NBA Playoffs

[RF2044]

So what does he need then? I mean c'mon, the dudes supposed to be all-time great. Now we have to pretend his supporting cast of Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, JR Smith, Tristan Thompson (all guys he wanted) are trash?

Assuming GSW, OKC and SAS stay themselves for the next 3-4 years. What does Lebron need to win a ring?

He'll never win another ring.

People need to start getting used to that notion.

 

[Knicks411]

I just don't understand how professional sports people who follow the NBA regularly could feel that the Cavs had a legit shot in the finals before the playoffs or at any time during them. My thoughts were always more along the line of how many games could they push the series to 5 or 6 and who their opponent would be. Just watching the east and west playoffs it was glaringly obvious that the level of play was very different.

Because they lost in 6 last year without Love and Kyrie, without remembering that A) the warriors went small later in the series and the cavs couldn't touch them, and B) I'm not sure how much of a positive Love is to them against the Warriors.

C'mon...

You are technically right--the series isn't over, but it will be soon.

I give the Cavs a game in Cleveland, and the Warriors wrap it up at home in game 5.

 

[Knicks411]

He'll never win another ring.

People need to start getting used to that notion.

He's still so good that if you set the over under at titles for the rest of his career at 0.5, I'd take the over. 1.5 I would take the under. But 0 titles wouldn't totally surprise me. He's not the player he once was for sure. This Cavs team is really good. It's just that the Warriors are an all time team.

I was curious; Magic won his last title at age 28. Bird was 29. Kobe was 31. Shaq was 29 when the Lakers stopped winning titles, but he was 34 when he won in Miami, as more of a 1a type guy. Hakeem was 31 in 1994. Duncan had just turned 31 in 2007, he won in 2014 but he definitely wasn't the lead dog on that team.

Obviously I cherry picked a little, Jordan, Kareem, Russell all won titles later in their careers. Me taking the over on 0.5 is more that he's still a great great player and should have 3 or 4 more deep playoff runs, and you never know and less that he's so great it's just inevitable he's going to win another one. (Though yes he has a ton of miles on his legs) I'd bet his team never enters the season as the #1 favorite to win the title though.

 

[RF2044]

He's still so good that if you set the over under at titles for the rest of his career at 0.5, I'd take the over. 1.5 I would take the under. But 0 titles wouldn't totally surprise me. He's not the player he once was for sure. This Cavs team is really good. It's just that the Warriors are an all time team.

I'd take that bet. He's getting older, and has a lot if extra mileage on the tires from numerous deep playoff runs and international ball in the summer.

His window is closing--it isn't closed, but it's getting more narrow each passing year. His age clock is ticking, and meanwhile there are several WC teams that don't show any signs of slowing down.

If Lebron doesn't win this year, his chances of ever winning one begin to go way down with each passing year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'd take that bet. He's getting older, and has a lot if extra mileage on the tires from numerous deep playoff runs and international ball in the summer.

His window us clisung-&ut isn't closed, but it's getting more narrow each passing year. His age clock is ticking, and meanwhile there are several WC teams that don't show any signs of slowing down.

If Lebron doesn't win this year, his chances of ever winning one oragmatucally begin to go way down with each passing year.

Whoa, leave the orangutans out of this, man.

 

[longislandcuse]

Anyone think Melo somehow ends up in Cleveland?

SAS beating that drum all morning.

I personally think getting a guy like Melo is the only chance Lebron has to take down the Western Conference.

 

[Knicks411]

Anyone think Melo somehow ends up in Cleveland?

SAS beating that drum all morning.

I personally think getting a guy like Melo is the only chance Lebron has to take down the Western Conference.

What would that trade look like? I just checked the trade machine; Love for Melo straight up works. I'm not saying that's the trade, the Knicks should get more coming back, but at least it works financially.

 

[longislandcuse]

What would that trade look like? I just checked the trade machine; Love for Melo straight up works. I'm not saying that's the trade, the Knicks should get more coming back, but at least it works financially.

