NBA 2018-2019

[Day2]

They’ve been better but that’s a bit irrelevant now because Lakers have LeBron, AD and if Kawhi joins they’ll be the head and shoulders favorite to win it all and Clippers won’t be if Kawhi joins. Players probably like Doc more than Vogel but I don’t think it’s like players hate Vogel and don’t want to play for him.

Also, as far as ownership/FO goes I wouldn’t underestimate the weight of Lakers taking care of Kobe in that last contract when they knew he was declining versus Balmer courting Blake with a fake jersey retirement ceremony, being a main Clippers legend and then turning around and shipping him out to Detroit. Blake brought Clippers back to relevancy and was treated like that so who do you think players trust more?

Like I’ve been saying, no idea if Kawhi actually joins the Lakers but if you cut out the media noise and speculation I think Lakers are most appealing situation and Kawhi has more reason to be attracted to the Lakers than people want to admit.

Keep underestimating the Clippers.

 

[Horn88]

I don't recall anyone ever disputing that the LA Lakers were, are, or haven't always been a destination locale.

You expressed surprise that players don't view the Clippers the same way they used to when Donald Sterling owned the team. I'm just pointing out that they've become a viable free agency destination, mostly due to also being in LA, but also because they've been winning, Doc is universally regarded as a player's coach, etc. But I certainly do not contest that the Lakers have a far richer history.

99.9% convinced that Kawhi isn't going to the Lakers. He's an alpha, he probably doesn't want to be in LeBron's shadow -- he's a multi-time / multi-team champion who has shown that he can carry a team. He's far more likely to go to a good team and take them to the next level than he is trying to shackle his wagon to a super team. It makes a lot more sense for a player like AD [who's never won one] to make that step.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I don’t think current players view the Clippers as a mess. I just said in Kawhi’s situation I think Toronto and the Lakers offer more appealing situations based on what he might want. The Clippers are a bit of a hybrid of the two. If you want to go home and win as much as you can then the Lakers are better but if you want your own team and to be the man with a contender built around you I’d trust Masai and stay where you literally just did that a week ago.

I very well might be wrong. Just giving my opinion on his decision from my perspective.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don’t think current players view the Clippers as a mess. I just said in Kawhi’s situation I think Toronto and the Lakers offer more appealing situations based on what he might want. The Clippers are a bit of a hybrid of the two. If you want to go home and win as much as you can then the Lakers are better but if you want your own team and to be the man with a contender built around you I’d trust Masai and stay where you literally just did that a week ago.

I very well might be wrong. Just giving my opinion on his decision from my perspective.

Why are the Lakers better equipped to win?

They have the less accomplished coach.

It's an unknown how much talent they will reasonably add.

They've traded away all contract and draft assets so their flex is pretty limited.

For all of Davis's talent he's never really won anything and seldom took his teams to the playoffs.

The ownership and front office don't exactly inspire confidence.

LeBron teams always have drama.

 

[Horn88]

Why are the Lakers better equipped to win?

They have the less accomplished coach.

It's an unknown how much talent they will reasonably add.

They've traded away all contract and draft assets so their flex is pretty limited.

For all of Davis's talent he's never really won anything and seldom took his teams to the playoffs.

The ownership and front office don't exactly inspire confidence.

LeBron teams always have drama.

I think this is one of those situations where your LeBron hate clouds facts. Lakers would have 3 of the top 5-7 players in the world and probably won’t have a shortage of guys who would want to ring chase in LA and be a role player on a team with Kawhi, LeBron and AD. They’d be the overwhelming favorites to win the championship next year.

Players will trust Lakers front office over Clippers front office when you look at the Kobe vs. Blake situations. Despite the noise and media narrative on Lakers, the last 12 months the Lakers front office landed LeBron and AD and opened up cap space to land a third max guy or build out great depth. Maybe it’s luck over ability but the results are the results and are on par the last 12 months with pretty much anyone.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If Curry still wants to play with Durant I think it’s all but a done deal that KD goes back to the Warriors based on what I’ve read.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think this is one of those situations where your LeBron hate clouds facts. Lakers would have 3 of the top 5-7 players in the world and probably won’t have a shortage of guys who would want to ring chase in LA and be a role player on a team with Kawhi, LeBron and AD. They’d be the overwhelming favorites to win the championship next year.

