NBA Thread 2019-20 Season

[Knicks411]

Isn’t Duncan technically a foreign born player or am I misremembering? At any rate seems like Giannis is probably destined to be in that discussion too.

He was born on the Virgin Islands and he played for Team USA, so to me, he wouldn't count.

And yes, I would say Giannis is obviously in the conversation. I was having a convo with a few friends on something somewhat related to this; it doesn't seem like we are too far off from the two best players in the world being foreign born between Luka and Giannis. Pretty crazy to think about that. Giannis right now is obviously at worst one of the 2 best players, and Luka isn't there yet, but is it crazy to think he will be in the next year or so?

 

[Alsacs]

He was born on the Virgin Islands and he played for Team USA, so to me, he wouldn't count.

And yes, I would say Giannis is obviously in the conversation. I was having a convo with a few friends on something somewhat related to this; it doesn't seem like we are too far off from the two best players in the world being foreign born between Luka and Giannis. Pretty crazy to think about that. Giannis right now is obviously at worst one of the 2 best players, and Luka isn't there yet, but is it crazy to think he will be in the next year or so?

Hakeem was born in Nigeria but he became a naturalized citizen and he played on the 1996 Olympic team.
I would say the best foreign born alltime players are Hakeem and Dirk.
Hakeem was the best player in 1994 post Jordan. 95 David Robinson got the MVP but Hakeem smoked him.

Giannis is on his way to passing Dirk but still has ways to catch Hakeem.

Duncan was born in the US Virgin Islands but you don’t need a passport to go there so I would consider that basically like Puerto Rico or Guam a US territory.

 

[Knicks411]

Hakeem was born in Nigeria but he became a naturalized citizen and he played on the 1996 Olympic team.
I would say the best foreign born alltime players are Hakeem and Dirk.
Hakeem was the best player in 1994 post Jordan. 95 David Robinson got the MVP but Hakeem smoked him.

Giannis is on his way to passing Dirk but still has ways to catch Hakeem.

Duncan was born in the US Virgin Islands but you don’t need a passport to go there so I would consider that basically like Puerto Rico or Guam a US territory.

Agree right now Dirk and Hakeem are the two best foreign players ever. I think Giannis will end up in the top 2 before all is said and done.

One thing I'm really curious about is if Sabonis came over to the NBA when he was drafted. He was drafted in 86, didn't come over till 1995. Would he have been the best center in the NBA in that late 80s period? Maybe not the best, but would have to be up there, right? Put him on those Blazers teams; they made the finals already twice in 90 and 92, I could see them challenging the Lakers in the late 80s period as well.

 

[Newhouser]

Might be the only rational explanation for why Reggie Jackson was on Doncic for that last shot.

Carlisle vs Doc is a pretty big advantage for the Mavs in this series.

 

[MikeSU02]

I know this has been thrown out a lot, but I really don't see them as that similar at all really.

Luka is a lead ball handler and, to this point at least, is really kind of a meh outside shooter. hes like 32% career from 3, granted he takes a ton of tough ones (as we saw at the end of the game).

Hes more Magic than Bird to me.

I'm really surprised Magic isn't the consensus and while that is very high praise, the kid is going be all-nba as a 21 years old and is likely the most untradeable person in the league (him or Giannis).

He has the vision, great change of pace, crafty near the rim, huge size for a lead ball handler, ok shooter and clutch as all get out.

He's not nearly as athletic as Bron (neither was Magic, and basically there are only a handful of people that are). Harden is probably his best comp for active players, but I think Magic is a little more close to the bullseye with this. Harden, imo, is a more natural scorer and better shoot than Luka.

Dallas needs to get two legit wing defenders / shooters (I know every team does) to shore up the defense and give Luka more weapons, but they could be looking at a massive jump next year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm really surprised Magic isn't the consensus and while that is very high praise, the kid is going be all-nba as a 21 years old and is likely the most untradeable person in the league (him or Giannis).

He has the vision, great change of pace, crafty near the rim, huge size for a lead ball handler, ok shooter and clutch as all get out.

He's not nearly as athletic as Bron (neither was Magic, and basically there are only a handful of people that are). Harden is probably his best comp for active players, but I think Magic is a little more close to the bullseye with this. Harden, imo, is a more natural scorer and better shoot than Luka.

