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IthacaBarrel

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I think Kobe is fringe top 10 (i am a Kobe hater). I think Lebron is #3 all time at absolute worst (kareem and Jordan) but in my heart of hearts I think he's the GOAT. Until Zion gets a few years in the league, of course

I agree, I think James is the best.
 

Briancuse

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I think Kobe is fringe top 10 (i am a Kobe hater). I think Lebron is #3 all time at absolute worst (kareem and Jordan) but in my heart of hearts I think he's the GOAT. Until Zion gets a few years in the league, of course
Kobe is a lock no doubt about it top 10 player.
 

Knicks411

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Kobe is a lock no doubt about it top 10 player.
There are 13 guys who have won more than 1 MVP. Kobe isn't one of them.

Not saying that's the only argument (Kobe is better than Steve Nash, for instance), but ten is a real small #. Lot of great great players. I should probably do an actual ranking, but my gut says I have him around 10-12.
 

moqui

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There are 13 guys who have won more than 1 MVP. Kobe isn't one of them.

Not saying that's the only argument (Kobe is better than Steve Nash, for instance), but ten is a real small #. Lot of great great players. I should probably do an actual ranking, but my gut says I have him around 10-12.
he should have 3 afaiac
 

OrangeDW

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There are 13 guys who have won more than 1 MVP. Kobe isn't one of them.

Not saying that's the only argument (Kobe is better than Steve Nash, for instance), but ten is a real small #. Lot of great great players. I should probably do an actual ranking, but my gut says I have him around 10-12.
Yeah. And when you’re comparing across eras or positions, or both...who really knows?

Like...Kobe or Bird? I don’t freaking know. Kobe or Olajuwon? How do you even compare? Kobe or Shaq...oh God, not again. Kobe or Oscar? Shrug.
 

Alsacs

I am statboy because I use stats to form opinions
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5 titles puts Kobe in my top 10.
He was robbed of the 2006 MVP.
That Lakers team was hot garbage and he took the Suns to 7 games.
Kobe isn’t LeBron but he is a top 10 player all time. IMO
LeBron is top 5 for me probably 3rd.
I would go
Jordan
Kareem
LeBron
Russell
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Duncan
Kobe
Oscar
 

OrangeDW

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5 titles puts Kobe in my top 10.
He was robbed of the 2006 MVP.
That Lakers team was hot garbage and he took the Suns to 7 games.
Kobe isn’t LeBron but he is a top 10 player all time. IMO
LeBron is top 5 for me probably 3rd.
I would go
Jordan
Kareem
LeBron
Russell
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Duncan
Kobe
Oscar
I don’t know. Like...I watched Shaq at his peak take a dump all over Duncan(and everybody else) a couple times. I think peak Olajuwon was better too. That guy was just...one of a kind athlete and player.

But just looking at the ridiculous longevity and career accomplishments, you can argue Duncan even higher. And peak Duncan was a pretty flawless player too, don’t get me wrong.

There’s no real right or wrong answers on some of these.
 

Alsacs

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I don’t know. Like...I watched Shaq at his peak take a dump all over Duncan(and everybody else) a couple times. I think peak Olajuwon was better too. That guy was just...one of a kind athlete and player.

But just looking at the ridiculous longevity and career accomplishments, you can argue Duncan even higher. And peak Duncan was a pretty flawless player too, don’t get me wrong.

There’s no real right or wrong answers on some of these.
Peak Shaq was better than peak Duncan.
The problem was Shaq didn’t give a chit a lot of seasons. Shaq’s desire was the main reason him and Kobe started their feud.
If Shaq had Duncan’s professionalism he wins more.
I think Hakeem was a stud as well.
I just look at Shaq and I see a guy who could have won more if he truly cared.
 

Knicks411

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5 titles puts Kobe in my top 10.
He was robbed of the 2006 MVP.
That Lakers team was hot garbage and he took the Suns to 7 games.
Kobe isn’t LeBron but he is a top 10 player all time. IMO
LeBron is top 5 for me probably 3rd.
I would go
Jordan
Kareem
LeBron
Russell
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Duncan
Kobe
Oscar
I kinda think your list is too heavily tilted toward guys from the past. (that said, I think i'd rather have West over Oscar). Then again, maybe it's just too hard to judge guys from more recent, especially if they're still active.