Yea, I know Knicks fans are open to a trade for Melo because the team is just so far away, especially with Phil not caring about anything anymore, but Love for Melo straight up would cause a riot.

I can't imagine the plan is to have super friends part 2 in Cleveland though. Maybe Lebron goes to Miami and do the Heat have any pieces for Melo?

 

[Knicks411]

Yea, I know Knicks fans are open to a trade for Melo because the team is just so far away, especially with Phil not caring about anything anymore, but Love for Melo straight up would cause a riot.

I can't imagine the plan is to have super friends part 2 in Cleveland though. Maybe Lebron goes to Miami and do the Heat have any pieces for Melo?

Cleveland also doesn't really have any young pieces they could send back. Something based around Kyrie for Melo might be more palatable? My dream is still Melo going to the Clippers for Blake.

 

[longislandcuse]

Cleveland also doesn't really have any young pieces they could send back. Something based around Kyrie for Melo might be more palatable? My dream is still Melo going to the Clippers for Blake.

Kyrie defense is so trash and if you're PG isn't able to cover anyone, you'll never have a good defense BUT he's young and his offense is elite. I'd take that trade. Matching up two young pieces in Kyrie and Porzingis. P n R for days.

If Cleveland stays getting smoked I'd have to imagine Cle would be open to that trade if Lebron decrees.

 

[Knicks411]

Kyrie defense is so trash and if you're PG isn't able to cover anyone, you'll never have a good defense BUT he's young and his offense is elite. I'd take that trade. Matching up two young pieces in Kyrie and Porzingis. P n R for days.

If Cleveland stays getting smoked I'd have to imagine Cle would be open to that trade if Lebron decrees.

Yeah, Kyrie is a few years younger than Love, so his timeline matches up better with KP. The only thing from the Cle POV is that they have a number of guys whose best position at this point is PF; Lebron, Thompson, Love; maybe even Frye as well. (Off the top of my head I don't know Frye's contract status). Melo's best position at this point is probably the 4 also. Certainly they'd play Melo and Bron together at the 3/4, but then are you playing Love considerable minutes at the 5?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Melo replacing Love or Kyrie still isn't enough.

 

[Alsacs]

I wonder how much longer Lebron will be a top 3 player.

The dude has played 100 games 6 years in a row.

Also I got really anger at James Jones and Timofy Mozgov body checking Steph Curry right before he got taken out last night. If that was Lebron would have flipped out if he got those hard fouls.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I wonder how much longer Lebron will be a top 3 player.

The dude has played 100 games 6 years in a row.

Also I got really anger at James Jones and Timofy Mozgov body checking Steph Curry right before he got taken out last night. If that was Lebron would have flipped out if he got those hard fouls.

Teams need an edge to keep things at bay when they have targets on their back.

But yeah, that was just chippy and unnecessary.

 

[Melancer46]

Some of us never thought it was a good supporting cast to begin with. I have not thought LeBron has a chance to win a ring with the roster in Cleveland since he has been there. I don't think Curry wins with that roster either. Look at how much more multidimensional the Warriors roster is than the Cavs. That is the really big issue, the Cavs can keep switching guys but they are always at a disadvantage on one end or the other because they have so many one way players and very few players who can create offense for themselves and others regularly.

I do think that the way the Cavs have struggled so much to incorporate players' skillsets (ex: 2+ years now of struggling to find a role for Love, struggling to find a role for Shumpert, etc. sells their talent level short a bit. On paper, you have 2 or 3 dynamite scorers in Lebron, Kyrie, and Love, and then a blend of what should be good role players (Delly, JR, Shump, Thompson, Mozgov, etc.) I feel like Cleveland should be better than they are. Still not good enough to beat Golden State, but Cleveland just can't seem to click.

 

[Melancer46]

What would that trade look like? I just checked the trade machine; Love for Melo straight up works. I'm not saying that's the trade, the Knicks should get more coming back, but at least it works financially.

Honestly, I'd be pretty shocked if you got more than Love in a Melo trade at this point. An efficient 18 and 11 per 36 minutes and 27 or 28 years old probably has more value than a 31/32 year old giving you a less efficient 22 and 8 per 36, especially factoring in Melo's ability to decline the trade.

