NBA 2018-2019

Horn88

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It's still kind of odd to me that the Pelicans are considered such a small market, crap franchise in the NBA but the Saints aren't really considered small market in the NFL. They play literally a 5 iron away from each other in buildings that are equally not great. It's still such a young franchise and I guess since they have no history of success that there just wasn't ever a strong core fan base developed. Every game I go to usually has decent seats avail for under 20 bucks. Still, I can think of a lot of worse places to be in the league if I was a young famous African-American millionaire than NOLA. Hell, I can certainly think of more than are worse than better.
Small markets work a lot differently in the NFL vs the NBA though, too.
This isn't the case with NOLA and it isn't really openly discussed by media for obvious reasons but "big market" in the NBA is sometimes just code for "strong nightlife and lots of beautiful women". It's why Cleveland is considered "small market" and Miami referred to as "big market" even though one is 19th in market size and the other is 16th. Social media has helped though with instagram and twitter.

I don't think this is the case with NOLA because I agree that NOLA would be a great place to live for a lot of these young black guys in their 20's and early 30's but it is the second smallest market in the league behind the Grizzlies. I think their problem is just guys don't trust the front office right now.

It's also a big reason why Boston is never mentioned by many of the young players as a big market destination despite the literal market size because, and I can speak from experience, Boston isn't a fun place to live when you're a black guy in your 20's. I realized real quick that wasn't the move and got out.
 

Alsacs

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NFL has 100% revenue sharing so matter if you are Green Bay or Dallas all revenue is divided outside of PSLs and local TV/preseason/radio/ and local sponsorship deals.
In the NBA there isn’t complete revenue sharing and big market teams make more money.
 

IthacaBarrel

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This isn't the case with NOLA and it isn't really openly discussed by media for obvious reasons but "big market" in the NBA is sometimes just code for "strong nightlife and lots of beautiful women". It's why Cleveland is considered "small market" and Miami referred to as "big market" even though one is 19th in market size and the other is 16th. Social media has helped though with instagram and twitter.

I don't think this is the case with NOLA because I agree that NOLA would be a great place to live for a lot of these young black guys in their 20's and early 30's but it is the second smallest market in the league behind the Grizzlies. I think their problem is just guys don't trust the front office right now.

It's also a big reason why Boston is never mentioned by many of the young players as a big market destination despite the literal market size because, and I can speak from experience, Boston isn't a fun place to live when you're a black guy in your 20's. I realized real quick that wasn't the move and got out.

Great post, agree 100%
 

chugg21

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NFL has 100% revenue sharing so matter if you are Green Bay or Dallas all revenue is divided outside of PSLs and local TV/preseason/radio/ and local sponsorship deals.
In the NBA there isn’t complete revenue sharing and big market teams make more money.
Not sure that is particularly relevant when revenues are greater than expenses and franchise values are growing at 15-20% per year recently.
 

chugg21

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This isn't the case with NOLA and it isn't really openly discussed by media for obvious reasons but "big market" in the NBA is sometimes just code for "strong nightlife and lots of beautiful women". It's why Cleveland is considered "small market" and Miami referred to as "big market" even though one is 19th in market size and the other is 16th. Social media has helped though with instagram and twitter.

I don't think this is the case with NOLA because I agree that NOLA would be a great place to live for a lot of these young black guys in their 20's and early 30's but it is the second smallest market in the league behind the Grizzlies. I think their problem is just guys don't trust the front office right now.

It's also a big reason why Boston is never mentioned by many of the young players as a big market destination despite the literal market size because, and I can speak from experience, Boston isn't a fun place to live when you're a black guy in your 20's. I realized real quick that wasn't the move and got out.
Think you are pretty on point. Small/Big market is an antiquated term. It's now glamour/non-glamour markets. Basically NY/LA/MIA are the only ones that stay there permanently. Chicago is out because they are a disaster of a franchise currently, GS is in because of the opposite. Houston is probably in because of Harden and because no state income tax helps. Brooklyn might be able to get themselves there given their current trajectory and aptitude.