But like, the idea that only 3 of the ten best players ever have debuted in the last 35 or so years (Jordan was 84, so I am not including him) seems a little hard for me to believe at first blush. But then again, the guys I would most likely consider, Shaq aside, are guys like Steph and Durant, who are still going. Maybe KG. This totlaly could be the recency bias talking here, but it feels to me like the best players now are probably better than they have ever been, and the depth of guys who will ultimately be considered legends is pretty much insane
 

shandeezy7

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Nothing about Spurs/OKC last night?

Spurs win in double OT 154-147 and made their first 14 3’s.
I got sucked into watching it in the 4th quarter and then ended up staying up a bit later than planned. It was a very entertaining game. Think the Thunder ran out of gas at then end. Not having Nerlens Noel available when Adams got hurt really did them in. Jerami was all effort trying to guard LA, but he's giving up 3 inches and 40 lbs.
 
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Here are some Steph Curry stats I found. He's currently taking 12.1 3's per 36 minutes (!) and shooting 45% (!!!)

In the history of the league (well, since the 3 point line, I guess), there have been 14 seasons when a player averaged 10 3 pointers attempted per 36. The top of the list, by %, is
1) Steph Curry 45.4%
2) Steph Curry 45.0%
3) Steph Curry 41.1%

Troy Daniels, believe it or not, in limited minutes last year, took 10.2 3's per 36 and shot right at 40%. It's just crazy how far ahead of the pack Steph is when you consider the sheer number of 3's he takes.

Put another way, there have been 69 seasons in NBA history where a guy who shot 45% or better from 3 (50 made 3s minimum). When you sort them by 3's made per 36, you get

1) Steph 12.1
2) Steph 11.8
3) Kyle Korver 7.4

He is lapping the field!! No one else has come close to the volume and % from 3.
 

OttoinGrotto

Professor Irwin Corey
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Here are some Steph Curry stats I found. He's currently taking 12.1 3's per 36 minutes (!) and shooting 45% (!!!)

In the history of the league (well, since the 3 point line, I guess), there have been 14 seasons when a player averaged 10 3 pointers attempted per 36. The top of the list, by %, is
1) Steph Curry 45.4%
2) Steph Curry 45.0%
3) Steph Curry 41.1%

Troy Daniels, believe it or not, in limited minutes last year, took 10.2 3's per 36 and shot right at 40%. It's just crazy how far ahead of the pack Steph is when you consider the sheer number of 3's he takes.

Put another way, there have been 69 seasons in NBA history where a guy who shot 45% or better from 3 (50 made 3s minimum). When you sort them by 3's made per 36, you get

1) Steph 12.1
2) Steph 11.8
3) Kyle Korver 7.4

He is lapping the field!! No one else has come close to the volume and % from 3.
He's the great Bambino of 3 point shooting!

The sultan of swish!
 
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Here are some Steph Curry stats I found. He's currently taking 12.1 3's per 36 minutes (!) and shooting 45% (!!!)

In the history of the league (well, since the 3 point line, I guess), there have been 14 seasons when a player averaged 10 3 pointers attempted per 36. The top of the list, by %, is
1) Steph Curry 45.4%
2) Steph Curry 45.0%
3) Steph Curry 41.1%

Troy Daniels, believe it or not, in limited minutes last year, took 10.2 3's per 36 and shot right at 40%. It's just crazy how far ahead of the pack Steph is when you consider the sheer number of 3's he takes.

Put another way, there have been 69 seasons in NBA history where a guy who shot 45% or better from 3 (50 made 3s minimum). When you sort them by 3's made per 36, you get

1) Steph 12.1
2) Steph 11.8
3) Kyle Korver 7.4

He is lapping the field!! No one else has come close to the volume and % from 3.
He's the greatest shooter of all time and what you are writing (especially considering his range) are why there is a very good argument that he's the most valuable player in the nba and definitely more valuable than KD on his own team.
 

OttoinGrotto

Professor Irwin Corey
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He's the greatest shooter of all time and what you are writing (especially considering his range) are why there is a very good argument that he's the most valuable player in the nba and definitely more valuable than KD on his own team.
I think when you look at players that change the game, he's going to be high on the list with Kareem, Jordan, Magic, Dirk, etc.

