like it is a tedious chore.

All that said it's a wonder we end up with a decent line at all. And then factor in, that to be just flat out dead honest, we are working with the leftovers, the guys nobody else wanted and for the most part SU was their only option if they wanted to play D1 ball, it puts the Oline woes into perspective.

“Only option to play D1” ball is a bit much - maybe you meant P5?

There’s a lot of offers to a lot of kids that say exactly where they were coming out of HS

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Not trying to defend the Oline performance over Dino's tenure because there is no way around the fact that it's been pretty bad. Better than most realize and exceeding expectations given the talent that he's had to work with but still, not good enough to be consistently competitive at this level.

I think what most are missing though is how difficult it is to put a solid line together given the quality of recruits we have been able to land, which in itself is reflective of the resources we have dedicated to the position. The fact that we have just recently hired a nutritionist dedicated to the football program should clue people in on the relative lack of resources available. Offensive line is pretty unique when it comes to the talent evaluation and development cycle as it applies to high level college football. Most other positions are dependent on athletic attributes and skills that are observable and for the most part independent of size. For example a wide receiver can show enough speed, flexibility, and ball skills as a high school prospect that you can be pretty confident he will be a competitive player at the college level and it doesn't really matter if he grows another 3 inches or doesn't grow at all. Chances are pretty good either way. Of course you would always love to have a bigger player, all else equal.

It's not like that at all for offensive lineman. There is a massive gap between what you see on film at the high school level and what a player has to look like to be competitive at the D1 level. You can identify movement skills, foot speed, lateral quickness, hip flexibility...you can identify those traits on film. But there is almost always a gap between how strong a player is as a high school player and how strong he will have to be to compete as a D1 player. And this becomes a question of size, how much mass will this player have to add to his frame to achieve that playing strength? Can this player add that much mass to his body? What effect will adding that much mass have on his movement skills? Will his joints be able to cope with that much added mass or will they fail?

So you're put into a position of having to project outcomes. And like with anything involving projected outcomes, it's an inexact science, there are no guarantees, and outcomes vary wildly. There are roughly 18 spots on an 85 man roster to dedicate to OL and of course that number fluctuates, but roughly speaking 3 levels of depth and then a few alternates or rotational players who are usually strictly developmental guys. Then consider the average recruit has a projected development cycle of 2 to 3 years before you can reasonably expect them to be a competitive player. And this is only if their development goes according to your best projection.

From what I know about player development it's roughly a game of thirds. For a competent talent evaluator you can expect one third of your evaluations to be flat wrong and the end product is no where near what you projected. Another third will end up more or less in line with expectations, and the last third will exceed expectations. If you run the numbers this means that out of those 18 spots, roughly 6 will fall into each category, 6 will be really good, 6 will be adequate, 6 will never come close. Now mind you, it doesn't say that all 6 will be Juniors in the same year, there is no predicting when these guys pan out and no control over the timing. It's perfectly reasonable for all the guys in a single recruiting class to be misses, and that can really distort the on field results, but without a doubt it happens.

If you do the math a few things become obvious. Once you layer on the development cycle it means that roughly 7 or 8 of those guys will be at the end of their expected development cycle in any given year. Applying the expected outcomes metric means that out of those 7 or 8 that you can reasonably expect to have a chance at being a competitive player 2-3 of them will not make the cut. 2 or 3 of them will turn out to be average players, and 2 or 3 will be better than you expected they could be. That means you can really only expect 4-6 players that can be reasonably expected to be competitive in any given year. That points to the simple reality that there is zero room for error, and there are just so many places it can go wrong. The position takes so many repetitions to get the details down, to just simply be able to work on that time scale, we're talking about learning to operate in milliseconds. Then to develop muscle memory to be able to execute the different techniques at a high level. Footwork, hand placement, hip flexion, leg drive, swing steps, kick steps, anchoring, sets, drives, reaches. Then layer on all the x's and o's, people don't realize how complex and complicated the game is in the trenches and how much variation there is at the highest levels. Different fronts and pressures, gap assignments and protections and checks, and each system, each coach for that matter has his own language that all of that information is communicated in. Then add the dedication it takes to develop your body, not only in the weight room but also working on flexibility and conditioning. And then layer on nutrition. Guys have gnashed their teeth at the idea of nutrition mattering. That you can just eat pb&j sandwiches and you'll gain all the weight you need. I urge anyone to spend an hour at a training facility where high level athletes train and then come and talk to me about nutrition not mattering. Go spend an hour at a facility where Olympic weight lifters train. I'm not talking about the little 160 pound guys, I'm talking about the big guys, the heavyweights. Most people have no idea how much food those guys have to consume just to maintain the amount of mass on their body in order to generate the levels of output they are sustaining. When you see it, I don't know what word to use other than shocking. To try to give some perspective, I will guarantee that not a single one of those guys likes food or enjoys eating...every single one of them looks at eating like it is a tedious chore.

