NBA Thread 2020-21 Season

[Knicks411]

I don’t have a problem with what he said and think his bigger point is spot on that there’s a double standard in how teams can treat players relative to how players must act or else they get vilified.

It’s not new but teams can be incredibly callous towards players and it’s “hey, this is a business”. Players do what’s the best business decision for them in their career and it’s “he’s selfish, the league is in trouble”. I don’t see the issue with saying let’s decide what the standard is and then have both sides follow it.

Yeah I kinda think Draymond has a point. Understood it's not a perfect comparison with Harden and Blake or Drummond, but I do sympathize with his point a little.

Totally agree on the second point. Fans have no real connections to ownership and front office like they do to players, so it's easy to personalize and villianize a player but consider it "business" when it's done by more on an entity than a person.

Weren't teams going to be fined if they didn't play guys for rest purposes? I guess it's ok if you dont play a guy for other reasons?

 

[Melancer46]

I don’t have a problem with what he said and think his bigger point is spot on that there’s a double standard in how teams can treat players relative to how players must act or else they get vilified.

It’s not new but teams can be incredibly callous towards players and it’s “hey, this is a business”. Players do what’s the best business decision for them in their career and it’s “he’s selfish, the league is in trouble”. I don’t see the issue with saying let’s decide what the standard is and then have both sides follow it.

Yeah, I would tend to agree with Alsacs that teams aren't really doing anything wrong by sitting guys that they want to trade and stuff, but I also agree with the "this is a business" point. Players get killed for treating it like it's a business while teams are encouraged to.

I also get the difference between Davis personally saying he wanted a trade (and thus getting fined) vs. teams pushing a trade rumor through the media and not being fined, but it makes me roll my eyes nonetheless when it happens. I guess Cleveland doesn't get fined because they got someone else to let everyone know they're trading Drummond rather than them announcing it themselves but it's just stupid.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Yeah I kinda think Draymond has a point. Understood it's not a perfect comparison with Harden and Blake or Drummond, but I do sympathize with his point a little.

Totally agree on the second point. Fans have no real connections to ownership and front office like they do to players, so it's easy to personalize and villianize a player but consider it "business" when it's done by more on an entity than a person.

Weren't teams going to be fined if they didn't play guys for rest purposes? I guess it's ok if you dont play a guy for other reasons?

Screw Draymond. Wouldn't you rather talk Julius Randle. 44 points. Not easy in any league. Not sure what his contract situation is but he is having a good season.

 

[Eric15]

Utah started 5-4 and are now 23-5. This looks like clearly their best team since 1997-98. Jordan Clarkson scored 40 points off the bench in 29 minutes last night.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Utah started 5-4 and are now 23-5. This looks like clearly their best team since 1997-98. Jordan Clarkson scored 40 points off the bench in 29 minutes last night.

They've been winning without Conley, too. Mitchell was out for a couple games during the winning streak. They're playing really good basketball.

 

[Knicks411]

Screw Draymond. Wouldn't you rather talk Julius Randle. 44 points. Not easy in any league. Not sure what his contract situation is but he is having a good season.

They have an option on Randle for next year at right around $20 million. hes been awesome this year

 

[KaiserUEO]

Utah started 5-4 and are now 23-5. This looks like clearly their best team since 1997-98. Jordan Clarkson scored 40 points off the bench in 29 minutes last night.

that is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Horn88]

Yeah I kinda think Draymond has a point. Understood it's not a perfect comparison with Harden and Blake or Drummond, but I do sympathize with his point a little.

Totally agree on the second point. Fans have no real connections to ownership and front office like they do to players, so it's easy to personalize and villianize a player but consider it "business" when it's done by more on an entity than a person.

Weren't teams going to be fined if they didn't play guys for rest purposes? I guess it's ok if you dont play a guy for other reasons?

Yeah, I would tend to agree with Alsacs that teams aren't really doing anything wrong by sitting guys that they want to trade and stuff, but I also agree with the "this is a business" point. Players get killed for treating it like it's a business while teams are encouraged to.

I also get the difference between Davis personally saying he wanted a trade (and thus getting fined) vs. teams pushing a trade rumor through the media and not being fined, but it makes me roll my eyes nonetheless when it happens. I guess Cleveland doesn't get fined because they got someone else to let everyone know they're trading Drummond rather than them announcing it themselves but it's just stupid.

