NBA 2018-2019

[Knicks411]

All NBA Teams right now?

1st Team:
Steph
Harden
PG13
Greek Freak
Jokic

2nd Team
Dame
Russ
KD
Kawhi
Jo

3rd Team
Kyrie
Beal
Bron
Blake
KAT (I think - Would Ant Davis go here?)

Lowe and Russilo did a long podcast about this. Good listen.

For me, I think you have to flip Jokic and Embiid; Embiid is so great on both ends of the floor. You could also argue Russ on the second team; his shooting # of atrocious. Kyrie has been incredible on the offensive end this year, but theres something weird going on with that team so I dunno.

I think you could argue Lebron vs Kawhi for the second team spot. And I guess Kat vs Gobert for third team center? (I dont think Davis has a chance in hell)

I think your list is a pretty good guess of how it ends up. Also worth pointing out, if Beal or Kemba make all league, they are eligible for the super max.

Is Harden pushing Giannis for MVP now?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Lowe and Russilo did a long podcast about this. Good listen.

For me, I think you have to flip Jokic and Embiid; Embiid is so great on both ends of the floor. You could also argue Russ on the second team; his shooting # of atrocious. Kyrie has been incredible on the offensive end this year, but theres something weird going on with that team so I dunno.

I think you could argue Lebron vs Kawhi for the second team spot. And I guess Kat vs Gobert for third team center? (I dont think Davis has a chance in hell)

I think your list is a pretty good guess of how it ends up. Also worth pointing out, if Beal or Kemba make all league, they are eligible for the super max.

Is Harden pushing Giannis for MVP now?

I don't understand the love for KAT.

For all he does on the court, his team loses.

He needed Jimmy Butler to drag him into the playoffs. He's accomplished nothing on his own. He's not even a big market player.

I just do not get it.

Gobert wins.

 

[Trueblue25]

I don't understand the love for KAT.

For all he does on the court, his team loses.

He needed Jimmy Butler to drag him into the playoffs. He's accomplished nothing on his own. He's not even a big market player.

I just do not get it.

Gobert wins.

Agreed.

Watching Butler will that team made me realize I was a damned idiot not wanting the celtics to pick him up two years ago

 

[chugg21]

I don't understand the love for KAT.

For all he does on the court, his team loses.

He needed Jimmy Butler to drag him into the playoffs. He's accomplished nothing on his own. He's not even a big market player.

I just do not get it.

Gobert wins.

He is surrounded by garbage, what is he supposed to do in the West? Wiggins and Teague are essentially negatives and Towns is damn near a 50/40/90 guy as a Center, it's pretty damn incredible. Would think that after seeing LeBron unable to get a team of garbage to the playoffs in the West that folks would start to grasp how much more difficult that conference is. Towns already is what everyone that worships Porzingis thinks he can become.

 

[MikeSU02]

Lowe and Russilo did a long podcast about this. Good listen.

For me, I think you have to flip Jokic and Embiid; Embiid is so great on both ends of the floor. You could also argue Russ on the second team; his shooting # of atrocious. Kyrie has been incredible on the offensive end this year, but theres something weird going on with that team so I dunno.

I think you could argue Lebron vs Kawhi for the second team spot. And I guess Kat vs Gobert for third team center? (I dont think Davis has a chance in hell)

I think your list is a pretty good guess of how it ends up. Also worth pointing out, if Beal or Kemba make all league, they are eligible for the super max.

Is Harden pushing Giannis for MVP now?

I still think it's Giannis. I cant get past if the two are close in offensive production, then I think you need to look at defense and it's not even close.

 

[Melancer46]

I'm obviously biased as a Bucks fan, but I think Giannis should be the MVP as well despite Harden having an incredible season in his own right.

Sportscenter had an interesting and confusing segment last night in which they asked the question "Has Harden already locked up the MVP award?" while showing a graphic of the Vegas odds that implied Giannis had a 65-75% chance of winning lol

 

[Melancer46]

I can't get enough of watching Bledsoe defend Harden. It's hilarious and has been incredibly effective. Granted a lot of PGs aren't as athletic as Bledsoe/willing to dig in as much as Bledsoe to pressure a guy from behind like him, but it's just such an exaggerated form of shading a guy.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

He is surrounded by garbage, what is he supposed to do in the West? Wiggins and Teague are essentially negatives and Towns is damn near a 50/40/90 guy as a Center, it's pretty damn incredible. Would think that after seeing LeBron unable to get a team of garbage to the playoffs in the West that folks would start to grasp how much more difficult that conference is. Towns already is what everyone that worships Porzingis thinks he can become.