Players will trust Lakers front office over Clippers front office when you look at the Kobe vs. Blake situations. Despite the noise and media narrative on Lakers, the last 12 months the Lakers front office landed LeBron and AD and opened up cap space to land a third max guy or build out great depth. Maybe it’s luck over ability but the results are the results and are on par the last 12 months with pretty much anyone.

Lebron is going to decline or get hurt at some point. He’s almost 35. One injury to he or AD with no depth and they aren’t winning anything.

 

[Alsacs]

Woj just said the Celtics and Walker will agree to a deal around 6pm tomorrow.
Said Kemba made his decision last night.

 

[Knicks411]

I think this is one of those situations where your LeBron hate clouds facts. Lakers would have 3 of the top 5-7 players in the world and probably won’t have a shortage of guys who would want to ring chase in LA and be a role player on a team with Kawhi, LeBron and AD. They’d be the overwhelming favorites to win the championship next year.

Players will trust Lakers front office over Clippers front office when you look at the Kobe vs. Blake situations. Despite the noise and media narrative on Lakers, the last 12 months the Lakers front office landed LeBron and AD and opened up cap space to land a third max guy or build out great depth. Maybe it’s luck over ability but the results are the results and are on par the last 12 months with pretty much anyone.

I pretty much agree with this; if you the Lakers land Kawhi, you're talking three of the absolute best players in the league on their team. They would absolutely have limited depth (I guess they could add someone with the room exception and then the vet minimums) and that is an issue, but if you get to the playoffs an you have those 3 going, I dunno, I kinda think it may not matter.

But Kawhi and KD are going to the Knicks so this is all irrelevant.

Lebron is going to decline or get hurt at some point. He’s almost 35. One injury to he or AD with no depth and they aren’t winning anything.

I guess to devils advocate my own point from above; Lebron already did get hurt and it took him a lot longer than expected to come back. But to re-devils advocate, I'm not totally sure how much weight the "one injury and they aren't winning anything" point should carry. Most teams aren't going to win a title if they lose their best player.

Woj just said the Celtics and Walker will agree to a deal around 6pm tomorrow.
Said Kemba made his decision last night.

It's so funny to me how there's absolutely not supposed to be any negotiating in this period, they have an explicit one week period for negotiating before any contracts can be signed, yet we know Kemba Walker is going to sign with a new team, presumably because he negotiated with them.

 

[Alsacs]

I pretty much agree with this; if you the Lakers land Kawhi, you're talking three of the absolute best players in the league on their team. They would absolutely have limited depth (I guess they could add someone with the room exception and then the vet minimums) and that is an issue, but if you get to the playoffs an you have those 3 going, I dunno, I kinda think it may not matter.

But Kawhi and KD are going to the Knicks so this is all irrelevant.



I guess to devils advocate my own point from above; Lebron already did get hurt and it took him a lot longer than expected to come back. But to re-devils advocate, I'm not totally sure how much weight the "one injury and they aren't winning anything" point should carry. Most teams aren't going to win a title if they lose their best player.



It's so funny to me how there's absolutely not supposed to be any negotiating in this period, they have an explicit one week period for negotiating before any contracts can be signed, yet we know Kemba Walker is going to sign with a new team, presumably because he negotiated with them.

I think agents can talk with teams and basically get cover from tampering as long as the agent and team don’t make it official and are just talking.
There is no doubt though Kemba or his camp didn’t like the 5-160 offer the Hornets made and decided for Boston over Dallas before FA started.

 

[Horn88]

Lebron is going to decline or get hurt at some point. He’s almost 35. One injury to he or AD with no depth and they aren’t winning anything.

