Navy to BE in 2015

[bubba1917]

Are you really trying to compare BCS programs like Colorado, Kansas, USC, WVU with schools like Houston and Central Florida? The Big East is simply cobbling together mediocre football programs based out of desperation. The rest of big-time college football isn't grabbing non-BCS schools and trying to "make it work".

There are haves and there are have nots. The new BE conference is clearly a "have not". They are making the best of what they have but it will ultimately be deemed a failure (see: ConferenceUSA). If there is an opportunity for any of the current BCS members (Rutgers, UConn, Louisville, etc) to move to a superior conference, they would be gone in a heartbeat. Thats all you need to know and will be the demise of the conference.

As far as Houston is concerned, I have no words. That's just short-term thinking at its finest. Let's invite teams based upon a 2 year run of success. Tremendous idea. And I will say it again, you don't get the concept of brand name AT ALL. Sounds like you would be happier staying in this minor-league disaster.

As compared to a decade of futility?

 

[Cuseman78]

As compared to a decade of futility?

Another one that doesn't understand that a decade of futility (which is an overstatement by the way) does not tarnish the overall athletic brand of a school. Anybody who thinks a school like Houston or SMU or SDSU is an upgrade over a brand name like Syracuse doesn't really know what they are talking about. There is a reason that we are going to the big leagues and schools like Rutgers and Cincy are not (atleast yet).

 

[OrangePA]

Are you really trying to compare BCS programs like Colorado, Kansas, USC, WVU with schools like Houston and Central Florida? The Big East is simply cobbling together mediocre football programs based out of desperation. The rest of big-time college football isn't grabbing non-BCS schools and trying to "make it work".

There are haves and there are have nots. The new BE conference is clearly a "have not". They are making the best of what they have but it will ultimately be deemed a failure (see: ConferenceUSA). If there is an opportunity for any of the current BCS members (Rutgers, UConn, Louisville, etc) to move to a superior conference, they would be gone in a heartbeat. Thats all you need to know and will be the demise of the conference.

As far as Houston is concerned, I have no words. That's just short-term thinking at its finest. Let's invite teams based upon a 2 year run of success. Tremendous idea. And I will say it again, you don't get the concept of brand name AT ALL. Sounds like you would be happier staying in this minor-league disaster.

Right now, I'd take Houston, SMU and of course Boise State over Colorado any day on the field.

The same is true with Kansas.

University of Houston has a very decent football tradition. Bill Yeoman, the creator of the veer was one of the great coaches in college history. The Cougars over the years have produced some pretty good QBs including Andre Ware, David Klingler, Kevin Kolb and the guy who set all sorts of records this past year.

And Boise is of course one of the premier programs in the USA.

I think you're expressing your hopes regarding the BE - I don't think you're addressing the objective reality.

As I have said many times, I am very pleased that SU is headed to the ACC - for a number of reasons.

But where my thoughts and those of others on this board seem to differ is that I don't see that my feelings about SU moving to the ACC require me to trash the BE. Indeed, the two issues are mutually exclusive.

On this board it seems, if you root for SU you are almost obligated to, I guess, hate Rutgers, hate Paterno, hate Marinatto of the BE and hate all things that are now the BE Football Conference. And you must not only hate, you must refuse to consider or acknowledge anything positive about those schools or people or programs.

I really don't care for Rutgers or Schiano, but I recognize that the Scarlet Knights had a very good defense this year - 0ne that in many respects mauled our offense.

That does not mean of course that I was not rooting as hard as I could for the Orange to destroy the boys from Pisccataway, N.J.

I do not like Ru

 

[Noexcuse]

I really don't care for Rutgers or Schiano, but I recognize that the Scarlet Knights had a very good defense this year - 0ne that in many respects mauled our offense.

Our offense mauled our offense.

 

[SU2NASA]

It will be interesting to see what happens when they play a full conference schedule against BCS opponents. I think they are going to find it harder going...they are by nature undersized and may get worn down pretty badly.

What do the divisions look like if the BE doesn't lose anyone else?

East
Navy
UConn
Rutgers
USF
UCF
UC

West
Louisville
San Diego St
Boise
Houston
SMU
Air Force?

I would think they would have one rival in the opposite division you play each season, like the ACC, so UC will continue to play UL and Air Force will always play Navy.

