NBA 2018-2019

[OttoinGrotto]

Perfect summary.

I just can’t stand the fake drama that the Celtics screwed IT.
They didn’t. He was traded for a better player to a good team.
He wasn’t going to sign a team friendly extension. He said he wanted the brinks truck rolled in.
The Celtics helped develop him.
I get he was disappointed but 29 other teams all do the same thing.
What AD’s dad is saying is teams should be stupid with their money.

He was coming off an All-NBA season where he was an MVP candidate, and you're holding it against him that he wasn't thinking about signing a team friendly deal? After he was already slow rolling an extension to help the team add talent?

I think you're just torqued because for years Boston believed it was manifest destiny for AD to land in Boston (the war chest! Celts can offer the best deal!) that now that it looks unlikely, Hayward ain't the same, and Kyrie's a dweeb and that is not how it was written up in the playbook.

 

[Alsacs]

He was coming off an All-NBA season where he was an MVP candidate, and you're holding it against him that he wasn't thinking about signing a team friendly deal? After he was already slow rolling an extension to help the team add talent?

I think you're just torqued because for years Boston believed it was manifest destiny for AD to land in Boston (the war chest! Celts can offer the best deal!) that now that it looks unlikely, Hayward ain't the same, and Kyrie's a dweeb and that is not how it was written up in the playbook.

Teams knew IT was a defensive liability forever.
He had a tremendous season that his organization helped him have. Ainge and Stevens were the ones to unleash IT.
He wasn’t screwed.
Team friendly deal was not expecting the max.
No team was ever going to give IT the max even off his 2nd team all-NBA season. He was an offensive weapon and the fanbase loved him.
He wasn’t screwed. The team shut him down after game 2 of the ECF.
The team told him his family was more important than a playoff series. He wanted to play for his sister.
The organization didn’t screw him.
I got no problem with AD wanting to play in LA.
His dad’s narrative is FOS. If players are upset with what Boston did to IT they are absolutely positively stupid human beings.
The team upgraded talent and didn’t send him to a rebuild. They sent him to a good team at the time of the trade.
IT was not screwed unless you believe all teams should waste cap space before trying to make their teams more championship worthy.

If Davis wants LA that is fine but this bullchit about IT is hot garbage.

LeBron is flexing his muscles. It honestly makes a hard cap the way to go.

The league is pointless now as the seasons don’t matter. We all know teams are coasting or tanking till the playoffs.

 

[Knicks411]

Right. Kawhi has played over 70 games 2 times in 8 seasons.

Davis, 2 times in 7 seasons.

I think the craziest thing about Jordan’s 1996-98 might be that he played all 82 in all 3 seasons. At 38-39 mpg.

I remember looking this up a few years ago and being astonished by it (and probably also posting it, I can't remember) and thinking there is no way you would see something like that now. But then last year, you had Lebron play every game and averaged 36.9 minutes per game. It's probably a coincidence that he missed serious time this season, but really, no reason for him to do that.

 

[Knicks411]

Teams knew IT was a defensive liability forever.

IT was not screwed unless you believe all teams should waste cap space before trying to make their teams more championship worthy.

If Davis wants LA that is fine but this bullchit about IT is hot garbage.

LeBron is flexing his muscles. It honestly makes a hard cap the way to go.

The league is pointless now as the seasons don’t matter. We all know teams are coasting or tanking till the playoffs.

or if you believe maybe the Celtics lead IT to believe the original injury wasn't as serious as it really was knowing they didn't really have any intention of signing him long term, and coerced him into playing through, it before making it even worse, and then trading him while again downplaying the extent of the injury the entire time.