Think the same thing you mentioned with NOLA is what keeps Atlanta down as well. Those 2 cities should be places that guys want to play but instead stay the hell away from. Toronto is another one that should be a glamour market but dudes just have no desire to play there until they actually do and realize how incredible the city is. The tax situation is brutal though.
 

OttoinGrotto

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Think you are pretty on point. Small/Big market is an antiquated term. It's now glamour/non-glamour markets. Basically NY/LA/MIA are the only ones that stay there permanently. Chicago is out because they are a disaster of a franchise currently, GS is in because of the opposite. Houston is probably in because of Harden and because no state income tax helps. Brooklyn might be able to get themselves there given their current trajectory and aptitude.

Think the same thing you mentioned with NOLA is what keeps Atlanta down as well. Those 2 cities should be places that guys want to play but instead stay the hell away from. Toronto is another one that should be a glamour market but dudes just have no desire to play there until they actually do and realize how incredible the city is. The tax situation is brutal though.
Salt Lake is similar. Once people live here they like it a lot, but usually they have to experience it before they buy in.
 

NailstheCusefan12

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Salt Lake is similar. Once people live here they like it a lot, but usually they have to experience it before they buy in.
Feels like Denver has a similar problem. They’re a big time free agent away from being taken seriously in that upper echelon. They got Millsap but that hasn’t panned out and I still don’t know how many other options he had when he signed.
 

Horn88

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Think you are pretty on point. Small/Big market is an antiquated term. It's now glamour/non-glamour markets. Basically NY/LA/MIA are the only ones that stay there permanently. Chicago is out because they are a disaster of a franchise currently, GS is in because of the opposite. Houston is probably in because of Harden and because no state income tax helps. Brooklyn might be able to get themselves there given their current trajectory and aptitude.

Think the same thing you mentioned with NOLA is what keeps Atlanta down as well. Those 2 cities should be places that guys want to play but instead stay the hell away from. Toronto is another one that should be a glamour market but dudes just have no desire to play there until they actually do and realize how incredible the city is. The tax situation is brutal though.
A lot of the young NBA guys love living in Houston for the nightlife. There's a reason Harden has found a home there and rappers spend a lot of time there. That helps a lot for attracting free agents. I'm with you on Atlanta and NOLA. If they build a contender they won't have any problem at all attracting free agent role players or supplemental pieces to fill out their roster. That's one of the areas where it makes the biggest difference when a star is trying to attract depth in free agency and he can sell them on living in some cities over others.

Toronto I think guys just don't like the idea of living in Canada but if Toronto was on the other side of the border its perception would be much different.

Salt Lake is similar. Once people live here they like it a lot, but usually they have to experience it before they buy in.
A lot of players who are a little older and are married with families love SLC. It's repuation around the league with guys is that if you're single and want the clubs and women SLC aint it but once you get married and have some kids it's one of the best NBA cities to raise a family.
 

OttoinGrotto

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A lot of players who are a little older and are married with families love SLC. It's repuation around the league with guys is that if you're single and want the clubs and women SLC aint it but once you get married and have some kids it's one of the best NBA cities to raise a family.
I know some people that work in the Miller Empire and one of the things they say the Jazz do to differentiate themselves is that they have a whole support structure built around the idea that if you play basketball for the Jazz you will have everything taken care of around you so you can focus exclusively on being the best professional basketball player you can be. They go to incredible lengths to free up their players to only worry about developing. It's actually kinda cool, but like you said, even though young players would benefit from that a ton, not all of them understand the value of what's being offered there early in their careers.
 

chugg21

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Salt Lake is similar. Once people live here they like it a lot, but usually they have to experience it before they buy in.
In all honesty, I always thought it was some bizarre Mormon place that would be terrible. Then I had to go to work and realized that it is a bizarre Mormon place but that it is beautiful and clean and took my wife back again shortly thereafter.
 