It really isn't a bad football league. But it isn't the ACC either.

Hey look, they merged ConferenceUSA and the Mountain West.

 

[Cuseman78]

Right now, I'd take Houston, SMU and of course Boise State over Colorado any day on the field.

The same is true with Kansas.

Your statement above just prove yours short-sightedness. You even use the phrase "Right now". Taking a couple of years of on-field results to build a conference is surely a recipe for a failed conference. There is no founding member, there is no flagship, there is no athletic brand name. The conference has zero cache. None.

And in regards to your assertion that I care about what happens to the Big East and am simply projecting my desire that I want it to fail, you couldn't be farther from the truth. I could care less. Its just very clear to me that this collection of misfits is doomed to fail. By anybody's judgement, its essentially a new Mountain West, Conf USA, or WAC. Its not a major conference.

I'm just thrilled that we got a safe landing into a major conference with east coast ties and good academics and didn't end up getting stuck in the existing mess. Can you imagine having to get excited over match-ups with schools like SMU and Houston?

 

[SU2NASA]

Your statement above just prove yours short-sightedness. You even use the phrase "Right now". Taking a couple of years of on-field results to build a conference is surely a recipe for a failed conference. There is no founding member, there is no flagship, there is no athletic brand name. The conference has zero cache. None.

And in regards to your assertion that I care about what happens to the Big East and am simply projecting my desire that I want it to fail, you couldn't be farther from the truth. I could care less. Its just very clear to me that this collection of misfits is doomed to fail. By anybody's judgement, its essentially a new Mountain West, Conf USA, or WAC. Its not a major conference.

I'm just thrilled that we got a safe landing into a major conference with east coast ties and good academics and didn't end up getting stuck in the existing mess. Can you imagine having to get excited over match-ups with schools like SMU and Houston?

How anyone can be disappointed or upset with our move is nuts. This was our best-case scenario. A stable conference with more attractive opponents, along an area where most of our alumni are, that's far more financially lucrative, and leaves our main recruiting rivals stuck in what has become a glorified mid-major.

Seriously, we should all be doing cartwheels down the street while laughing maniacally at the left-behinds.

 

[PhatOrange]

Your statement above just prove yours short-sightedness. You even use the phrase "Right now". Taking a couple of years of on-field results to build a conference is surely a recipe for a failed conference. There is no founding member, there is no flagship, there is no athletic brand name. The conference has zero cache. None.

And in regards to your assertion that I care about what happens to the Big East and am simply projecting my desire that I want it to fail, you couldn't be farther from the truth. I could care less. Its just very clear to me that this collection of misfits is doomed to fail. By anybody's judgement, its essentially a new Mountain West, Conf USA, or WAC. Its not a major conference.

I'm just thrilled that we got a safe landing into a major conference with east coast ties and good academics and didn't end up getting stuck in the existing mess. Can you imagine having to get excited over match-ups with schools like SMU and Houston?

Colorado has a heisman winner and National Championship in the modern era. Taking SMU, Houston or Bosie State over them when forming a football conference is laughable.

 

[Cuseman78]

Colorado has a heisman winner and National Championship in the modern era. Taking SMU, Houston or Bosie State over them when forming a football conference is laughable.

Of course. No conference commissioner building a conference would ever choose Houston over Colorado if forced to choose. I guess if OPA was the Pac 10 commish a couple of years back SMU and Houston would be Pac 10 members instead of Utah and Houston. Give me a break.

The pecking order has been established. The leave behind Big East schools didn't make the cut. Nothing wrong with that, I'm just glad we aren't a part of it. I will leave it to OPA to keep beating the drum for this new conference. Maybe he's been hired to work for Marinatto?

 

[OrangePA]

How anyone can be disappointed or upset with our move is nuts. This was our best-case scenario. A stable conference with more attractive opponents, along an area where most of our alumni are, that's far more financially lucrative, and leaves our main recruiting rivals stuck in what has become a glorified mid-major.

Seriously, we should all be doing cartwheels down the street while laughing maniacally at the left-behinds.

That's the point exactly.

The mere fact that we have chosen to move to the ACC does not mean that we should "laugh" at the BE Conference.

I just don't understand that kind of thinking.

 

[Whitey23]

Stewart Mandel
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RT @murphsturph: Takeaway from Big East call: Navy officials made it clear they didn't feel independence has a future in college football.​

 

[SU2NASA]

The mere fact that we have chosen to move to the ACC does not mean that we should "laugh" at the BE Conference.