#Lebronhater checking in, I don't think James is in that class. Exceptional individual talent, but it doesn't feel like people approach the sport differently because of his style of play.
 
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I think when you look at players that change the game, he's going to be high on the list with Kareem, Jordan, Magic, Dirk, etc.

#Lebronhater checking in, I don't think James is in that class. Exceptional individual talent, but it doesn't feel like people approach the sport differently because of his style of play.
I agree on Lebron.

But I'm also not sure that guys like Kareem and Jordan changed the game that much. Those guys were just way better than everyone else, right? Similar to Lebron; if you're 6-9 275 and a world class athlete who also has maybe the best feel for the game ever, well, that guy is going to be an all time legend, but it's not totally like you can model someone else to be like him.

It's possible the two guys who have changed the game the most ever are Wilt (increasing the size of the lane) and Steph.

Maybe you could argue Jordan was a big reason they laxed the hand checking rules?

I keep thinking about this. Lebron's biggest legacy when it comes to how "the game" changes may be him making it more acceptable for star players to move from team to team? I dunno; maybe Durant doesnt leave OKC for GS if Lebron hadn't already gone to Miami. Seems like it's way more a thing now than before 2010.
 
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OttoinGrotto

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I agree on Lebron.

But I'm also not sure that guys like Kareem and Jordan changed the game that much. Those guys were just way better than everyone else, right? Similar to Lebron; if you're 6-9 275 and a world class athlete who also has maybe the best feel for the game ever, well, that guy is going to be an all time legend, but it's not totally like you can model someone else to be like him.

It's possible the two guys who have changed the game the most ever are Wilt (increasing the size of the lane) and Steph.

Maybe you could argue Jordan was a big reason they laxed the hand checking rules?

I keep thinking about this. Lebron's biggest legacy when it comes to how "the game" changes may be him making it more acceptable for star players to move from team to team? I dunno; maybe Durant doesnt leave OKC for GS if Lebron hadn't already gone to Miami. Seems like it's way more a thing now than before 2010.
Let me tell you why you're wrong about Kareem and Jordan.

1st, Kareem's play temporarily eliminated the dunk from the game, which had all kinds of consequences for further development of the post-game.

2nd, one of the dark sides of Jordan is that teams and players copied the bad aspect of having a dominant player. It took teams away from team ball and towards a single iso player dominating shot attempts. Problem was, almost everybody was trying it, and nobody had anybody good enough to really do it. So it lead to a lot of ugly basketball. There's an article about this I'll try to dig up.

You may be right that LeBron started a star migration trend.
 
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Let me tell you why you're wrong about Kareem and Jordan.

1st, Kareem's play temporarily eliminated the dunk from the game, which had all kinds of consequences for further development of the post-game.

2nd, one of the dark sides of Jordan is that teams and players copied the bad aspect of having a dominant player. It took teams away from team ball and towards a single iso player dominating shot attempts. Problem was, almost everybody was trying it, and nobody had anybody good enough to really do it. So it lead to a lot of ugly basketball. There's an article about this I'll try to dig up.

You may be right that LeBron started a star migration trend.

I totally forgot about the dunk being outlawed in college. Totally right about Kareem.]
And also a good point on Jordan as well.

Also, again, not on the court stuff, but Jordan is probably the single player most responsible for the game being as global as it is, right?
 

OttoinGrotto

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I totally forgot about the dunk being outlawed in college. Totally right about Kareem.]
And also a good point on Jordan as well.

Also, again, not on the court stuff, but Jordan is probably the single player most responsible for the game being as global as it is, right?
I think not just the game going global, but marketability of any athlete too.
 
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I totally forgot about the dunk being outlawed in college. Totally right about Kareem.]
And also a good point on Jordan as well.

Also, again, not on the court stuff, but Jordan is probably the single player most responsible for the game being as global as it is, right?
Remember when every 6’5 - 6’6 perimeter player that was a good dunker was the “next Michael Jordan”? Hard to believe people were that dumb. Harold Minor aka “baby Jordan”(not even a good player), Jerry Stackhouse(lacked the smooth polish to even warrant a comparison), Vince Carter(two foot jumper - much more Dominique like), etc.

Kobe is the only guy similar enough to warrant a comparison and that’s because he was a psycho who did it on purpose.
 


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