I'd guess it would have to be a 3 team trade, but if the Knicks could get Love for Melo straight up and Melo actually agreed to it, New York would be foolish not to take it IMO.

Edit: And there's absolutely no way you're getting Blake for Melo at this point.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Honestly, I'd be pretty shocked if you got more than Love in a Melo trade at this point. An efficient 18 and 11 per 36 minutes and 27 or 28 years old probably has more value than a 31/32 year old giving you a less efficient 22 and 8 per 36, especially factoring in Melo's ability to decline the trade.

I'd guess it would have to be a 3 team trade, but if the Knicks could get Love for Melo straight up and Melo actually agreed to it, New York would be foolish not to take it IMO.

Edit: And there's absolutely no way you're getting Blake for Melo at this point.

Melo has been more efficient than K. Love the last two years.

 

[Melancer46]

Melo has been more efficient than K. Love the last two years.

2014:
Melo: 53.1% TS%, 48.2% eFG%
Love: 56.2% TS%, 50.9% eFG%

2015:
Melo: 53% and 47.4%
Love: 55.3% and 49.9%

Edit: The only season that Love has ever had that was under 53% TS% was the year he played 18 games.

 

[Cusefan0307]

2014:
Melo: 53.1% TS%, 48.2% eFG%
Love: 56.2% TS%, 50.9% eFG%

2015:
Melo: 53% and 47.4%
Love: 55.3% and 49.9%

I was comparing PER, which shows Melo does more than just score.

 

[Knicks411]

I was comparing PER, which shows Melo does more than just score.

PER also heavily weights usage, and Melo has a really high usage rate. On Blake/Melo; that's why I called it a dream.

Love has a decent amount of flaws that have become evident; he's really not a good defender. The age thing works in his favor in regards to a trade with Melo, but if the Warriors continue to handle Cle (which I expect) i could see it getting to the point where they move on from Love.

 

[kirbivore]

So what does he need then? I mean c'mon, the dudes supposed to be all-time great. Now we have to pretend his supporting cast of Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, JR Smith, Tristan Thompson (all guys he wanted) are trash?

Assuming GSW, OKC and SAS stay themselves for the next 3-4 years. What does Lebron need to win a ring?

I wish I could give this multiple likes.

 

[OrangeFoo]

So what does he need then? I mean c'mon, the dudes supposed to be all-time great. Now we have to pretend his supporting cast of Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, JR Smith, Tristan Thompson (all guys he wanted) are trash?

Assuming GSW, OKC and SAS stay themselves for the next 3-4 years. What does Lebron need to win a ring?

 

[Ward]

So what does he need then? I mean c'mon, the dudes supposed to be all-time great. Now we have to pretend his supporting cast of Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, JR Smith, Tristan Thompson (all guys he wanted) are trash?

Assuming GSW, OKC and SAS stay themselves for the next 3-4 years. What does Lebron need to win a ring?

Yea the supporting cast isn't trash by any means, but it also is fair to say that it isn't playing well enough to seriously challenge the Warriors through 2 games. I mean the list of guys you mentioned really haven't made much of an impact while the Warriors have had steady contributions across the board in both games. That supporting cast is great if all of them are playing well but when they aren't Games 1 and Games 2 happen.

Warriors are just the better team. They were the better team all season long and have been the better team the last 7 times they've played - 5 of which just happened to be NBA Finals games.

I will say that I think the LeBron hate by some clouds thinking and holds him to standards that aren't always rational. Like those who try using his 2-4 record in the Finals as a knock but don't acknowledge 3 of those 4 series losses came when his teams didn't really stand a chance. Or act like giving him a supporting cast that performs in the Finals that's comparable to other championship teams supporting cast is an unreasonable ask.

 

[Knicks411]

The Warriors might be the best team in the history of the game. There's no shame in losing to them.

 

[OrangeFoo]

The Warriors might be the best team in the history of the game. There's no shame in losing to them.

These guys say "hi!"