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STEVEHOLT

There are FIVE letters in the name BLAIN.
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If you guys are going to use analytics to say Harden is better than Lebron in the playoffs I think I’m done here.
Lebron is 94 foot 2 way player .. he’s clearly a far better player .. these stats are straight offense .. and I think it can be very well argued harden is a better offensive player

.. my point was the concept that harden suddenly isn’t good in the playoffs isn’t true...he’s had very bad specific games for sure..but the overall body of work is fine ..have the harden era rockets really ever got knocked out of the playoffs by teams they were clearly better than ?
 

Cusefan0307

Basketball Board pissing match observer
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Lebron is 94 foot 2 way player .. he’s clearly a far better player .. these stats are straight offense .. and I think it can be very well argued harden is a better offensive player

.. my point was the concept that harden suddenly isn’t good in the playoffs isn’t true...he’s had very bad specific games for sure..but the overall body of work is fine ..have the harden era rockets really ever got knocked out of the playoffs by teams they were clearly better than ?
I wasn’t arguing that. You said he’d be in the finals if he was in the east.

EDIT: 4 times

Also I look at stats a ton and analytics have a place in the game, but it’s taken away from the ability to understand nuance when discussing sports.

Lebron has also rarely thrown up stinkers in any elimination games besides that first season with Miami. There’s something to that other than “statistical variance” or one off scenarios people speak to.
 
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Knicks411

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I wasn’t arguing that. You said he’d be in the finals if he was in the east.

EDIT: 4 times

Also I look at stats a ton and analytics have a place in the game, but it’s taken away from the ability to understand nuance when discussing sports.

Lebron has also rarely thrown up stinkers in any elimination games besides that first season with Miami. There’s something to that other than “statistical variance” or one off scenarios people speak to.
I agree with basically everything you say, it's just funny now to read about Lebron as the paragon of playoff/clutch performance considering the narrative around him earlier in his career
 

OttoinGrotto

Professor Irwin Corey
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I agree with basically everything you say, it's just funny now to read about Lebron as the paragon of playoff/clutch performance considering the narrative around him earlier in his career
Oh don't worry, I still think he's lousy in the playoffs and has the pathetic annual weakness of the east to thank for much of his success.
 

STEVEHOLT

There are FIVE letters in the name BLAIN.
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Are the Nets and Kings good ? Are we in an alternate universe?
 

Alsacs

When you elect a clown expect a circus
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Thibs just got fired.
 

NineOneSeven

2018-19 Iggy Hoops Leader Scorer
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Is LeBron higher than Kobe on all-time list? I think we know the answer, but I have a couple of friends who refuse to put James higher than Kobe, for reasons such as sticking with one team, rings, and his overall competitiveness. Guys who know the sport, too.

I think the overwhelming answer is... yes. Curious though about your thoughts.
 

OttoinGrotto

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Is LeBron higher than Kobe on all-time list? I think we know the answer, but I have a couple of friends who refuse to put James higher than Kobe, for reasons such as sticking with one team, rings, and his overall competitiveness. Guys who know the sport, too.

I think the overwhelming answer is... yes. Curious though about your thoughts.
Would depend on Lebron's total body of work I guess.

For now I'd go Kobe, slightly, cuz raaaaaangs.
 

Alsacs

When you elect a clown expect a circus
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Is LeBron higher than Kobe on all-time list? I think we know the answer, but I have a couple of friends who refuse to put James higher than Kobe, for reasons such as sticking with one team, rings, and his overall competitiveness. Guys who know the sport, too.

I think the overwhelming answer is... yes. Curious though about your thoughts.
LeBron is a top 5 player all time right now.
Kobe is a top 10 player all-time.
I say this as somebody who has never rooted for LeBron James in a single game he hasn’t worn USA on his chest in.
 

Knicks411

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LeBron is a top 5 player all time right now.
Kobe is a top 10 player all-time.
I say this as somebody who has never rooted for LeBron James in a single game he hasn’t worn USA on his chest in.
I think Kobe is fringe top 10 (i am a Kobe hater). I think Lebron is #3 all time at absolute worst (kareem and Jordan) but in my heart of hearts I think he's the GOAT. Until Zion gets a few years in the league, of course
 

Newhouser

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Is LeBron higher than Kobe on all-time list? I think we know the answer, but I have a couple of friends who refuse to put James higher than Kobe, for reasons such as sticking with one team, rings, and his overall competitiveness. Guys who know the sport, too.

I think the overwhelming answer is... yes. Curious though about your thoughts.
LBJ is higher than Kobe who should not be rewarded for staying with one team. He held the Lakers hostage and IMHO is why they are the spot they are today. His last few years was a Thank You Tour that was all about Kobe.
 

Melancer46

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I think Kobe is fringe top 10 (i am a Kobe hater). I think Lebron is #3 all time at absolute worst (kareem and Jordan) but in my heart of hearts I think he's the GOAT. Until Zion gets a few years in the league, of course
I’d still go MJ as the GOAT but otherwise agree. Kobe is probably in the 11-13 range for me and Lebron in the top 3 behind MJ and Giannis
 

Alsacs

When you elect a clown expect a circus
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With how thin skinned Kevin Durant is those comments by Clyde Frazier are going to cost the Knicks.
 

