NBA 2018-2019

[Alsacs]

If Davis is so ant- Celtics does he believe that Kyrie is not resigning? so confusing

Kyrie situation is why Davis hates Boston.
The team tried to improve itself over giving Isaiah Thomas money.
By trading IT for Kyrie the Celtics aren’t an organization Davis wants to play for.

 

[Horn88]

I agree. I also think people are still not giving BI and Zo enough runway to get better. They are good players that can still get better. If I were a Lakers fan, I would be really nervous if this trade goes through. I know Bron seems superhuman, but he is 36 (I think) and AD isn't exactly a picture of health. Gutting your team for AD is a big risk.

I was thinking the same but wasn't sure if I was crazy for thinking it was too much for a guy like AD. Lonzo and Ingram are both still really, really young and it's not like they're bad players. They just aren't these no brainer all stars yet like some people expected but that doesn't mean they won't continue to develop and get better. Ingram is still only 21 and just averaged 19, 6 and 4 for the month of January while LeBron was out.

As you said, it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for the Lakers to have LeBron, cap space to go after another piece or two this offseason and then still have all those young guys to develop and get better as opposed to an aging LeBron, AD and then a roster of vet minimums which would be the case if they have to take back Hill's contract.

I really think next year the NBA opens up quite a bit when/if Durant leaves Golden State.

 

[Melancer46]

I think the Lakers prospects are, in general, overrated. I think Ingram has the potential to become a fringe all-star, but that's their most valuable guy IMO. Trading literally the entire Lakers team outside of LeBron for Davis might be a little too much just from a "you'll have to rebuild the entire roster at that point" perspective, but I don't blame the Pelicans for demanding more either.

In my opinion, none of Ingram, Kuzma, and Lonzo are ideal starters right now. Obviously the hope is that they all improve, but Kuzma is already 23 years old and is basically a spot-up version of Jabari Parker right now. Ingram has flashed scoring upside in terms of creating his own shot, but he's always been a low-efficiency guy He does at least defend though so there's still some potential there. Lonzo brings a lot of potential value to the floor but his shooting woes is a huge obstacle for him to overcome if he ever wants to become an above-average starter and I'm still not really confident in him as a lead ball-handler either.

To me, the Lakers package reminds of the Knicks package back when they traded for Carmelo, just tinted in forum blue and gold. I wouldn't feel very confident about any of those guys becoming impactful starters in their careers.

I think the Knicks and Celtics can easily beat the Lakers best offer, and if other teams aren't deterred by Davis' list of teams that he'll sign with, teams like Denver, Portland, and maybe Toronto can all make comparable, if not better, offers too.

On a side note, I don't get why the Pelicans are even bothering with the inclusion of Solomon Hill. His contract can't possibly matter to them; they're looking at a multi-year rebuild and his contract extends for only one more season and it's not even a back-breaking number like Ryan Anderson or anything. The only thing including Hill does is diminish their own return.

 

[Melancer46]

Okay, NOW John Wall's contract is probably the most untradable in the league. Slipped and fell at home, rupturing his Achilles. Out for 12 months and who knows what he'll be when he comes back.

 

[Trueblue25]

Kyrie situation is why Davis hates Boston.
The team tried to improve itself over giving Isaiah Thomas money.
By trading IT for Kyrie the Celtics aren’t an organization Davis wants to play for.

Well if he wants to lose, the knicks are always open

 

[OrangeDW]

Okay, NOW John Wall's contract is probably the most untradable in the league. Slipped and fell at home, rupturing his Achilles. Out for 12 months and who knows what he'll be when he comes back.

Developed an infection after his bone spurs surgery, too. That is horrible.

 

[chugg21]

Kyrie situation is why Davis hates Boston.
The team tried to improve itself over giving Isaiah Thomas money.
By trading IT for Kyrie the Celtics aren’t an organization Davis wants to play for.

I don't even think that's a real thing. That's just agent driven posturing, regardless of who said it, to try to get him to LA because Boston is/was the most likely outcome. Same thing as adding 2 teams to the trade list who have almost no ability to make a trade because Harris/Middleton are FAs. Might as well add the Hawks and Pistons to the list.

 

[chugg21]

I think the Lakers prospects are, in general, overrated. I think Ingram has the potential to become a fringe all-star, but that's their most valuable guy IMO. Trading literally the entire Lakers team outside of LeBron for Davis might be a little too much just from a "you'll have to rebuild the entire roster at that point" perspective, but I don't blame the Pelicans for demanding more either.

In my opinion, none of Ingram, Kuzma, and Lonzo are ideal starters right now. Obviously the hope is that they all improve, but Kuzma is already 23 years old and is basically a spot-up version of Jabari Parker right now. Ingram has flashed scoring upside in terms of creating his own shot, but he's always been a low-efficiency guy He does at least defend though so there's still some potential there. Lonzo brings a lot of potential value to the floor but his shooting woes is a huge obstacle for him to overcome if he ever wants to become an above-average starter and I'm still not really confident in him as a lead ball-handler either.

