NBA Thread 2020-21 Season

[OttoinGrotto]

Mark Stein said this on Twitter...
"The NBA is always more apt to investigate sign-and-trade deals that potentially jump the gun compared to straight free-agent signings because sign-and-trade deals require more cooperation among three or more parties and increase the possibility that wrongdoing can be proven. It is difficult to envision the NBA invalidating Miami's sign-and-trade deal for Kyle Lowry or Chicago's expected acquisition of Lonzo Ball, but the penalties for wrongdoing -- if proven -- would have to be much stiffer than what Milwaukee faced in the Bogdan Bogdanovic case. Milwaukee was only fined $50,000 and docked a future second-round pick in large part because the Bucks, remember, did not get Bogdanovic in the end. If impermissible contact is proven in this summer's cases, wrist slaps won't cut it. Players huddling like Russ, LeBron and AD did before the Laker/Wiz trade does not typically lead to NBA intervention because the league says it can’t police player-to-player discussion."

Bobby Mark's said this on Twitter...
"I don’t believe that the trades will get voided if the parties are guilty of wrongdoing. However, the penalties will definitely be more severe than what we saw last year with Milwaukee."

So... nothing happens to the agents?

 

[jordville]

So... nothing happens to the agents?

Good question. Probably not.

 

[Eric15]

Hypothetical: how would a 7 game series between the 2004 and 2021 Dream Teams (i.e. probably the two least talented squads, relatively speaking) play out?

 

[Alsacs]

Hypothetical: how would a 7 game series between the 2004 and 2021 Dream Teams (i.e. probably the two least talented squads, relatively speaking) play out?

View attachment 204171

Larry Brown didn’t play LeBron or Carmelo enough because he always played “his” guys.

2004
Can role out Wade-Iverson-LeBron-Odom-Duncan.
With Carmelo as the Tatum offense off the bench.
I think that team would win as long as Larry Brown wasn’t the coach.

 

[Day2]

Larry Brown didn’t play LeBron or Carmelo enough because he always played “his” guys.

2004
Can role out Wade-Iverson-LeBron-Odom-Duncan.
With Carmelo as the Tatum offense off the bench.
I think that team would win as long as Larry Brown wasn’t the coach.

Melo was better then LBJ in 2004. He deserved ROY and he was clearly Team USA’s best player during the exhibition games.

I understand the role you’re carving out for him. I just think he deserved to start and play starter’s minutes.

 

[Day2]

Narratives are funny. It took Leonard four days to re-sign with the Clippers. Apparently, this prolonged delay shows that Leonard is selfish and can’t be trusted.

NBA free agency started on November 20th last year. Anthony Davis didn’t re-sign with the Lakers until December 3rd.

 

[Day2]

Yes you are correct he could sign such an extension. I read a few more reports (see link below) and see where I had my error. That being said it still doesn't really change the negotiation parameters that are happening right now.

A few people reported in the past weeks that they were surprised he did not opt in as he was no longer eligible to sign a 4 year extension beyond that if he opted in. They then mentioned the 1+1 option to get the 5 year supermax extension next summer. My reading of this was by opting out he was no longer available for a long extension (that was my error).


Kawhi Leonard has a path to a $246 million contract, but this crucial offseason will decide if he ever gets there (From July 1)

"If Leonard opts out of his contract this summer and decides he wants to stay with the Clippers long-term, he could sign a four-year, $175 million contract, according to The Athletic's John Hollinger. Such a deal would be the eighth largest in the NBA in terms of total cash.

According to ESPN's Bobby Marks, Leonard could sign a four-year extension with the Clippers if he opts into his deal for 2021-22. That extension would be worth $181.5 million. When combined with his $36 million option for next season, it would be like signing a five-year, $217 million deal."



This however still makes for potentially tense negotiations with the exact same issues as my initial post above (can they reach a wink/wink 1+1, or can Kawhi sit out all year) If Kawhi was looking for security given his injury situation he would have just opted in and taken the extension which gives him 5 years of max money. Now all he can get is 4 years of max money. So I am fairly certain he has no interest in that 4 year contract entering this negotiation.

He is probably looking for the 1+1, with a "wink/wink" for the 5 year supermax extension next summer, where the average will be a fair amount higher.

And this is where his injury situation and trust issues with management (everywhere) come into play.
- Can he trust Ballmer will give him the supermax if he suffers another serious injury or does not recover greatly from this one. Nothing can be formally put on paper regarding a future extension. That is a violation of the CBA.
- This is where sitting out the entire season could come into play as a leverage ploy for Kawhi to protect his worth.

In the end I could see Kawhi folding and taking a 4 year extension since building trust is not one of his strengths and he is in his preferred location. The 4 year extension would be a win for the Clippers. Locking in for 4 years is better than 5 years, and Kawhi would have an incentive to come back as soon as reasonably possible to compete for 2022 postseason. It would also be a negotiation loss by Kawhi -- so who knows how that would make him feel.

However, if the deal signed is a 1+1, drama this upcoming year is not out of the question. Will he come back from injury this season? Maybe, maybe not.

BTW, my post above has nothing to do with your take. It was directed at the media’s perception.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Hypothetical: how would a 7 game series between the 2004 and 2021 Dream Teams (i.e. probably the two least talented squads, relatively speaking) play out?

View attachment 204171

Is Larry Brown the coach, or K and JB?

 

[Knicks411]

I don't know why the league is so infatuated with these early sign and trade deals instead of early signings (without sign and trade). They are all just as likely to have tampering. Yet this is what they focus on.