OttoinGrotto

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In all honesty, I always thought it was some bizarre Mormon place that would be terrible. Then I had to go to work and realized that it is a bizarre Mormon place but that it is beautiful and clean and took my wife back again shortly thereafter.
I mean, I'm a Mormon that grew up in New York, and before I lived in Utah I also thought Utah was a bizarre Mormon place.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

chugg21

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A lot of the young NBA guys love living in Houston for the nightlife. There's a reason Harden has found a home there and rappers spend a lot of time there. That helps a lot for attracting free agents. I'm with you on Atlanta and NOLA. If they build a contender they won't have any problem at all attracting free agent role players or supplemental pieces to fill out their roster. That's one of the areas where it makes the biggest difference when a star is trying to attract depth in free agency and he can sell them on living in some cities over others.
My Wife and I are looking into moving to College Station or Houston later this year. Neither of us has been to either place besides the airport but we're going to check it out in 2 days. Started researching Houston and watching travel channel shows and things and it seems like a really great place to live. So many different cultures all mixed together. One of my college buddys lived there for a while and said it's the best place he's ever lived. Compared it to NYC if everything was cheaper, cleaner, warmer and people were nice.
 

IthacaBarrel

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What's weird about the AD situation is he is married and has a kid, and also a very low key guy for the most part. He also has appeared to like NOLA up until now. If his issues are basketball related that is understandable but with the Klutch sports signing it's obviously just been a master plan to play for the Lakers and LeBron from day one and that is why people are so irritated. The old don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

He has every right to play his hand but so do the Pelicans
 
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chugg21

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I mean, I'm a Mormon that grew up in New York, and before I lived in Utah I also thought Utah was a bizarre Mormon place.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Fell in love with Utah after visiting, natural beauty wise, I put it only behind California. Though I suspect that Colorado would be close but haven't really explored enough to say. I also was very fond of all of the different Mole that they have at Red Iguana.

The one thing that was very bizarre to me was that when we went to the Uinta brewery, the beers that they had on tap all had to be like 4% or less but that you could just buy a bottled version of the same beer with the normal %. Seemed strange and antiquated.
 

kirbivore

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This isn't the case with NOLA and it isn't really openly discussed by media for obvious reasons but "big market" in the NBA is sometimes just code for "strong nightlife and lots of beautiful women". It's why Cleveland is considered "small market" and Miami referred to as "big market" even though one is 19th in market size and the other is 16th. Social media has helped though with instagram and twitter.

I don't think this is the case with NOLA because I agree that NOLA would be a great place to live for a lot of these young black guys in their 20's and early 30's but it is the second smallest market in the league behind the Grizzlies. I think their problem is just guys don't trust the front office right now.

It's also a big reason why Boston is never mentioned by many of the young players as a big market destination despite the literal market size because, and I can speak from experience, Boston isn't a fun place to live when you're a black guy in your 20's. I realized real quick that wasn't the move and got out.
How long ago. Whenever someone calls Boston the most racist city north of the mason Dixon inevitably you'll get the response of "that's ancient history"
 

Alsacs

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Not sure that is particularly relevant when revenues are greater than expenses and franchise values are growing at 15-20% per year recently.
Value of a franchise are tied to TV contracts as that is guaranteed revenue without selling a single ticket then the more valuable franchises are in more lucrative markets and can make more in ticket sales and local sponsorships.
 

chugg21

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Value of a franchise are tied to TV contracts as that is guaranteed revenue without selling a single ticket then the more valuable franchises are in more lucrative markets and can make more in ticket sales and local sponsorships.
The Pelicans have went from being purchased for $338m to a present day evaluation of $1.1b in 6 years. The actual market size does not matter whatsoever in regards to who can afford what on the court when there is growth at that rate and a salary cap keeping things under like $250m a year. It's just up to how greedy the owner is.
 