That’s the appeal though with AD being there. He and AD are on the same career timeline and still give you a duo of 2 of the top 5-7 players in the world and if LeBron leaves or retires or whatever when his deal is done his max contract is off the books to build around those two.

You could say the injury bug can take down anyone though. And if AD or LeBron get hurt then you’re still going through the playoffs with either LeBron or AD as your partner out there.

Also, having two other superstars helps with load management throughout the regular season which is going to become more and more important to players.

 

[Knicks411]

I think agents can talk with teams and basically get cover from tampering as long as the agent and team don’t make it official and are just talking.
There is no doubt though Kemba or his camp didn’t like the 5-160 offer the Hornets made and decided for Boston over Dallas before FA started.

I thought that is what is supposed to happen starting tomorrow at 6!

Don't get me wrong, I don't care, it's all fine, it's just funny to me. The supermax strikes again too; just the fact that the Hornets could offer it and didn't hurts them, even if Boston can't beat their current offer.

That’s the appeal though with AD being there. He and AD are on the same career timeline and still give you a duo of 2 of the top 5-7 players in the world and if LeBron leaves or retires or whatever when his deal is done his max contract is off the books to build around those two.

You could say the injury bug can take down anyone though. And if AD or LeBron get hurt then you’re still going through the playoffs with either LeBron or AD as your partner out there.

Also, having two other superstars helps with load management throughout the regular season which is going to become more and more important to players.

Right, like I said, any team who loses one of their 2 best players probably isn't winning the title, and the only team I can think of that really had a chance was Golden State, and that sure wasn't because of all the great depth they had built up. It was cause they still had great players!

 

[Cusefan0307]

That’s the appeal though with AD being there. He and AD are on the same career timeline and still give you a duo of 2 of the top 5-7 players in the world and if LeBron leaves or retires or whatever when his deal is done his max contract is off the books to build around those two.

You could say the injury bug can take down anyone though. And if AD or LeBron get hurt then you’re still going through the playoffs with either LeBron or AD as your partner out there.

Also, having two other superstars helps with load management throughout the regular season which is going to become more and more important to players.

Depends who the players around them are. If there’s no shooting they are going to have problems. Anyway don’t think it matters much as I think the Kawhi rumor is just media noise because the media wants the Lakers and lebron relevant.

 

[Horn88]

Depends who the players around them are. If there’s no shooting they are going to have problems. Anyway don’t think it matters much as I think the Kawhi rumor is just media noise because the media wants the Lakers and lebron relevant.

Lakers have LeBron and AD and $32M in cap space to spend on a deep free agent class. They’re going to be relevant if Kawhi ends up there or not.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Lakers have LeBron and AD and $32M in cap space to spend on a deep free agent class. They’re going to be relevant if Kawhi ends up there or not.

Not exactly the point I was trying to make. They have incentive to wanting Kawhi there. Counterpoint to them being relevant no matter what is if they sign role players to long term deals and end up struggling they have zero assets to trade to another team to get better. The team they start the season with they are stuck with.

 

[jncuse]

Current Kawhi Standings

Lakers 45%
Raptors 45%
Clippers 10%

Everybody assumes that Kawhi is an "Alpha". But based on what -- just watching him?

Here are 2 things:
1) The most important factor for Kawhi has always been to play close to home. Most important does not necessarily the only factor. It can be offeet by multiple factors going the other way.

2) Lebron and Kawhi are actually very good friends. Info has been coming out that they have talked regularly during the season and Lebron met him at least twice during the playoffs.

Ballmer silly tactics are not going to work.

 

[Day2]

I think this is one of those situations where your LeBron hate clouds facts. Lakers would have 3 of the top 5-7 players in the world and probably won’t have a shortage of guys who would want to ring chase in LA and be a role player on a team with Kawhi, LeBron and AD. They’d be the overwhelming favorites to win the championship next year.