Dallas needs to get two legit wing defenders / shooters (I know every team does) to shore up the defense and give Luka more weapons, but they could be looking at a massive jump next year.

Looks like they'll have some financial flexibility the next two seasons, potentially. Kinda hilarious that they have $13M in Courtney Lee coming off the books at the end of this season. NBA contracts are a riot.

 

[Alsacs]

Agree right now Dirk and Hakeem are the two best foreign players ever. I think Giannis will end up in the top 2 before all is said and done.

One thing I'm really curious about is if Sabonis came over to the NBA when he was drafted. He was drafted in 86, didn't come over till 1995. Would he have been the best center in the NBA in that late 80s period? Maybe not the best, but would have to be up there, right? Put him on those Blazers teams; they made the finals already twice in 90 and 92, I could see them challenging the Lakers in the late 80s period as well.

Sabonis owned David Robinson in the 1988 Olympics and that was pre-concrete feet Sabonis.

If he comes over after that Olympics I don’t know if the 1990 Blazers beat Detroit but the 1991 Blazers likely beat the Lakers and you are looking at 3 straight finals appearances.

Jordan kinda ruined that team after 1992 Finals beating he put on Drexler and took the Blazers down a notch. Till they got Wallace.

 

[Alsacs]

Looks like they'll have some financial flexibility the next two seasons, potentially. Kinda hilarious that they have $13M in Courtney Lee coming off the books at the end of this season. NBA contracts are a riot.

Bobby Marks ESPN’s cap guy said the Mavs will have a FA max slot available before Luka can sign an extension in 2022.
Dallas is going to get another stud. FAs will go there.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Bobby Marks ESPN’s cap guy said the Mavs will have a FA max slot available before Luka can sign an extension in 2022.
Dallas is going to get another stud. FAs will go there.

It would make sense. For some reason the Mavericks have kinda struggled landing FAs in the past.

They're offering a little something different now though.

 

[MikeSU02]

Bobby Marks ESPN’s cap guy said the Mavs will have a FA max slot available before Luka can sign an extension in 2022.
Dallas is going to get another stud. FAs will go there.

He wouldn't be available, but someone like Jaylen Brown would be perfect for them.

 

[Knicks411]

Sabonis owned David Robinson in the 1988 Olympics and that was pre-concrete feet Sabonis.

If he comes over after that Olympics I don’t know if the 1990 Blazers beat Detroit but the 1991 Blazers likely beat the Lakers and you are looking at 3 straight finals appearances.

Jordan kinda ruined that team after 1992 Finals beating he put on Drexler and took the Blazers down a notch. Till they got Wallace.

And you even go back a few years, in 88 they won 53 games. They were good, if you add a potential AS center like Sabonis to that roster, I'm not saying they for sure beat the Lakers or anything, but it's at least in play I think.

 

[Alsacs]

He wouldn't be available, but someone like Jaylen Brown would be perfect for them.

Marcus Smart for the German Big could be a trade for both teams.
Mavs need a defensive guard to protect Luka and Celtics need a big.

 

[OrangeDW]

And you even go back a few years, in 88 they won 53 games. They were good, if you add a potential AS center like Sabonis to that roster, I'm not saying they for sure beat the Lakers or anything, but it's at least in play I think.

Gotta point out that Kevin Duckworth was an all star in 89 and 91.

Obviously his career faded quick and he wasn’t Sabonis. But it’s not like Portland did all that with a scrub at center.

 

[Melancer46]

I'm really surprised Magic isn't the consensus and while that is very high praise, the kid is going be all-nba as a 21 years old and is likely the most untradeable person in the league (him or Giannis).

He has the vision, great change of pace, crafty near the rim, huge size for a lead ball handler, ok shooter and clutch as all get out.

He's not nearly as athletic as Bron (neither was Magic, and basically there are only a handful of people that are). Harden is probably his best comp for active players, but I think Magic is a little more close to the bullseye with this. Harden, imo, is a more natural scorer and better shoot than Luka.

Dallas needs to get two legit wing defenders / shooters (I know every team does) to shore up the defense and give Luka more weapons, but they could be looking at a massive jump next year.