To me, the Lakers package reminds of the Knicks package back when they traded for Carmelo, just tinted in forum blue and gold. I wouldn't feel very confident about any of those guys becoming impactful starters in their careers.

I think the Knicks and Celtics can easily beat the Lakers best offer, and if other teams aren't deterred by Davis' list of teams that he'll sign with, teams like Denver, Portland, and maybe Toronto can all make comparable, if not better, offers too.

On a side note, I don't get why the Pelicans are even bothering with the inclusion of Solomon Hill. His contract can't possibly matter to them; they're looking at a multi-year rebuild and his contract extends for only one more season and it's not even a back-breaking number like Ryan Anderson or anything. The only thing including Hill does is diminish their own return.

Getting rid of that Hill deal opens them up to future possibilities of being a dumping ground for bad contracts in exchange for assets. Can hit the jackpot if you do it right but with the amount of cap space that is going to open up over the next 2 summers, cap space might not be as valuable as it has been the past 2 years.

 

[Melancer46]

Getting rid of that Hill deal opens them up to future possibilities of being a dumping ground for bad contracts in exchange for assets. Can hit the jackpot if you do it right but with the amount of cap space that is going to open up over the next 2 summers, cap space might not be as valuable as it has been the past 2 years.

It's only $13 million bucks for next season and then it's over. They'll probably be well under the cap anyways. As is, without acquiring any expiring contracts for Davis, they're looking at $25-30 million in cap space this summer. If they acquire any expiring contracts this week, they'll have even more. The Solomon Hill contract shouldn't really matter, and if they just keep him now, they could use his contract next season as an expiring deal to extract an asset that way.

 

[Horn88]

Brad Turner saying Lakers pulling out of trade talks with the Pelicans. Really can't help but feel like Pelicans are going to get to the summer and end up taking a package that is pretty underwhelming. I mean why would Ainge roll out his best offer when he knows he's probably the only real option for NO? Apparently last night the Lakers offered Lonzo, Kuzma, Ingram, Hart, Zubac, KCP and 2 first round picks for Davis and Hill and New Orleans said no.

Lakers pull out of Anthony Davis trade talks amid 'outrageous' requests by Pelicans

 

[chugg21]

It's only $13 million bucks for next season and then it's over. They'll probably be well under the cap anyways. As is, without acquiring any expiring contracts for Davis, they're looking at $25-30 million in cap space this summer. If they acquire any expiring contracts this week, they'll have even more. The Solomon Hill contract shouldn't really matter, and if they just keep him now, they could use his contract next season as an expiring deal to extract an asset that way.

The majority of the crap deals in the league are all expiring next year. Will be too late. And the 2020 FA class is horrible. Cap space is going to far outweigh deserving dollars.

 

[chugg21]

Brad Turner saying Lakers pulling out of trade talks with the Pelicans. Really can't help but feel like Pelicans are going to get to the summer and end up taking a package that is pretty underwhelming. I mean why would Ainge roll out his best offer when he knows he's probably the only real option for NO? Apparently last night the Lakers offered Lonzo, Kuzma, Ingram, Hart, Zubac, KCP and 2 first round picks for Davis and Hill and New Orleans said no.

Lakers pull out of Anthony Davis trade talks amid 'outrageous' requests by Pelicans

That's what happens when you try to trade 4 quarters for a dollar. That can work in other sports but in the NBA you can only play 5 guys at a time so trading quality for quantity is a death move.

 

[Horn88]

That's what happens when you try to trade 4 quarters for a dollar. That can work in other sports but in the NBA you can only play 5 guys at a time so trading quality for quantity is a death move.

Who will be giving New Orleans a dollar in return for Davis? Ainge has no reason to give up Tatum with the growing chance Kyrie leaves and AD making it clear he wants no part of Boston.

 

[OrangeDW]

Brad Turner saying Lakers pulling out of trade talks with the Pelicans. Really can't help but feel like Pelicans are going to get to the summer and end up taking a package that is pretty underwhelming. I mean why would Ainge roll out his best offer when he knows he's probably the only real option for NO? Apparently last night the Lakers offered Lonzo, Kuzma, Ingram, Hart, Zubac, KCP and 2 first round picks for Davis and Hill and New Orleans said no.

Lakers pull out of Anthony Davis trade talks amid 'outrageous' requests by Pelicans

N.O. has zero leverage here. Let them wait then.

 

[Horn88]

N.O. has zero leverage here. Let them wait then.

Completely agree. Not that I think the Lakers offer is full of world beaters or anything but unless the Knicks offer up a pick that can be Zion/Morant/Barrett with some other young pieces, Celtics actually do give a legit offer or a third team steps in then I don't know what that return will look like.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

N.O. has zero leverage here. Let them wait then.

Completely disagree. They have a top 5 player with a full year on his contract. Somebody will bite and they clearly don't value the Lakers current assets nor are they going to be forced by Klutch sports and the Lakers to make a deal they don't really want. In addition, they may clean house come April and their new management team would want to make the deal. Lavar spouting off didn't help either.