Agree, we should focus our laughing and ridicule at UConn and Rutgers.

 

[OrangePA]

Your statement above just prove yours short-sightedness. You even use the phrase "Right now". Taking a couple of years of on-field results to build a conference is surely a recipe for a failed conference. There is no founding member, there is no flagship, there is no athletic brand name. The conference has zero cache. None.

And in regards to your assertion that I care about what happens to the Big East and am simply projecting my desire that I want it to fail, you couldn't be farther from the truth. I could care less. Its just very clear to me that this collection of misfits is doomed to fail. By anybody's judgement, its essentially a new Mountain West, Conf USA, or WAC. Its not a major conference.

I'm just thrilled that we got a safe landing into a major conference with east coast ties and good academics and didn't end up getting stuck in the existing mess. Can you imagine having to get excited over match-ups with schools like SMU and Houston?

No.

You don't understand.

I believe that you are the one who is being short-sighted.

I believe that the BE is showing great foresight.

When I used the phrase "right now" I was responding to your suggestion that the University of Houston or other new BE teams are not worth of teams in other conferences. The fact is that the University of Houston is a very good football team - even if you do not feel any panache from the name. The Cougars beat up a decent Penn State team and could probably beat up SU and every other member of this year's BE conference.

And of course the same holds true for Boise State.

The notion that Boise, Navy, Houston, UCF, SMU and San Diego State are "misfits" is really an untenable statement.

And, your short-sighted presumption that the new BE conference will never inspire interesting rivalries or quality football and will never establish a "brand" I suspect is wrong.

And that's really my point. Brands are not established on day one - they are developed over time.

I believe that over time the BE conference will develope a solid brand.

I have been around long enough to recall the days when few if any fans got excited when Va Tech was put on the SU Football Schedule.

When the play gets better and the teams start to compete against each other, interest will develope.

Again I respectfully submit that you are the one who is being short sighted.

 

[GoSU96]

I think 2015 is due to the CBS College Sports contract. USAFA might be forced to join now.

1. They will be at 11 as of 2015.
2. It makes sense given the set of teams out in the west. Two six team divisions that make geographic sense.

 

[TexanMark]

1. They will be at 11 as of 2015.
2. It makes sense given the set of teams out in the west. Two six team divisions that make geographic sense.

USAFA Olympic sports are atrocious and they might be better served playing in the Summit, Mid-Continent, etc..They will see the writing on the wall and join the SunBeast...they don't want Navy to get an edge. A clusterfluck across the continent actually works for both academies as they recruit nationally. Several traditional USAFA recruit rich areas are in already sporting teams closeby ( TX schools, SDSU and FL). USAFA and Navy both recruit heavily around areas close to military facilities. I see them jumping even if two of Louisville/Cincy/Rutgirls leaves for the B12. The SunBeast would just backfill with Memphis, ECU, Nova or Temple.

 

[Noexcuse]

USAFA Olympic sports are atrocious and they might be better served playing in the Summit, Mid-Continent, etc..They will see the writing on the wall and join the SunBeast...they don't want Navy to get an edge. A clusterfluck across the continent actually works for both academies as they recruit nationally. Several traditional USAFA recruit rich areas are in play. I see them jumping even if two of Louisville/Cincy/Rutgirls leaves for the B12. The SunBeast would just backfill with Memphis, ECU, Nova or Temple.

Don't forget Tulane

 

[Cuseman78]

No.

You don't understand.

I believe that you are the one who is being short-sighted.

I believe that the BE is showing great foresight.

When I used the phrase "right now" I was responding to your suggestion that the University of Houston or other new BE teams are not worth of teams in other conferences. The fact is that the University of Houston is a very good football team - even if you do not feel any panache from the name. The Cougars beat up a decent Penn State team and could probably beat up SU and every other member of this year's BE conference.

And of course the same holds true for Boise State.

The notion that Boise, Navy, Houston, UCF, SMU and San Diego State are "misfits" is really an untenable statement.

And, your short-sighted presumption that the new BE conference will never inspire interesting rivalries or quality football and will never establish a "brand" I suspect is wrong.

And that's really my point. Brands are not established on day one - they are developed over time.