None of that means he merits all-star/all-NBA selections.

Look, you won't find anybody on this board that believes in the Western Conference more than I do. But I also don't understand why for recognition purposes sometimes people go out of their way to reward players that don't win over players that to do.

Part of it is I think Gobert is criminally overlooked. It's not cool to have traditional big men, but in an era of stretch bigs Gobert dominates. It's not a Ben Wallace situation either. The Jazz wouldn't be able to run what they do offensively without his scoring threat and his effectiveness freeing up space for their other players. Ever since Gobert became a starter the Jazz have won. That's not a coincidence. So why is he an afterthought but KAT always comes up in these conversations? Because people get all hot and bothered over ppg? We're in the era of stats nerds. We're smarter than that though. Except we're not.

 

[Melancer46]

None of that means he merits all-star/all-NBA selections.

Look, you won't find anybody on this board that believes in the Western Conference more than I do. But I also don't understand why for recognition purposes sometimes people go out of their way to reward players that don't win over players that to do.

Part of it is I think Gobert is criminally overlooked. It's not cool to have traditional big men, but in an era of stretch bigs Gobert dominates. It's not a Ben Wallace situation either. The Jazz wouldn't be able to run what they do offensively without his scoring threat and his effectiveness freeing up space for their other players. Ever since Gobert became a starter the Jazz have won. That's not a coincidence. So why is he an afterthought but KAT always comes up in these conversations? Because people get all hot and bothered over ppg? We're in the era of stats nerds. We're smarter than that though. Except we're not.

If a guy like Gobert is going to make the All-NBA over a guy with the stats of Towns, it's because the advanced metrics point to Gobert as being more impactful even if his stats aren't as impressive. This year, though, that's not the case. On top of the usual counting stats being tilted in Towns' favor, the off/on court splits, BPM, and VORP all go in favor of Towns.

Gobert is still obviously a huge defensive force and an amazing rebounder, but unlike past years, Towns has finally been good defensively while also being a freakazoid offensively. Towns has been good enough defensively this year that the gap in their offensive production significantly outweighs the gap in defense.

I think the three center spots on All-NBA teams are easy decisions this year (in terms of the who the 3 are; the question is Embiid vs. Jokic for first team

 

[chugg21]

None of that means he merits all-star/all-NBA selections.

Look, you won't find anybody on this board that believes in the Western Conference more than I do. But I also don't understand why for recognition purposes sometimes people go out of their way to reward players that don't win over players that to do.

Part of it is I think Gobert is criminally overlooked. It's not cool to have traditional big men, but in an era of stretch bigs Gobert dominates. It's not a Ben Wallace situation either. The Jazz wouldn't be able to run what they do offensively without his scoring threat and his effectiveness freeing up space for their other players. Ever since Gobert became a starter the Jazz have won. That's not a coincidence. So why is he an afterthought but KAT always comes up in these conversations? Because people get all hot and bothered over ppg? We're in the era of stats nerds. We're smarter than that though. Except we're not.

I don't think that anyone in the world thinks that Gobert is an afterthought. He's consistently mentioned among the best centers in the world and I think everyone believes that he is and has been a top 5 center for the past few seasons. I also don't think that any or at least many GMs would prefer to have Gobert over Towns. Gobert is obviously the better defender but they grab the same amount of boards, Gobert blocks an extra half a shot per game. That just doesn't make up for the 9ppg while shooting 41% from 3 as a big compared to 0 and an extra 20% at the line. Can run an offense through Towns, can run a defense through Gobert. Offense always wins in that argument. I love watching Gobert and think he's great. Just think that the's the #4 Center this year with 3 spots.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If a guy like Gobert is going to make the All-NBA over a guy with the stats of Towns, it's because the advanced metrics point to Gobert as being more impactful even if his stats aren't as impressive. This year, though, that's not the case. On top of the usual counting stats being tilted in Towns' favor, the off/on court splits, BPM, and VORP all go in favor of Towns.

Gobert is still obviously a huge defensive force and an amazing rebounder, but unlike past years, Towns has finally been good defensively while also being a freakazoid offensively. Towns has been good enough defensively this year that the gap in their offensive production significantly outweighs the gap in defense.