Horn88

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How long ago. Whenever someone calls Boston the most racist city north of the mason Dixon inevitably you'll get the response of "that's ancient history"
I lived there ~10 years ago. Whether it's the most racist city, that I can't really say one way or the other. It definitely is noticably and considerably more segregated than other major cities in the country I've been to. Lots of old money and New England elitist types that are smart enough not to say/do anything that will make them end up in some viral video but still treat you in a way that makes it known they think they're above you.

Shortly after I moved there I heard from two other friends, also black, that most black people just go to house parties on the weekends or go out in Dorchester because they'll probably get hassled by drunk white guys if they go out to Faneuil or Boylston areas. Boston Police won't be on your side if any fight comes from it so better to just stay away. Certain areas you probably shouldn't go on St. Patrick's day if you aren't white. That sort of thing.

In my earlier post, I was referencing Boston not really having much to offer in options for young black guys as opposed to going out in some of the other cities mentioned. Compared to say a Philly where you walk into a random bar after dinner and you'll have both white and black people in there with a variety of music and people just having a good time. Boston you need to work or go out of your way to find those types of places.
 

Alsacs

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The Pelicans have went from being purchased for $338m to a present day evaluation of $1.1b in 6 years. The actual market size does not matter whatsoever in regards to who can afford what on the court when there is growth at that rate and a salary cap keeping things under like $250m a year. It's just up to how greedy the owner is.
The Pelicans value went up because ESPN and Turner went from 930 million a year to broadcast games to 2.4 billion.
That is guaranteed revenue.
Thus the values of a franchise a lot more.
 

chugg21

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The Pelicans value went up because ESPN and Turner went from 930 million a year to broadcast games to 2.4 billion.
That is guaranteed revenue.
Thus the values of a franchise a lot more.
And since that money is getting split up evenly then I still don't get what point you were making regarding big markets still make more money. When just this 1 revenue stream essentially covers the majority of your player expenses, all teams are operating in a big market sense.
 

Alsacs

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And since that money is getting split up evenly then I still don't get what point you were making regarding big markets still make more money. When just this 1 revenue stream essentially covers the majority of your player expenses, all teams are operating in a big market sense.
The Lakers courtside seats probably bring that lake or revenue a couple million to 10 million each year extra then say the Phoenix Suns.
 

chugg21

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The Lakers courtside seats probably bring that lake or revenue a couple million to 10 million each year extra then say the Phoenix Suns.
But please explain how/why that matters when every team can spend above the cap with no issues. The only ones that don't are the ones that aren't trying to win. The big markets and big time revenue streams only matter in baseball where teams can spend anything they want. No one in the NBA has really started to take on the repeater tax. Even in baseball teams are starting not to want to mess with it.
 

Alsacs

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But please explain how/why that matters when every team can spend above the cap with no issues. The only ones that don't are the ones that aren't trying to win. The big markets and big time revenue streams only matter in baseball where teams can spend anything they want. No one in the NBA has really started to take on the repeater tax. Even in baseball teams are starting not to want to mess with it.
That has to do with the value of the franchises. As I thought that was the whole point of this.
The Hornets aren’t worth as much because they can’t sell what the top teams can even if those teams suck.
The Knicks are worth a lot because their fans don’t stop coming.
 

chugg21

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That has to do with the value of the franchises. As I thought that was the whole point of this.
The Hornets aren’t worth as much because they can’t sell what the top teams can even if those teams suck.
The Knicks are worth a lot because their fans don’t stop coming.
Guess we were arguing 2 different things. Thought in your initial post you were talking about big markets having a built in advantage in the NBA that the NFL doesn't. I didn't see how that was the case in terms of how it could effect the on court product. By all means I agree they do for franchise valuations.
 

Alsacs

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Guess we were arguing 2 different things. Thought in your initial post you were talking about big markets having a built in advantage in the NBA that the NFL doesn't. I didn't see how that was the case in terms of how it could effect the on court product. By all means I agree they do for franchise valuations.
Nah I meant for franchise value not an advantage for team success.
In the NBA location matters more than market.
Miami, Los Angeles have advantages because of location more than market size.
 

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