I agree with pretty much everything you guys are saying.

Teams like to switch up using fan emotion as either a sword or shield depending on their agenda. It’s difficult for me to have much sympathy for teams when AD or Harden say they want out when you see things like Blake and the Clippers or IT and the Celtics. My view is it’s a business and all parties can operate like a business or it isn’t and that was kinda what I took from Draymond’s words.

What I do think is funny is how the owners changed the schedule for an extension on rookie deals to max deals or whatever it was to try and get more power over their stars and it completely backfired with guys using it as a way to grab control from teams.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Would love to see a team like Utah come out of the west, but I worry they are a bit like that Hawks team from 5 or 6 years ago and end up getting locked down once they get in the playoffs.

 

[Knicks411]

I agree with pretty much everything you guys are saying.

Teams like to switch up using fan emotion as either a sword or shield depending on their agenda. It’s difficult for me to have much sympathy for teams when AD or Harden say they want out when you see things like Blake and the Clippers or IT and the Celtics. My view is it’s a business and all parties can operate like a business or it isn’t and that was kinda what I took from Draymond’s words.

What I do think is funny is how the owners changed the schedule for an extension on rookie deals to max deals or whatever it was to try and get more power over their stars and it completely backfired with guys using it as a way to grab control from teams.

The obvious counterpoint to our case is the Cavs (or Pistons, or whoever) are still paying Drummond or Blake even if they send them home while they try and work something out. And Harden getting out of shape and not giving his absolute best effort is not exactly a great look for him. But i do think its pretty clear the average fan (whatever that means) has a lot more tolerance for a team treating things like a business than a player

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Utah started 5-4 and are now 23-5. This looks like clearly their best team since 1997-98. Jordan Clarkson scored 40 points off the bench in 29 minutes last night.

Even though Simmons had 42 and Harris had like 36, Clarkson put on a show. He has ice in his veins. Easily 6th man of the year. And Lindsey should be exec of the year for fleecing the Cavs last year to get him for Dante Exum, and then signing him for a sweetheart deal. Jazz are so deep it's so delicious to watch. Two big ones this week in LA vs the Paper Clips.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Would love to see a team like Utah come out of the west, but I worry they are a bit like that Hawks team from 5 or 6 years ago and end up getting locked down once they get in the playoffs.

A lot of talent that can go off for 20 on a moment's notice: Spida, Rudy, Conley, Clarkson, Bojan, Jingles and then your others are O'Neale, Favors and Niang. That's nine guys. No one goes that deep.

 

[Cusefan0307]

A lot of talent that can go off for 20 on a moment's notice: Spida, Rudy, Conley, Clarkson, Bojan, Jingles and then your others are O'Neale, Favors and Niang. That's nine guys. No one goes that deep.

That is how that Hawks team was except they lacked a go to guy like Mitchell. I do think that if they had Bojan last year in the playoffs that there's a good chance they would have went to the WCF.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Would love to see a team like Utah come out of the west, but I worry they are a bit like that Hawks team from 5 or 6 years ago and end up getting locked down once they get in the playoffs.

It's fair to be skeptical about that, and I think the Hawks might be a good comparison. Mitchell making the leap would be the difference.

 

[Horn88]

The obvious counterpoint to our case is the Cavs (or Pistons, or whoever) are still paying Drummond or Blake even if they send them home while they try and work something out. And Harden getting out of shape and not giving his absolute best effort is not exactly a great look for him. But i do think its pretty clear the average fan (whatever that means) has a lot more tolerance for a team treating things like a business than a player

Yea Harden handled that about as poorly as he could but it worked so unfortunately I won’t be surprised if we see guys follow that playbook in the future.

Regarding Blake, I was surprised his current situation was mentioned by Draymond. I might be wrong but I thought Detroit was doing him a favor? One of those “we know you don’t have much basketball left so let’s try and get you in a situation where you’ll play games that matter instead of a rebuild.” And then it also helps Detroit play their young guys more.

 

[Eric15]

In the 1997-98 NBA season, 14 guys averaged more than 20 points per game.

This season there are 33 (34 if you round up Fred Van Vleet's 19.9).

 

[Ryand877]

 

[Knicks411]

In the 1997-98 NBA season, 14 guys averaged more than 20 points per game.

This season there are 33 (34 if you round up Fred Van Vleet's 19.9).