Major difference is:

1. Luka just has way more of a scorer's mentality than Magic. Magic could score but Luka is a legitimate threat to lead the NBA in scoring.
2. Obviously different eras but Magic was pretty much exclusively getting his points at the rim whereas almost half of Luka's shot attempts are 3 pointers.

If he can only be compared to one player, I think Harden makes the most sense, though he has a better sense for methodically probing the defense on his drives than Harden does and I think he sees things a bit better (though Harden is great in that regard too). And on the flipside, Harden is currently the better shooter of the two.

 

[Alsacs]

And you even go back a few years, in 88 they won 53 games. They were good, if you add a potential AS center like Sabonis to that roster, I'm not saying they for sure beat the Lakers or anything, but it's at least in play I think.

I think after 1987 those Lakers teams were vulnerable.
1988 stole a title from the Pistons(I hate Laimbeer but the foul they called on him in the last 5 second on the Kareem skyhook in game 6 after what Isiah Thomas had done coming back from the injury stole a title from Detroit) and they were taken to 7 games in the west by a mediocre Dallas Mavs team and 7 games Mark Eaton/Karl Malone/John Stockton team.

The 1980s non Lakers Western conference wasn’t deep like the eastern conference after Jordan retired.
Sabonis was a dominant center who was like a point center with how good a passer he was. He upps the ceiling of those Blazers teams.
I like the Lakers still win the West every season thru 1987 except 1986 if sabonis comes to Portland.
It’s 1988 to 1991 where he could have swung that conference.

 

[NateW]

These scores are jarring

I haven’t watched any of the games, cuz as a Knicks fan i just haven’t invested much time in the NBA for years now, but what’s up w these scores? Is anyone playing defense? Or has the NBA turned into AAU style ball?

Serious question... Not trying to hate, just looking to get perspective from ppl who seem to be interested in/like the NBA.

 

[Knicks411]

These scores are jarring

I haven’t watched any of the games, cuz as a Knicks fan i just haven’t invested much time in the NBA for years now, but what’s up w these scores? Is anyone playing defense? Or has the NBA turned into AAU style ball?

Serious question... Not trying to hate, just looking to get perspective from ppl who seem to be interested in/like the NBA.

The shot making is unreal now. And the pace is the fastest it's been since the late 80s.

Gotta point out that Kevin Duckworth was an all star in 89 and 91.

Obviously his career faded quick and he wasn’t Sabonis. But it’s not like Portland did all that with a scrub at center.

For sure no scrub. But I'm thinking Sabonis is like an all time type player, like one of the 50 or 60 best players ever. (And yes, i totally made up 50 or 60, don't mind me) I may be thinking too highly of him, to be fair.

I was just looking at the 89 west all stars, they took 4 centers! Hakeem, Kareem (an old Kareem), Mark Eaton, and Duckworth).

Major difference is:

1. Luka just has way more of a scorer's mentality than Magic. Magic could score but Luka is a legitimate threat to lead the NBA in scoring.
2. Obviously different eras but Magic was pretty much exclusively getting his points at the rim whereas almost half of Luka's shot attempts are 3 pointers.

If he can only be compared to one player, I think Harden makes the most sense, though he has a better sense for methodically probing the defense on his drives than Harden does and I think he sees things a bit better (though Harden is great in that regard too). And on the flipside, Harden is currently the better shooter of the two.

Also speaks to his greatness that it's so hard to find a comp for him. I don't think that is the defining characteristic of a great player, but it's up there.

Another thought i had is that the proliferation of the 3 makes it hard to compare guys today to players from relaly any point prior to like 2000 even; to your point about Luka taking so many shots from 3. I dont think anyone really thinks of him as a 3 point shooter, but he takes so many more relative to a guy like Magic, or Jordan, or Bird, or whoever.

 

[MikeSU02]

Major difference is:

1. Luka just has way more of a scorer's mentality than Magic. Magic could score but Luka is a legitimate threat to lead the NBA in scoring.
2. Obviously different eras but Magic was pretty much exclusively getting his points at the rim whereas almost half of Luka's shot attempts are 3 pointers.

If he can only be compared to one player, I think Harden makes the most sense, though he has a better sense for methodically probing the defense on his drives than Harden does and I think he sees things a bit better (though Harden is great in that regard too). And on the flipside, Harden is currently the better shooter of the two.