I believe that over time the BE conference will develope a solid brand.

I have been around long enough to recall the days when few if any fans got excited when Va Tech was put on the SU Football Schedule.

When the play gets better and the teams start to compete against each other, interest will develope.

Again I respectfully submit that you are the one who is being short sighted.

I find it hard to believe that you actually believe what you type. I'm floored actually. Nobody can paint a rosier picture of a complete mess than you. Nobody can paint John Marinatto as somehow being a visionary better than you. Amazing stuff.

If you haven't grasped the fact that the new conference is essentially a misfit conference, I can't help you there. There is a reason that Houston or SMU or Boise St or Rutgers weren't chosen to be in the "Big Leagues". Yet you claim that Houston would be a better choice than Colorado. Assinine. I'm pretty sure that the Pac 10 commish had that choice and someone decided to pass on a school like Houston (and rightfully so).

But you keep on banging that drum. You're virtually alone in that parade though. The new conference will be a complete non-entity in big time college football.

 

[OrangePA]

I find it hard to believe that you actually believe what you type. I'm floored actually. Nobody can paint a rosier picture of a complete mess than you. Nobody can paint John Marinatto as somehow being a visionary better than you. Amazing stuff.

If you haven't grasped the fact that the new conference is essentially a misfit conference, I can't help you there. There is a reason that Houston or SMU or Boise St or Rutgers weren't chosen to be in the "Big Leagues". Yet you claim that Houston would be a better choice than Colorado. Assinine. I'm pretty sure that the Pac 10 commish had that choice and someone decided to pass on a school like Houston (and rightfully so).

But you keep on banging that drum. You're virtually alone in that parade though. The new conference will be a complete non-entity in big time college football.

You create much heat but shed little light with your statements.

And you make presumptions and offer conclusions that have no basis in fact.

I never "claimed that Houston would be a better choice than Colorado"

I have no idea what you're talking about.

My only observation about Colorado was in response to your silly statement that the University of Houston Football Program is a misfit. I pointed out that the Cougars would crush Colorado and Kansas - two members of the "Big Leagues"

And I would never presume to conclude why Boise State and the others were "not chosen" to join other conferences. I don't know anything about whatever discussions took place in that regard - if they took place. And neither do you. If you are suggesting that the Boise Football Program is not an appealing one or not a competitive one, I think you're quite wrong.

And though I don't know for sure why the ACC decided to invite SU rather than say, Rutgers, I do recall Coach K apparently insisting that the ACC upgrade its basketball status. In other words, it seems that BB might have been a major factor in the decision to invite SU.

Another thing that you simply refuse to acknowledge is that I am lookin long term when viewing the BE.

Right now, it is in the process of developing. Of course it's not on par with the "Big Leagues"

But the strategy that the BE is employing is clever. It is bringing in some very solid programs.

And it is establishing a national TV market.

You can hurl your bluster all you want, but the objective facts are clear - the BE is proceeding in a very positive direction.

 

[Stern]

I don't see this as funny.

The Navy program has been a very solid program over the past few years.

Highly respected - national program - probably good TV ratings.

Adding Navy along with SMU, UCF, Boise State, San Diego State, University of Houston is a real positive - not a laugh a minute.

Some can try all they want to hope that the BE is devolving. The fact is that on the whole the conference is getting better. While the loss of WVU hurts, the same is really not all that true - in terms of football as it stands right now - when discussing Pitt and SU.

HA HA HA...this is even funnier. You actually believe this nonsense!

The "new" Big East sucks. I'm sorry when you have to prop up Navy and sell people on them being legit and a good add, that's how bad the conference is and has fallen. If they are so damn good how come nobody has added them until now? I will wait for that answer. When the BCS blows up and just becomes 1 game and they let the Sugar, Orange, and Fiesta go to bowl tie-in's and the "Big East Champ" is locked into the Champs Bowl (if they can even retain that bowl tie-in, most likely the champ will be locked into the Meineke Car Care Bowl or the Beef O Brady Bowl or whatever its called)...that's WHEN you know the Big East is officially DEAD!

But keep hitting the pipe and living in la-la land!

 

[OrangePA]

HA HA HA...this is even funnier. You actually believe this nonsense!