It's not like an early sign and trade deal has more "shade" then a regular signing. Teams are allowed to discuss the parameters of a sign and trade deal before the window opens so most of the parameters can be worked out. That is not tampering in itself if the player is not involved. In the Miami and Toronto deal its not like one can argue that there was no reason for Miami to think his signing was realistic. They knew (which they were allowed to know) that Lowry asked to be traded to Philly, Miami or the Lakers at last year's trade deadline.

All that is required is the sign off from the player on a contract -- the exact same as a regular signing without a trade.

Am I denying tampering in these deals. Not at all - but it happens in all those early hour deals. Picking on these particular S&T ones is totally arbitrary. It's no more implausible for a player to agree to a sign and trade contract deal 5 minutes after the window opens then a regular free agent signing 5 minutes post window.

If I had to guess, its because a sign and trade also involves two teams negotiating? Whereas a regular FA signing is just player and one team.

Just a guess though

 

[Knicks411]

Hypothetical: how would a 7 game series between the 2004 and 2021 Dream Teams (i.e. probably the two least talented squads, relatively speaking) play out?

View attachment 204171

I think 2021 has it. The 03 draft guys were still too young (they should've played more, don't get me wrong, but they werent the players they would become)

I think the 21 team was in a bit of a tough spot because of how compressed the last season was and you had 3 guys literally fly from the NBA finals to play in the olympics. I think if you have a more normal NBA season prior to the Olympics, this roster looks a little better. (Plus Dame was injured)

A team built around Dame, Booker, Holiday, Tatum, Durant, Bam, Middleton; that's still pretty formidable. That 04 team is really weird, how many guys on that roster are close to their prime? Duncan. Marion I guess? Marbury? If the Olympics fall in 06 and you keep that roster all of a sudden you have a killer team with the 03 draft guys and Amare exploding

 

[jncuse]

If I had to guess, its because a sign and trade also involves two teams negotiating? Whereas a regular FA signing is just player and one team.

Just a guess though

But the two teams are allowed to negotiate a trade amongst themselves before the window opens without tampering. So that can all be legally done before the window. All that is left is for the player to sign which according to the NBA can be reached in 10 minutes or less.

As I said before it's equally plausible (or equally implausible) for either type of contract to be negotiated and agreed to within 10 minutes of the window.

 

[MikeSU02]

Larry Brown didn’t play LeBron or Carmelo enough because he always played “his” guys.

2004
Can role out Wade-Iverson-LeBron-Odom-Duncan.
With Carmelo as the Tatum offense off the bench.
I think that team would win as long as Larry Brown wasn’t the coach.

Yeah... If you kept LB as head coach, I think 2021 can still win.

If you are talking a more general "who would win", 2004, I think.

That 2004 team was a mess, though, and this team has KD.

 

[MikeSU02]

I think 2021 has it. The 03 draft guys were still too young (they should've played more, don't get me wrong, but they werent the players they would become)

I think the 21 team was in a bit of a tough spot because of how compressed the last season was and you had 3 guys literally fly from the NBA finals to play in the olympics. I think if you have a more normal NBA season prior to the Olympics, this roster looks a little better. (Plus Dame was injured)

A team built around Dame, Booker, Holiday, Tatum, Durant, Bam, Middleton; that's still pretty formidable. That 04 team is really weird, how many guys on that roster are close to their prime? Duncan. Marion I guess? Marbury? If the Olympics fall in 06 and you keep that roster all of a sudden you have a killer team with the 03 draft guys and Amare exploding

2004 had AI as a co-captain. Nothing against AI, but that is a recipe for disaster.

 

[MikeSU02]

Narratives are funny. It took Leonard four days to re-sign with the Clippers. Apparently, this prolonged delay shows that Leonard is selfish and can’t be trusted.

NBA free agency started on November 20th last year. Anthony Davis didn’t re-sign with the Lakers until December 3rd.

And every team would sign him in a heart beat. It's just bitterness. I'll tell you what, if the Knicks could get Kawhi, I would have them move heaven and earth for him. You don't win titles without a top flight guy.

 

[jordville]

 

[jordville]

 

[kirbivore]

Twitter is saying LeBron and Anthony Davis violated rule 35 in the CBA for tampering when they admitted they met with Russell Westbrook but the NBA is going after Chicago.

Sounds like a NCAA situation where some shady Duke stuff hits the news and the NCAA goes after North Carolina A&T

 

[kirbivore]

I think 2021 has it. The 03 draft guys were still too young (they should've played more, don't get me wrong, but they werent the players they would become)

I think the 21 team was in a bit of a tough spot because of how compressed the last season was and you had 3 guys literally fly from the NBA finals to play in the olympics. I think if you have a more normal NBA season prior to the Olympics, this roster looks a little better. (Plus Dame was injured)

A team built around Dame, Booker, Holiday, Tatum, Durant, Bam, Middleton; that's still pretty formidable. That 04 team is really weird, how many guys on that roster are close to their prime? Duncan. Marion I guess? Marbury? If the Olympics fall in 06 and you keep that roster all of a sudden you have a killer team with the 03 draft guys and Amare exploding

I don't remember the specific reason but I'm thinking Kobe didn't play because the Lakers had just made the Finals 4 times in 5 years.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't remember the specific reason but I'm thinking Kobe didn't play because the Lakers had just made the Finals 4 times in 5 years.

Colorado is why Kobe withdrew.

 

[Knicks411]

Colorado is why Kobe withdrew.

Oh that

 

[OrangeDW]

So pumped for the season!

 

[cuseattle]

So pumped for the season!

Love that he still has the fire.