I'm not saying thats what happened. But is it ridiculous? For sure the second part, weren't you saying IT would be back and healthy pretty early in last season?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Teams knew IT was a defensive liability forever.
He had a tremendous season that his organization helped him have. Ainge and Stevens were the ones to unleash IT.
He wasn’t screwed.
Team friendly deal was not expecting the max.
No team was ever going to give IT the max even off his 2nd team all-NBA season. He was an offensive weapon and the fanbase loved him.
He wasn’t screwed. The team shut him down after game 2 of the ECF.
The team told him his family was more important than a playoff series. He wanted to play for his sister.
The organization didn’t screw him.
I got no problem with AD wanting to play in LA.
His dad’s narrative is FOS. If players are upset with what Boston did to IT they are absolutely positively stupid human beings.
The team upgraded talent and didn’t send him to a rebuild. They sent him to a good team at the time of the trade.
IT was not screwed unless you believe all teams should waste cap space before trying to make their teams more championship worthy.

If Davis wants LA that is fine but this bullchit about IT is hot garbage.

LeBron is flexing his muscles. It honestly makes a hard cap the way to go.

The league is pointless now as the seasons don’t matter. We all know teams are coasting or tanking till the playoffs.

Ok, so the Celtics helped IT become a better player, but IT also accelerated their team improvement by massively outperforming his contract.

This is a two way street.

 

[Alsacs]

or if you believe maybe the Celtics lead IT to believe the original injury wasn't as serious as it really was knowing they didn't really have any intention of signing him long term, and coerced him into playing through, it before making it even worse, and then trading him while again downplaying the extent of the injury the entire time.

I'm not saying thats what happened. But is it ridiculous? For sure the second part, weren't you saying IT would be back and healthy pretty early in last season?

If IT was seriously hurt then why would Boston have overpaid him?

Cleveland acquired him to get the Nets pick.
If Boston mislead IT he should sue then. They didn’t or else the NBAPA would have filed a grievance as IT wouldn’t do Boston any favors.

The Celtics didn’t trade him because he was hurt. They did because they could get a better player younger and under contract longer.
To claim Boston did wrong by Isaiah would he claim the team owed something that hasn’t been alleged.

How did they coerce him into playing if they shut him down after game 2 of the ECF?
How did he score 50 in a game in the EC semi finals against Washington and then get shutdown after game 2 in the ECF?
He got injured in the Cleveland series and they didn’t want him risking his career.

I didn’t think the injury was as bad as it ended up being IT didn’t get surgery right away he tried to rehab it. The Cavs didn’t make the trade for IT they made the trade of Kyrie because he wanted out and they wanted a draft pick so when LeBron left they could rebuild.

 

[Alsacs]

Ok, so the Celtics helped IT become a better player, but IT also accelerated their team improvement by massively outperforming his contract.

This is a two way street.

The team paid IT what the contract stated he was to earn.
What is the 2 way street? They told him he wasn’t getting an extension while they had cap space for FAs.
Which they used on Al Horford and Gordon Heyward.

The only way the team extends him early is if he gave them a team friendly deal which he didn’t offer.
How did the Celtics screw him?

 

[Knicks411]

If IT was seriously hurt then why would Boston have overpaid him?

Cleveland acquired him to get the Nets pick.
If Boston mislead IT he should sue then. They didn’t or else the NBAPA would have filed a grievance as IT wouldn’t do Boston any favors.

The Celtics didn’t trade him because he was hurt. They did because they could get a better player younger and under contract longer.
To claim Boston did wrong by Isaiah would he claim the team owed something that hasn’t been alleged.

How did they coerce him into playing if they shut him down after game 2 of the ECF?
How did he score 50 in a game in the EC semi finals against Washington and then get shutdown after game 2 in the ECF?
He got injured in the Cleveland series and they didn’t want him risking his career.

I didn’t think the injury was as bad as it ended up being IT didn’t get surgery right away he tried to rehab it. The Cavs didn’t make the trade for IT they made the trade of Kyrie because he wanted out and they wanted a draft pick so when LeBron left they could rebuild.

What I'm saying is it's possible when he was initially hurt the team was less than honest with how serious the injury was because they wanted him to play through it, knowing they were going to move on from him. (Or not! I don't know. But it's not like, totally out of the question) I'm not suggesting they should've given him a huge contract or they were obligated not to trade him or anything like that.