Players will trust Lakers front office over Clippers front office when you look at the Kobe vs. Blake situations. Despite the noise and media narrative on Lakers, the last 12 months the Lakers front office landed LeBron and AD and opened up cap space to land a third max guy or build out great depth. Maybe it’s luck over ability but the results are the results and are on par the last 12 months with pretty much anyone.

Kobe won five titles with the Lakers and is one of the greatest players of all time. Griffin can dunk. There’s no comparison. And I don’t think anyone in the NBA feels the Clippers did him dirty anyway.

The Clippers are one of the most well-run organizations in the league. The Lakers FO is inept. If not for the Wizards and Space Jam 2, they wouldn’t even have the cap space to sign another max player.

People respect Lawrence Frank and Doc Rivers. Jerry West is an advisor. Ballmer is the exact opposite of Sterling. If the Clips add Leonard and another max player (Jimmy Butler or Tobias Harris, for example), they’ll be among the favorites to win it all. The supporting cast is there. They’re two stars away and they have the cap space to pull it off. And if they only get Leonard, they can re-sign Beverley and get another max guy next year.

The Lakers have two stars and literally no one else. They’re going to round out the roster with guys like Melo. Why would Leonard pick a team with aging veterans and no depth after what just happened with the Warriors?

The Lakers are a team of the past. The Clips are all about the future.

 

[Horn88]

Kobe won five titles with the Lakers and is one of the greatest players of all time. Griffin can dunk. There’s no comparison. And I don’t think anyone in the NBA feels the Clippers did him dirty anyway.

The Clippers are one of the most well-run organizations in the league. The Lakers FO is inept. If not for the Wizards and Space Jam 2, they wouldn’t even have the cap space to sign another max player.

People respect Lawrence Frank and Doc Rivers. Jerry West is an advisor. Ballmer is the exact opposite of Sterling. If the Clips add Leonard and another max player (Jimmy Butler or Tobias Harris, for example), they’ll be among the favorites to win it all. The supporting cast is there. They’re two stars away and they have the cap space to pull it off. And if they only get Leonard, they can re-sign Beverley and get another max guy next year.

The Lakers have two stars and literally no one else. They’re going to round out the roster with guys like Melo. Why would Leonard pick a team with aging veterans and no depth after what just happened with the Warriors?

The Lakers are a team of the past. The Clips are all about the future.

Trying to dismiss it as just “Griffin can dunk” and players don’t really care is very generous to your view.

Clippers were completely irrelevant and a joke. They drafted Blake and he was all-NBA five years and was the catalyst of Lob City that changed the perception of the Clippers around the league. He did so much for that franchise. Balmer recruited him to resign by staging a fake jersey retirement ceremony and how he would be a life long Clipper and franchise legend. Blake bought in and signed then Balmer traded him to Detroit 6 months later.

That’s incredibly cold. You can say that you don’t think it’s a big deal but that stuff sticks with players quite a bit. Players want to feel like they can trust that their team will take care of them and Clippers did the opposite to arguably the most important player in their franchise history.

And I don’t know if you can call a team with 2 of the top 5-7 players in the world and $32M in cap space a team of the past.

 

[Briancuse]

I don’t think current players view the Clippers as a mess. I just said in Kawhi’s situation I think Toronto and the Lakers offer more appealing situations based on what he might want. The Clippers are a bit of a hybrid of the two. If you want to go home and win as much as you can then the Lakers are better but if you want your own team and to be the man with a contender built around you I’d trust Masai and stay where you literally just did that a week ago.

I very well might be wrong. Just giving my opinion on his decision from my perspective.

I think they are a major factor. Balmar is a respected owners. Doc is a respected coach. I think they land a big player.

 

[Horn88]

I think they are a major factor. Balmar is a respected owners. Doc is a respected coach. I think they land a big player.

Agreed, they’ll definitely sign some talent and will be good.

 

[Alsacs]

No tampering occurs though people.

 

[Day2]

Trying to dismiss it as just “Griffin can dunk” and players don’t really care is very generous to your view.