MikeSU02

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I think Kobe is fringe top 10 (i am a Kobe hater). I think Lebron is #3 all time at absolute worst (kareem and Jordan) but in my heart of hearts I think he's the GOAT. Until Zion gets a few years in the league, of course
1) Can't wait until Zion comes to New York.

2) Bron is, at worst, #3 all time. I have the same top three as you. Kobe is not as good as him. Honestly, if you told me I could have KD or Steph or Kawhi or Kobe, Kobe might be #4 on my list if I got them at their absolute peak. KD is arguably the best scorer ever, Steph is the best shooter ever and totally changed the geometry of the floor and Kawhi is *actually* the closest MJ clone and not Kobe (I'm here for the blowback on that).
 

Knicks411

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1) Can't wait until Zion comes to New York.

2) Bron is, at worst, #3 all time. I have the same top three as you. Kobe is not as good as him. Honestly, if you told me I could have KD or Steph or Kawhi or Kobe, Kobe might be #4 on my list if I got them at their absolute peak. KD is arguably the best scorer ever, Steph is the best shooter ever and totally changed the geometry of the floor and Kawhi is *actually* the closest MJ clone and not Kobe (I'm here for the blowback on that).
I don't think thats a terrible take at all. Kawhi might be the one I am least sure on, since his absolute peak has been relatively shorter.

An interesting (?) point on Lebron that I have kind of mentioned before, since he's still playing and is so great still, we kinda forget how long he's played. He's 19th all time in regular season minutes, and first (700 more than anyone else) in post season minutes. John Stockton is a guy who has a (deserved) rep for playing forever. Lebron has already played more minutes when you combine regular season and playoff.
 

OrangeDW

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1) Can't wait until Zion comes to New York.

2) Bron is, at worst, #3 all time. I have the same top three as you. Kobe is not as good as him. Honestly, if you told me I could have KD or Steph or Kawhi or Kobe, Kobe might be #4 on my list if I got them at their absolute peak. KD is arguably the best scorer ever, Steph is the best shooter ever and totally changed the geometry of the floor and Kawhi is *actually* the closest MJ clone and not Kobe (I'm here for the blowback on that).
Of course you’ve gotta account for KD being kind of a punk when the going gets tough.

I watched KD brick enough weak contested jumpers in the 4th quarter in OKC when they really needed a bucket to know I’m taking Kobe over him. KD’s great but as a lead dog, the results were mixed at best.
 

OrangeDW

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LBJ is higher than Kobe who should not be rewarded for staying with one team. He held the Lakers hostage and IMHO is why they are the spot they are today. His last few years was a Thank You Tour that was all about Kobe.
I don’t know about that. We won two straight in 2009/2010. Fell short with strong contenders the next two years, and tried retooling by bringing in Nash and Howard. Going into that year, many thought the Lakers would win it all. It flopped, Nash was suddenly completely washed, the chemistry wasn’t there, Gasol was misused, and Kobe tore his Achilles while being run into the ground trying to make the playoffs.

Then Howard left.

At that point, tanking while Kobe continued to put butts in seats was about all we could do. It sucked for a few years, but getting all those high drafted players helped make us attractive enough to bring in LeBron.
 

kirbivore

2018 Cali Winner: Tackles for a Loss
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With how thin skinned Kevin Durant is those comments by Clyde Frazier are going to cost the Knicks.
he walked it back today

Per the NY Daily News:

“I was flabbergasted,” Frazier told the Daily News. “I was like, what? So people were calling me. My friends were calling me. And I didn’t know the magnitude. All these different programs were talking about it. I was like, ‘Wow.’”
Now, Frazier wants Durant to understand “I meant no disrespect” by stating in the summer that the Warriors star hurt his legacy by joining a ready-made roster. The point was valid — that Durant’s titles would’ve meant more if won with the Thunder — but criticisms of current stars from former ones are often dismissed as bitter or out of touch.
So what would put Durant over the top? Frazier said winning a title with the Knicks — a feat not accomplished since he averaged 46 minutes per game in the 1973 Finals — would station Durant in the highest category.
“I think that’s what he needs. Especially if the Warriors win this year, I think he’d be looking for a different challenge,” Frazier told the News. “I don’t know a better place than New York where he can do it. Where else could he go to get what he’s looking for, to be the best in the game? If he could bring a title to New York, that’s going to catapult him with Jordan and LeBron, I would think.”
 

Knicks411

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Of course you’ve gotta account for KD being kind of a punk when the going gets tough.

I watched KD brick enough weak contested jumpers in the 4th quarter in OKC when they really needed a bucket to know I’m taking Kobe over him. KD’s great but as a lead dog, the results were mixed at best.
I mean, he does have 2 finals MVPs. 29/11/8 and 35/8/5. Not too bad. And Kobe did win a finals MVP going 6-24 in game 7 one year. But i am a self admitted Kobe hater, to be fair
 

OrangeDW

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I mean, he does have 2 finals MVPs. 29/11/8 and 35/8/5. Not too bad. And Kobe did win a finals MVP going 6-24 in game 7 one year. But i am a self admitted Kobe hater, to be fair
Yes, but he was pretty much coming in and picking the bones and dropping elbows on already lifeless opponents by joining that team. Steph’s range makes the game so easy for someone like KD.

I’m not mad. It’s just hard to look at the same as what Kobe did in 2009 and 2010z
 

Pearl309

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This will forever be my favorite b-ball play ever next to hak’s Block
I will make it a point to start everyday watching it
Possibly even view it as a nightcap too
 

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