And fwiw, and I'm not trying to play gotcha, but here's what you said after the trade

No because Ainge was very transparent with the medicals to Cleveland.

Cleveland did the trade for the pick.
Plus Isaiah won't be out for the whole season. He just may miss a few weeks if in September his visit to the doctor tells him to rest a few more weeks.

Isaiah will play next year.
Boston was expecting him to miss all of camp and be ready full go by Halloween.

Reading that thread is kinda fun.

The smear campaign the Celtics are running on Thomas, saying he didn't get along with teammates, is pretty unnecessary and gross. Multiple former Celtics calling BS.

 

[Knicks411]

I'm going to stop going through the old NBA thread now, but also, I am an idiot

I would be really shocked if Memphis picks in the top 9 this year. They still have Conley and Gasol. /QUOTE]

 

[longislandcuse]

This looks incredible.

 

[Melancer46]

I'm expecting that if Mike Conley is traded, it'll be to Utah or Detroit.

Having said that, I think there's probably a zero percent chance that this happens, but I kinda think a Conley-John Wall swap makes sense for both teams. Something like Wall, Tomas Satoransky, and Troy Brown for Conley works salary wise.

For Memphis:
This would require them acknowledging that they'll never be able to sign max free agents on their own, so Wall is an opportunity to acquire a borderline-star player that they won't really have an opportunity to do any other time. Swapping Conley for Wall basically solidifies their tank job this year, allowing them to keep their own draft pick and have a shot at Zion/Barrett, either of which would be huge for them. Satoransky can hold it down as the fill-in PG while Wall is hurt and then I believe he's a FA at the end of the year. Troy Brown was a first round pick this year, so they get a nice asset in him.

For Washington:
They get out of that massive contract a year or two early. They don't blow the whole team up (owner has said they do not want to rebuild at all), but at the same time, this shakes up a core that has proven itself to simply not work. I think Conley complements Beal far better than Wall does. At the same time, Brown isn't doing anything for them right now and upgrading from Satoransky to Conley is a gigantic upgrade that almost certainly solidifies Washington as a playoff team once again.

 

[Knicks411]

I'm expecting that if Mike Conley is traded, it'll be to Utah or Detroit.

Having said that, I think there's probably a zero percent chance that this happens, but I kinda think a Conley-John Wall swap makes sense for both teams. Something like Wall, Tomas Satoransky, and Troy Brown for Conley works salary wise.

For Memphis:
This would require them acknowledging that they'll never be able to sign max free agents on their own, so Wall is an opportunity to acquire a borderline-star player that they won't really have an opportunity to do any other time. Swapping Conley for Wall basically solidifies their tank job this year, allowing them to keep their own draft pick and have a shot at Zion/Barrett, either of which would be huge for them. Satoransky can hold it down as the fill-in PG while Wall is hurt and then I believe he's a FA at the end of the year. Troy Brown was a first round pick this year, so they get a nice asset in him.

For Washington:
They get out of that massive contract a year or two early. They don't blow the whole team up (owner has said they do not want to rebuild at all), but at the same time, this shakes up a core that has proven itself to simply not work. I think Conley complements Beal far better than Wall does. At the same time, Brown isn't doing anything for them right now and upgrading from Satoransky to Conley is a gigantic upgrade that almost certainly solidifies Washington as a playoff team once again.

I thin the Wall contract is completely untradeable. (Of course, it is the NBA, so I guess any contract could be traded.)

The Wall contract is 2 years longer than Conley (I'm assuming he picks up the player option for $47 million because, well, come on. He also has a 15% trade kicker, which I guess would make that option like $53 million?)