Clippers were completely irrelevant and a joke. They drafted Blake and he was all-NBA five years and was the catalyst of Lob City that changed the perception of the Clippers around the league. He did so much for that franchise. Balmer recruited him to resign by staging a fake jersey retirement ceremony and how he would be a life long Clipper and franchise legend. Blake bought in and signed then Balmer traded him to Detroit 6 months later.

That’s incredibly cold. You can say that you don’t think it’s a big deal but that stuff sticks with players quite a bit. Players want to feel like they can trust that their team will take care of them and Clippers did the opposite to arguably the most important player in their franchise history.

And I don’t know if you can call a team with 2 of the top 5-7 players in the world and $32M in cap space a team of the past.

You're way overstating the importance of Griffin to the franchise. His career in LA was marred by injuries and postseason disappointments. We're still talking about a team that has never made it past the second round of the playoffs. And you can't have Lob City without the Lob, so it was actually Paul who was the catalyst. Anyway, the Clips weren't going to make it any further with that group. The front office knew it, the coaches knew it, the players knew it, and even the fans knew it. Everyone was ready to move on. Trading Griffin will have a greater impact on the team's history and success than anything he accomplished while he was there.

People are taking the organization seriously now due to the change in ownership. Putting Frank in charge of operations, letting Rivers stick to coaching, and bringing West in as a consultant...these are the reasons why the perception of the team has changed. The Paul and Griffin trades kicked off a domino effect that has the franchise in the position it's in now.

Until the Lakers put a roster together and start winning games and titles again, they'll be stuck in the past. And until a free agent comes forward and says, "I refuse to play for the Clippers because of what they did to Griffin," then you're just telling stories.

 

[Knicks411]

No tampering occurs though people.

Like, why even bother?

My thoughts on the Lakers-Clippers stuff: The Clippers are definitely attractive locale, but it's not a great look how they treated Blake. I still think they will get some guys, but it's not great. And the Lakers were able to sign one of the best players ever to come to a team without any other star talent to entice him, and Davis had them as his #1 landing spot. A lot to be said for t hat. Put another way; the Lakers have already recruited 2 mega stars to their team; this current Clipper team hasn't. So hard to say the Lakers are stuck in the past or whatever

 

[Horn88]

You're way overstating the importance of Griffin to the franchise. His career in LA was marred by injuries and postseason disappointments. We're still talking about a team that has never made it past the second round of the playoffs. And you can't have Lob City without the Lob, so it was actually Paul who was the catalyst. Anyway, the Clips weren't going to make it any further with that group. The front office knew it, the coaches knew it, the players knew it, and even the fans knew it. Everyone was ready to move on. Trading Griffin will have a greater impact on the team's history and success than anything he accomplished while he was there.

People are taking the organization seriously now due to the change in ownership. Putting Frank in charge of operations, letting Rivers stick to coaching, and bringing West in as a consultant...these are the reasons why the perception of the team has changed. The Paul and Griffin trades kicked off a domino effect that has the franchise in the position it's in now.

Until the Lakers put a roster together and start winning games and titles again, they'll be stuck in the past. And until a free agent comes forward and says, "I refuse to play for the Clippers because of what they did to Griffin," then you're just telling stories.

Steve Balmer disagreed with you about Blake’s importance to the franchise 6 months before you say everyone in the organization was on the same page that it was time to move on. And telling Kawhi we traded Blake away 6 months after his free agency because he was getting hurt probably isn’t the best angle to take with a guy who just missed a season with a quad injury.

I’m not arguing that no free agent will want to sign with the Clippers. I gave my opinion on why I think Lakers and Toronto are more attractive options for Kawhi than the Clippers. Maybe I’ll be wrong.

I maintain my view that the Lakers seem to be doing a pretty good job of building a contender and aren’t living in the past.

 

[jordville]

Crazy move on his part to go do Jehovahs Witness work. His earnings were $43m so far. Could've stuck it out 1 more year and potentially raised that 20-25% and then went on his journey.

Bulls still want to sign a vet PG to go with Coby White.

 

[jordville]

Sounds like D.Rose to the Pistons.