I think the three center spots on All-NBA teams are easy decisions this year (in terms of the who the 3 are; the question is Embiid vs. Jokic for first team

And nowhere in that post, which was really good, reasonable, and well researched, was the disparity between winning/game results addressed.

KAT has stats. They're empty. Why reward it?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't think that anyone in the world thinks that Gobert is an afterthought. He's consistently mentioned among the best centers in the world and I think everyone believes that he is and has been a top 5 center for the past few seasons. I also don't think that any or at least many GMs would prefer to have Gobert over Towns. Gobert is obviously the better defender but they grab the same amount of boards, Gobert blocks an extra half a shot per game. That just doesn't make up for the 9ppg while shooting 41% from 3 as a big compared to 0 and an extra 20% at the line. Can run an offense through Towns, can run a defense through Gobert. Offense always wins in that argument. I love watching Gobert and think he's great. Just think that the's the #4 Center this year with 3 spots.

Offense > winning

That's the argument for Towns.

 

[Melancer46]

And nowhere in that post, which was really good, reasonable, and well researched, was the disparity between winning/game results addressed.

KAT has stats. They're empty. Why reward it?

They aren't empty though. That's what the on/off court splits show. We're not talking about a guy like Demar DeRozan, who puts up numbers but the Spurs lose while he's on the floor and then swing the game in their favor while he's on the bench. There's a 5.4 point difference per 100 possessions when KAT is on the floor versus when he's not compared to a 2.5 point difference for Gobert (and for anyone interested, that number is -8.5 points for DeRozan). KAT has the numbers edge, and the metrics also suggest that he's impacting games more than Gobert in addition to that.

 

[chugg21]

Offense > winning

That's the argument for Towns.

The playoffs are to reward winning, that's why they have them. Awards are to reward individual players.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

They aren't empty though. That's what the on/off court splits show. We're not talking about a guy like Demar DeRozan, who puts up numbers but the Spurs lose while he's on the floor and then swing the game in their favor while he's on the bench. There's a 5.4 point difference per 100 possessions when KAT is on the floor versus when he's not compared to a 2.5 point difference for Gobert (and for anyone interested, that number is -8.5 points for DeRozan). KAT has the numbers edge, and the metrics also suggest that he's impacting games more than Gobert in addition to that.

But when the buzzer sounds, he's lost.

 

[Melancer46]

But when the buzzer sounds, he's lost.

His team has lost; it's a team game. The All-NBA teams are not.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

His team has lost; it's a team game. The All-NBA teams are not.

Meh.

 

[MikeSU02]

IMO, I think they should drop center from all nba and just go frontcourt / backcourt.

All NBA should be as close to the top 15 players in the league that year.

 

[Knicks411]

IMO, I think they should drop center from all nba and just go frontcourt / backcourt.

All NBA should be as close to the top 15 players in the league that year.

Centers have made something of a resurgence at least. But no reason it can be like AS

 

[OrangeDW]

This Jordan Bell charging hotel items to Mike Brown’s room story...smh.

 

[moqui]

thomas bryant has really come into his own in washington

not to rub it in, lakers fans, but you could have had a long term center duo of bryant and zubac

 

[OttoinGrotto]

thomas bryant has really come into his own in washington

not to rub it in, lakers fans, but you could have had a long term center duo of bryant and zubac

LeBron ain't got time for that.

 

[Melancer46]

thomas bryant has really come into his own in washington

not to rub it in, lakers fans, but you could have had a long term center duo of bryant and zubac

Bill Simmons was telling the story he heard about how the Zubac trade happened. He said the Lakers called the Clippers and were like "Hey, would you guys send us Mike Muscala for Zubac?"

and then the Clippers basically muted their phone to do a happy dance and said "ummm, sure!"

 

[chugg21]

Bill Simmons was telling the story he heard about how the Zubac trade happened. He said the Lakers called the Clippers and were like "Hey, would you guys send us Mike Muscala for Zubac?"

and then the Clippers basically muted their phone to do a happy dance and said "ummm, sure!"

Saw that in the McMenamin story today too. Hilarious. It's like when a fantasy football trade shows up that is too good to be true and you contemplate sending over a counter to squeeze just a bit more on top but then realize that you're an idiot and need to just accept it as fast as possible before someone else does.

 

[OrangeDW]

thomas bryant has really come into his own in washington

not to rub it in, lakers fans, but you could have had a long term center duo of bryant and zubac