I think Washington makes that deal in a second. That said, if Washington does trade Wall, that is probably the kind of deal you are talking about, to a team that is unlikely to lure a big FA on their own. Though he may need to come back and prove he's good again before they move him.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I just don't see the Pelicans rolling over to the Lakers prior to the deadline, reading everything coming out from their organization, they just don't feel the Lakers have the best offer and the AD leaks etc etc are just noise at this point and if they say no to LA today they can say yes 4-5 months from now, too many unknowns but their not going to bow down, they know the asset they are holding regardless of how much LA tried to leverage and cast doubt from here through Thursday.

Somebody will take the risk for AD and offer up a really good deal

 

[longislandcuse]

I just don't see the Pelicans rolling over to the Lakers prior to the deadline, reading everything coming out from their organization, they just don't feel the Lakers have the best offer and the AD leaks etc etc are just noise at this point and if they say no to LA today they can say yes 4-5 months from now, too many unknowns but their not going to bow down, they know the asset they are holding regardless of how much LA tried to leverage and cast doubt from here through Thursday.

Somebody will take the risk for AD and offer up a really good deal

If the Lakers offered a package including Ingram, Kuzma and picks, I'd take it if I'm the Pelicans.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

If the Lakers offered a package including Ingram, Kuzma and picks, I'd take it if I'm the Pelicans.

What good are the 1st round picks when they have AD/ LeBron and who knows what else for 2-3 years. Ingram is only 21 and I think he can still be pretty good but that's pretty underwhelming. The Celtics just have better players and draft picks to offer. Knicks will have at least a top 3-4 pick. I doubt the Knicks give up Zion at 1 but at 2-3 they will be listening

They need to wait and see how the lottery goes and AD's Dad popping off is also the work of AD and Clutch. AD has been pretty low key for 6 years but he's letting his agent turn the heat up on this one and that's fine but the Pelicans don't need to panic. Also who knows if they even let Demps make this trade for Ad could be a new GM come April.

Toughest thing is that none of the guys want to be traded to New Orleans but somebody is going to have to live with it

 

[Melancer46]

I'd say Davis to the Lakers is odds-on the most likely if he gets traded this week, but I still think other teams are out there that could top the Lakers offers and I expect at least one team to actually go for it, with the thinking being that at minimum, a Celtics offer will be there in the offseason if Davis' new team ultimately gets the impression that he won't sign with them.

People have mentioned Denver and Toronto as those dark horses, but I think they might view themselves as so good now that it's just an unnecessary risk.

I think the Knicks remain a legitimate contender to get him if they want. They have a ton of picks that they can offer now, plus Knox, DSJ, Frank, the expirings that they just acquired (and Kanter), etc. The idea of adding Davis and then signing Durant and Kyrie/Kemba has to be crazy tempting for them.

I kinda wonder if a middling team goes for it just to see what happens. Maybe a team like Brooklyn that appears to be playoff-bound for the first time in what feels like 7ish years. They have a ton of expiring contracts that they can offer, young prospects that could be flipped like Rodions Kurucs, Dzanan Musa, Caris LeVert, or if they're feeling particularly ballsy, Jarrett Allen, and they also own all of their own draft picks moving forwards after they give this year's pick to Denver. If Davis is willing to sign long-term with the Knicks, maybe the Nets think they could convince him to sign with them too and I think they could potentially have space for a max FA in addition to acquiring Davis if my napkin-math is correct.

A team like Sacramento could could make a strong offer if they're willing to be risky by sending something like Bagley, Cauley-Stein, Justin Jackson, and the expiring contracts of Randolph and McLemore for Davis and Solomon Hill's contract. They too own all of their picks moving forwards after this year's draft.

I'd still be betting on the Lakers getting it done if anyone does this week, but I guess my point is that the fact that Davis has 1.5 years left on his deal makes it more likely IMO that a dark horse team will actually go for it because they can always get cold feet later on and flip him and recover a lot of the costs.

Edit: And if New Orleans prefers a more established center piece in a deal rather than completely blowing it up and going super young, I think a team like Portland could make an interesting offer with something like McCollum, Zach Collins, Anfernee Simons, and draft picks. Washington could do something similar with Beal, Troy Brown, and maybe an exchange of an expiring contract like Markieff Morris for Solomon Hill or something like that along with draft picks.