The deal the Lakers offered is acceptable only if they want the players offered. Ball would be a great fit in Gentry's system but who knows if Gentry will even be the coach next year.

If the Celts offer Tatum/Smart and maybe Horford and two firsts that they currently possess, probably better off but who knows. Sure it could backfire but I like the call by Pelicans.

Pelicans could have starting 5 of Holiday, Smart, Tatum, Mirotic ( if they resign him) Horford next year. Not too shabby.

The Knicks spot in the lottery is the next big piece if this goes past the deadline.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Developed an infection after his bone spurs surgery, too. That is horrible.

Has to be related. I'm guessing he had some weakness there before he tore it.

 

[OrangeDW]

Completely agree. Not that I think the Lakers offer is full of world beaters or anything but unless the Knicks offer up a pick that can be Zion/Morant/Barrett with some other young pieces, Celtics actually do give a legit offer or a third team steps in then I don't know what that return will look like.

Wanting four first rounders is laughable, IMO.

 

[OrangeDW]

Completely disagree. They have a top 5 player with a full year on his contract. Somebody will bite and they clearly don't value the Lakers current assets nor are they going to be forced by Klutch sports and the Lakers to make a deal they don't really want. In addition, they may clean house come April and their new management team would want to make the deal. Lavar spouting off didn't help either.

The deal the Lakers offered is acceptable only if they want the players offered. Ball would be a great fit in Gentry's system but who knows if Gentry will even be the coach next year.

If the Celts offer Tatum/Smart and maybe Horford and two firsts that they currently possess, probably better off but who knows. Sure it could backfire but I like the call by Pelicans.

Pelicans could have starting 5 of Holiday, Smart, Tatum, Mirotic ( if they resign him) Horford next year. Not too shabby.

The Knicks spot in the lottery is the next big piece if this goes past the deadline.

Celts aren’t going to give up Tatum for a guy who doesn’t want to play there.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

If the Pelicans choose to sit Davis they will catch some serious junk from the player's union as well as the Adam Silver and the league which won't be good

 

[chugg21]

Who will be giving New Orleans a dollar in return for Davis? Ainge has no reason to give up Tatum with the growing chance Kyrie leaves and AD making it clear he wants no part of Boston.

At the start of the week there was 2 desperate teams and on July 1st there will be 2 desperate teams. Nothing has changed. The media has tried to create a Kyrie situation that apparently doesn't really exist. Rich is doing his best to help out his buddy and get him to LA but New Orleans isn't dumb enough to screw themselves by only dealing with 1 team.

 

[chugg21]

Completely disagree. They have a top 5 player with a full year on his contract. Somebody will bite and they clearly don't value the Lakers current assets nor are they going to be forced by Klutch sports and the Lakers to make a deal they don't really want. In addition, they may clean house come April and their new management team would want to make the deal. Lavar spouting off didn't help either.

The deal the Lakers offered is acceptable only if they want the players offered. Ball would be a great fit in Gentry's system but who knows if Gentry will even be the coach next year.

If the Celts offer Tatum/Smart and maybe Horford and two firsts that they currently possess, probably better off but who knows. Sure it could backfire but I like the call by Pelicans.

Pelicans could have starting 5 of Holiday, Smart, Tatum, Mirotic ( if they resign him) Horford next year. Not too shabby.

The Knicks spot in the lottery is the next big piece if this goes past the deadline.

Completely agree. Dealing him now would be foolish and to think that they have no leverage is crazy talk. They have the piece that every other team in the league would kill for.

 

[Melancer46]

Wanting four first rounders is laughable, IMO.

It's really not. Not too long ago Houston offered four first rounders for Jimmy Butler. Hell, Boston offered four for Justise Winslow if I remember right. None of those first round picks are likely to be worth much individually.

 

[Horn88]

Mannix is reporting Celtics have refused to directly dangle Tatum in trade talks but the Pelicans have the impression nothing is off the table. I feel like everyone can see a mile away that Tatum isn't going to be offered to the Pelicans except the Pelicans.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Completely agree. Dealing him now would be foolish and to think that they have no leverage is crazy talk. They have the piece that every other team in the league would kill for.

Yep and I think the Boston stuff is coming from a loose canon Dad and Klutch sports. Celts will be a serious player if Kyrie stays and possibly if he leaves as well, nobody knows but the Pelicans need to let this play out just a bit more, can't get an itchy trigger finger at this point. Lakers/ Klutch have tried everything they can to stir up a hornets nest to try and get this trade done but I believe it will be unsuccessful. Lakers and their entire team with LeBron and Klutch played bully ball and it failed. AD being played a bit here too as this isn't his standard operating procedure and it's not a good look on his end. This all could have been done behind closed doors and behind the scenes but his team figured this was the better route.

At the end of the day, Celtics probably still have best package to offer and the deal probably isn't Demps to make so Gayle Benson and Loomis said we are going to wait unless they give us EVERYTHING and then more after that. Good for you Gayle.