Lot of fun stats in this vein. I was listening to a podcast about the most influential teams in league history last week, and the #1 pick (which I agree with) was the seven seconds or less Suns. So I looked up their stats. Those Suns really revolutionized the game; they upped the pace, spread the floor, shot 3's, etc.

In 2005, they averaged 95.9 possessions per game (first in the league, 5.5% more than league average) and took 28.9% of their shots from 3, 47% higher than league average.

If you transported those stats into the league today, they would be second to last in pace (3.7% slower than league average) and last in 3 point rate (26.6% lower than league average). Just amazing.

It's insane, even from the 2014-15 season, pace has increased by 6.1% and 3 point rate by 47%

 

[cliftonparksufan]

In the 1997-98 NBA season, 14 guys averaged more than 20 points per game.

This season there are 33 (34 if you round up Fred Van Vleet's 19.9).

Last night six teams scored 112 points or more and lost. It's almost like MLB and the juiced ball. I don't think MBB has caught on yet even though the players would like to.

 

[Melancer46]

Utah started 5-4 and are now 23-5. This looks like clearly their best team since 1997-98. Jordan Clarkson scored 40 points off the bench in 29 minutes last night.

The Utah over on wins (41.5) is looking like some of the easiest money I'll ever make

 

[OrangeDW]

Lot of fun stats in this vein. I was listening to a podcast about the most influential teams in league history last week, and the #1 pick (which I agree with) was the seven seconds or less Suns. So I looked up their stats. Those Suns really revolutionized the game; they upped the pace, spread the floor, shot 3's, etc.

In 2005, they averaged 95.9 possessions per game (first in the league, 5.5% more than league average) and took 28.9% of their shots from 3, 47% higher than league average.

If you transported those stats into the league today, they would be second to last in pace (3.7% slower than league average) and last in 3 point rate (26.6% lower than league average). Just amazing.

It's insane, even from the 2014-15 season, pace has increased by 6.1% and 3 point rate by 47%

Gotta say, I don’t like where things are at.

League peaked around 2012-15 ish to me.

It’s been a decline since then, for me. There’s no balance.

 

[Knicks411]

Gotta say, I don’t like where things are at.

League peaked around 2012-15 ish to me.

It’s been a decline since then, for me. There’s no balance.

Come on, the Lakers won just a few months ago!

I dunno, i do take your point, but I'm really enjoying the game now.

 

[OrangeDW]

Come on, the Lakers won just a few months ago!

I dunno, i do take your point, but I'm really enjoying the game now.

Just in terms of style of play and being able to enjoy watching most games...those Spurs vs. Heat years, the young trio in OKC, the young Warriors on the rise...that was kinda the sweet spot for me.

Scoring and pace were up, things were opening up, but you could still lock down and get a stop, and it wasn’t just 5 guys around the arc taking turns trying to drive and kick, or launch. The stepbacks weren’t out of control.

These games are starting to resemble that one last pickup game that always sucks and causes me to leave the gym.

 

[MikeSU02]

Come on, the Lakers won just a few months ago!

I dunno, i do take your point, but I'm really enjoying the game now.

The big things in the range from 2012 - 2015 for me was basically two-fold:

Bron/Heatles and Spurs, especially the 2014 Spurs which hit Neo-when-he-realized-he-was-the-one level passing / beautiful basketball. Teams, still, cannot replicate that team.

Start of the Dubs / Curry ascendency to one of the top players in the league and fundamentally changing how shooting would ever be done.

The OKC stuff for me is a lot less interesting, tbh.

 

[Alsacs]

Just in terms of style of play and being able to enjoy watching most games...those Spurs vs. Heat years, the young trio in OKC, the young Warriors on the rise...that was kinda the sweet spot for me.

Scoring and pace were up, things were opening up, but you could still lock down and get a stop, and it wasn’t just 5 guys around the arc taking turns trying to drive and kick, or launch. The stepbacks weren’t out of control.

These games are starting to resemble that one last pickup game that always sucks and causes me to leave the gym.

I’ll say this outside of the Lakers I don’t see a team that plays defense every game.

The league is way more talented now that even a decade ago and shooting has become a necessity.

I really would love to see a player like Shaq or Patrick Ewing come up now and see how they could play in today’s NBA.

None of these guys today are like either of those guys when they entered the league.