The "new" Big East sucks. I'm sorry when you have to prop up Navy and sell people on them being legit and a good add, that's how bad the conference is and has fallen. If they are so damn good how come nobody has added them until now? I will wait for that answer. When the BCS blows up and just becomes 1 game and they let the Sugar, Orange, and Fiesta go to bowl tie-in's and the "Big East Champ" is locked into the Champs Bowl (if they can even retain that bowl tie-in, most likely the champ will be locked into the Meineke Car Care Bowl or the Beef O Brady Bowl or whatever its called)...that's WHEN you know the Big East is officially DEAD!

But keep hitting the pipe and living in la-la land!

Rapier-like analysis.

 

[Scooch]

I believe that the BE is showing great foresight.

OPA, I admire your moxie, but the BE is doing nothing more than desperately trying to survive.

That's cool, they should be desperately trying to survive.

But "foresight" would have been doing things like this 10 years ago.

What's happening now is the definition of "reactive".

 

[HurleyForHeisman]

I find it hard to believe that you actually believe what you type. I'm floored actually. Nobody can paint a rosier picture of a complete mess than you. Nobody can paint John Marinatto as somehow being a visionary better than you. Amazing stuff.

If you haven't grasped the fact that the new conference is essentially a misfit conference, I can't help you there. There is a reason that Houston or SMU or Boise St or Rutgers weren't chosen to be in the "Big Leagues". Yet you claim that Houston would be a better choice than Colorado. Assinine. I'm pretty sure that the Pac 10 commish had that choice and someone decided to pass on a school like Houston (and rightfully so).

But you keep on banging that drum. You're virtually alone in that parade though. The new conference will be a complete non-entity in big time college football.

I agree with Orange PA that the Big East has done an excellent job in constructing a football conference that has the potential to succeed. I am hopeful that it will. If a playoff system is implemented for college football, I think the new new Big East will prove to be a worthy contender on the field.

There were many who scoffed at the original Big East basketball conference, in a similar manner to your criticisms, and they were proved wrong. I think you will also be proved wrong.

Finally, you might consider toning down your ad hominem attacks. They do not make you more persuasive.

 

[Cuseman78]

You create much heat but shed little light with your statements.

And you make presumptions and offer conclusions that have no basis in fact.

I never "claimed that Houston would be a better choice than Colorado"

I have no idea what you're talking about.

My only observation about Colorado was in response to your silly statement that the University of Houston Football Program is a misfit. I pointed out that the Cougars would crush Colorado and Kansas - two members of the "Big Leagues"

And I would never presume to conclude why Boise State and the others were "not chosen" to join other conferences. I don't know anything about whatever discussions took place in that regard - if they took place. And neither do you. If you are suggesting that the Boise Football Program is not an appealing one or not a competitive one, I think you're quite wrong.

And though I don't know for sure why the ACC decided to invite SU rather than say, Rutgers, I do recall Coach K apparently insisting that the ACC upgrade its basketball status. In other words, it seems that BB might have been a major factor in the decision to invite SU.

Another thing that you simply refuse to acknowledge is that I am lookin long term when viewing the BE.

Right now, it is in the process of developing. Of course it's not on par with the "Big Leagues"

But the strategy that the BE is employing is clever. It is bringing in some very solid programs.

And it is establishing a national TV market.

You can hurl your bluster all you want, but the objective facts are clear - the BE is proceeding in a very positive direction.

We're talking in circles here. You don't really get it so I'm going to step out of this so you can keep painting rosy pictures of your favorite league.

And, FYI, Syracuse was chosen over a school like Rutgers in large part because of BRAND. Its the reason this new league is doomed to failure. No brand names, no anchors.

 

[rrlbees]

The BE promised Navy they could play all home games on Saturdays. Every team created equal in the ol' BE. LOL. What a cluster that conference is. It's death is not too far off.

 

[Cuseman78]

I agree with Orange PA that the Big East has done an excellent job in constructing a football conference that has the potential to succeed. I am hopeful that it will. If a playoff system is implemented for college football, I think the new new Big East will prove to be a worthy contender on the field.

There were many who scoffed at the original Big East basketball conference, in a similar manner to your criticisms, and they were proved wrong. I think you will also be proved wrong.

Finally, you might consider toning down your ad hominem attacks. They do not make you more persuasive.

Thanks for the advice big guy. I'll get right on that.

And I've heard it all. The Big East has officially done an excellent job. You and OPA have went and lost your damn minds.