 

[longislandcuse]

What good are the 1st round picks when they have AD/ LeBron and who knows what else for 2-3 years. Ingram is only 21 and I think he can still be pretty good but that's pretty underwhelming. The Celtics just have better players and draft picks to offer. Knicks will have at least a top 3-4 pick. I doubt the Knicks give up Zion at 1 but at 2-3 they will be listening

They need to wait and see how the lottery goes and AD's Dad popping off is also the work of AD and Clutch. AD has been pretty low key for 6 years but he's letting his agent turn the heat up on this one and that's fine but the Pelicans don't need to panic. Also who knows if they even let Demps make this trade for Ad could be a new GM come April.

Toughest thing is that none of the guys want to be traded to New Orleans but somebody is going to have to live with it

The Knicks aren't trading a Zion first pick, so what are they offering that's better than Ingram/Kuzma etc?... A pick that gets you RJ Barrett or JA Morant and some meh players along with the pick?

 

[Knicks411]

The Knicks aren't trading a Zion first pick, so what are they offering that's better than Ingram/Kuzma etc?... A pick that gets you RJ Barrett or JA Morant and some meh players along with the pick?

You think? I would wager if they won the lottery, and ended up with the dream scenario of Kyrie/KD they would make everything else they have available for Davis. (it might break my heart, I am in love with Zion, but I could see it happening)

 

[longislandcuse]

You think? I would wager if they won the lottery, and ended up with the dream scenario of Kyrie/KD they would make everything else they have available for Davis. (it might break my heart, I am in love with Zion, but I could see it happening)

I think you have to pull the trigger on that too... I guess I'm assuming that we're the Knicks and there's no way all 3 of those things happen.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The Knicks aren't trading a Zion first pick, so what are they offering that's better than Ingram/Kuzma etc?... A pick that gets you RJ Barrett or JA Morant and some meh players along with the pick?

Knox, Smokes, Robinson, Take Kanter, and a couple first rounders including the first pick this year. If they keep Holiday the Pels will want him to play off the ball much more at the 2. So they need a PG

I guess it depends on what you think Ingram can become and if Kuzma will ever decide to play defense at any point in his career.

I am not 100% convinced that Pelicans will fire Demps or Gentry either but we shall see. They could fire Demps and promote Ferry but who knows. Lots of questions to be answered. I really like gentry as a person but he really should be fired as should Demps

 

[Knicks411]

I think you have to pull the trigger on that too... I guess I'm assuming that we're the Knicks and there's no way all 3 of those things happen.

Oh yeah obviously, I'm assuming we end up with like the 4th pick and Boogie on a max deal or something

 

[IthacaBarrel]

You think? I would wager if they won the lottery, and ended up with the dream scenario of Kyrie/KD they would make everything else they have available for Davis. (it might break my heart, I am in love with Zion, but I could see it happening)

Yeah- that would be a tough call but I tend to agree with you, I think the Knicks would have to go all in if they had Kyrie/ KD but really tough call. Would be a nice spot to be in for sure. I think it's pretty clear that the KP trade is probably the first move in about 3-4 for the knicks though and they have clearly been tanking for some time now.. Going to be a few games where Dennis Smith will need to be reminded of that though.

 

[Knicks411]

Here's an amazing Knicks stat for you; the Knicks have won one game in regulation since November 26.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Here's an amazing Knicks stat for you; the Knicks have won one game in regulation since November 26.

They came out of the gate playing hard for Fizdale and then somebody flipped a switch and said go into full tank mode and rightfully so. Really when the KD rumors started to really ramp up, really going to be great watch to see how this whole off season plays out.

The AD anti Celtic banter should only help the Knicks too and the Pelicans have to see this deal through, it's huge for the franchise

 

[Knicks411]

Davis added more teams to his list, but Boston still not on it.