All that said it's a wonder we end up with a decent line at all. And then factor in, that to be just flat out dead honest, we are working with the leftovers, the guys nobody else wanted and for the most part SU was their only option if they wanted to play D1 ball, it puts the Oline woes into perspective.

Marrone was able to build a good enough OL that Shafer made a Bowl as a HC.

Chances are we will have a below par OL. It happened in the 90s too. Our QBs were running for their lives every other pass play. Which is why we need a dual threat QB. We also probably need to be a run first team, which is easier to block. When we have a strong run game we tend to have better seasons. Although last year we didn't and we got to 7 Ws.

The OL IMO is more on the coaches than any other position. They need to be able to evaluate talent, physically develop talent, and teach technique.

Teams like Kansas, Duke, Vandy, Northwestern lack talent. Yet all were able to allow less than 2 sacks per game vs FBS competition. We allowed 3.58 sacks per game which is more than twice the amount as the worst of the above 4 teams. We had the same amount of passing attempts as Kansas, less than Duke and Northwestern, and more than Vandy. So you cannot use the we throw the ball more excuse.

We will never have a strong OL year in and year out. But it shouldn't be as bad as it has been under Babers.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Recruiting and developing oline is hard.

It isn't easy by any means but there is also a lot of opportunity if your OL coach has an eye for talent. There are a lot of diamonds in the rough. Big time programs are looking at plug and play guys.

 

[sutomcat]

It isn't easy by any means but there is also a lot of opportunity if your OL coach has an eye for talent. There are a lot of diamonds in the rough. Big time programs are looking at plug and play guys.

Coaches with an eye for talent...this is so important to a program like Syracuse.

If we miss Tony White, I think it will be here. He was really good at identifying HS athletes who would develop into good contributors at the P5 level very quickly. Most were not very heavily recruited.

Some of this has to be good development skills as well but I think he had a real gift for being able to determine which athletes would be successful in the 3-3-5.

Hope he got all that from Coach Long and Coach Long can do similar things in this area.

We really need someone on the offensive side who can do this kind of thing. Coach Cavanaugh and Coach Schmidt seemed to struggle here. Probably not very fair to say it about Schmidt given he wasn't here a long time.

We certainly have had a hard time finding good TEs and our WR hit rate has been awful too. Don't think we have done great with RBs but It looks like we are getting better here.

Funny how Coach Babers is seen as an offensive gurus and we have struggled so much to get quality recruits on offense, and seem to have a better recruiting class each year on the defensive side.

Anyway, hoping Coach Farmer and Coach Johnson in particular do a good job getting players on the roster who can be difference makers quickly.

 

[SmilinBob]

Coaches with an eye for talent...this is so important to a program like Syracuse.

If we miss Tony White, I think it will be here. He was really good at identifying HS athletes who would develop into good contributors at the P5 level very quickly. Most were not very heavily recruited.

Tom...do we know it was White that identified or was shown player X was somebody to go after?

 

[sutomcat]

Tom...do we know it was White that identified or was shown player X was somebody to go after?

I believe Tony was largely the decision maker on who to offer on the defensive side. Certainly the other defensive position coaches had and have a say, and surely Coach Babers has final approval on all offers.

But I think Tony played a big role in the process. Have heard others talk about his ability to size up a player after watching a couple of minutes of film. From all accounts, he was great at this.