Question, truly - not trying to "get ya" with this - If you think they swapped eras, do you think Magic would have a more score-first mentality (like when he had to step in for Kareem) and Luka would be ok with pass first, especially if you kept the same rosters (ie - Luka had Kareem, James, etc)?

 

[OrangeDW]

These scores are jarring

I haven’t watched any of the games, cuz as a Knicks fan i just haven’t invested much time in the NBA for years now, but what’s up w these scores? Is anyone playing defense? Or has the NBA turned into AAU style ball?

Serious question... Not trying to hate, just looking to get perspective from ppl who seem to be interested in/like the NBA.

It’s flat out hard to get stops now...every team has a ton of shooters and the lane is wide open. You get one guy that’s hard to check off the dribble, or someone who’s great in pick and roll and your team becomes almost impossible to defend because any help just leads to a buried 3.

 

[jncuse]

These scores are jarring

I haven’t watched any of the games, cuz as a Knicks fan i just haven’t invested much time in the NBA for years now, but what’s up w these scores? Is anyone playing defense? Or has the NBA turned into AAU style ball?

Serious question... Not trying to hate, just looking to get perspective from ppl who seem to be interested in/like the NBA.

3 Ball can be shot by so many increasing efficiency, and they will shoot earlier in the clock increasing pace.

So many players can shoot the 3 now that the floor is so extended (which opens up the middle for drives and dishes) and makes high screens / pick action very hard to defend.

Its not that the defenses are not trying, they are just in a much harder position than they have ever been to effectively defend. There are still great defensive teams out there like the Bucks, Raps and Lakers.

The only way to reduce this scoring surge will be some sort of change in the rules.

 

[Alsacs]

3 Ball can be shot by so many increasing efficiency, and they will shoot earlier in the clock increasing pace.

So many players can shoot the 3 now that the floor is so extended (which opens up the middle for drives and dishes) and makes high screens / pick action very hard to defend.

Its not that the defenses are not trying, they are just in a much harder position than they have ever been to effectively defend. There are still great defensive teams out there like the Bucks, Raps and Lakers.

The only way to reduce this scoring surge will be some sort of change in the rules.

The only way to reduce scoring would be to have less possessions per game.
Offensive rebounds only put the shot clock back to 14 instead of 24.
NBA has increased possessions per game.

Those mid 2000 seasons the game was played at snails pace. NBA has got the game playing like the 1980s but teams are smart now and don’t get stuck playing primarily inside the paint.

 

[shandeezy7]

These scores are jarring

I haven’t watched any of the games, cuz as a Knicks fan i just haven’t invested much time in the NBA for years now, but what’s up w these scores? Is anyone playing defense? Or has the NBA turned into AAU style ball?

Serious question... Not trying to hate, just looking to get perspective from ppl who seem to be interested in/like the NBA.

The article is from March, but still applicable:

Why NBA Game Pace Is Historicically High

Early trends in an NBA season are often overblown as most things tend to even out over time, but there are some things which come along and are more than just

www.lineups.com

 

[Knicks411]

3 Ball can be shot by so many increasing efficiency, and they will shoot earlier in the clock increasing pace.

So many players can shoot the 3 now that the floor is so extended (which opens up the middle for drives and dishes) and makes high screens / pick action very hard to defend.

Its not that the defenses are not trying, they are just in a much harder position than they have ever been to effectively defend. There are still great defensive teams out there like the Bucks, Raps and Lakers.

The only way to reduce this scoring surge will be some sort of change in the rules.

The fact that nearly everyone can shoot the 3 jut changes everything. Like you said, the court is so wide open. You watch some 80s and 90s games and its just absurd how crowded the court is. Everyone is within 20 feet of the bucket

 

[Melancer46]

Question, truly - not trying to "get ya" with this - If you think they swapped eras, do you think Magic would have a more score-first mentality (like when he had to step in for Kareem) and Luka would be ok with pass first, especially if you kept the same rosters (ie - Luka had Kareem, James, etc)?

I tend to think no, but not really sure. I think the Harden comp fits better regardless though. Their games are extremely similar IMO.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think if Magic had played in this era there's no doubt he would have scored more. He would have learned how to shoot three's as well. It wasn't like he was a terrible shooter. He did shoot 85% from the line and averaged over 20 four times. 3 of those seasons were after Kareem's prime.