 

[SmilinBob]

I believe Tony was largely the decision maker on who to offer on the defensive side. Certainly the other defensive position coaches had and have a say, and surely Coach Babers has final approval on all offers.

But I think Tony played a big role in the process. Have heard others talk about his ability to size up a player after watching a couple of minutes of film. From all accounts, he was great at this.

That's not the answer I wanted. Thanks Tom.

 

[djorange1989]

I believe Tony was largely the decision maker on who to offer on the defensive side. Certainly the other defensive position coaches had and have a say, and surely Coach Babers has final approval on all offers.

But I think Tony played a big role in the process. Have heard others talk about his ability to size up a player after watching a couple of minutes of film. From all accounts, he was great at this.

Rocky is excellent at it too, I would expect defensive recruiting to stay solid but offensive side, not just the O line mind you, is where we need to step it up

 

[sutomcat]

That's not the answer I wanted. Thanks Tom.

I assume the defensive staff gets together as a group to evaluate film on various recruits that they are considering offering and they grade them as a group. Probably going through position by position.

But I don't know what really goes on behind closed doors.

An article on how the Syracuse football program evaluates potential future players behind the closed doors would be really interesting from my perspective. I doubt Coach Babers would be willing to let a journalist into an eval meeting but I wonder if he would be okay with a high level discussion on how it all works featuring various members of the staff and Coach Babers?

I doubt there are any proprietary secrets and if no specific recruits were discussed (just the process itself), I would think Coach Babers might be willing to let this happen.

Hint hint journos looking for story ideas....

 

[AngryOtto]

I assume the defensive staff gets together as a group to evaluate film on various recruits that they are considering offering and they grade them as a group. Probably going through position by position.

But I don't know what really goes on behind closed doors.

An article on how the Syracuse football program evaluates potential future players behind the closed doors would be really interesting from my perspective. I doubt Coach Babers would be willing to let a journalist into an eval meeting but I wonder if he would be okay with a high level discussion on how it all works featuring various members of the staff and Coach Babers?

I doubt there are any proprietary secrets and if no specific recruits were discussed (just the process itself), I would think Coach Babers might be willing to let this happen.

Hint hint journos looking for story ideas...

It would be a good read but never going to happen.
DB paranoid that any information will hurt the team.

 

[blizz]

“Only option to play D1” ball is a bit much - maybe you meant P5?

There’s a lot of offers to a lot of kids that say exactly where they were coming out of HS

You are right, P5 is what I meant.

 

[SanDiegoCuse]

Rocky is excellent at it too, I would expect defensive recruiting to stay solid but offensive side, not just the O line mind you, is where we need to step it up

Yes. San Diego State routinely had great defenses with under the radar recruits. Shouldn’t be any drop off in this regard with Rocky.

 

[shu 49]

Marrone was able to build a good enough OL that Shafer made a Bowl as a HC.

Chances are we will have a below par OL. It happened in the 90s too. Our QBs were running for their lives every other pass play. Which is why we need a dual threat QB. We also probably need to be a run first team, which is easier to block. When we have a strong run game we tend to have better seasons. Although last year we didn't and we got to 7 Ws.

The OL IMO is more on the coaches than any other position. They need to be able to evaluate talent, physically develop talent, and teach technique.

Teams like Kansas, Duke, Vandy, Northwestern lack talent. Yet all were able to allow less than 2 sacks per game vs FBS competition. We allowed 3.58 sacks per game which is more than twice the amount as the worst of the above 4 teams. We had the same amount of passing attempts as Kansas, less than Duke and Northwestern, and more than Vandy. So you cannot use the we throw the ball more excuse.

We will never have a strong OL year in and year out. But it shouldn't be as bad as it has been under Babers.

I don’t remember that at all. We had some pretty damn good lines in 90s. Option wizard was hell of a line coach.

 

[baggerbob]

I don’t remember that at all. We had some pretty damn good lines in 90s. Option wizard was hell of a line coach.

And McNabb had a great blocking FB in Rob Konrad which gave us another great blocker on all plays.

 

[SWC75]

I don’t remember that at all. We had some pretty damn good lines in 90s. Option wizard was hell of a line coach.

I remember third and long was our best play - because we had QBs who could scramble and throw on the run to NFL caliber receivers.