NBA Thread 2020-21 Season

Knicks411

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Harrell/Gasol should be an upgrade over Dwight/McGee, but I don't think it's as much of an upgrade as people in the media do. Gasol is basically just a guy at this point; a smart guy, but just a guy nonetheless.

I love Gasol. He's so smart, such a good passer, and will probably help them defensively.

BUT...

I kinda agree with you, they will be an improvement over McGee/Howard, but in the finals, McGee didn't play a minute and Howard played 71 minutes, total, in the 6 games. In the conf finals, McGee played 38 minutes total, and Howard played 101. So in the conf finals, they played about 28 MPG, and in the finals, about 12. My point being, it's obvious the Lakers are best with Davis at the 5, and Lebron the 4, and that is what the lineups will be when its important. Was it worth using the full MLE on Harrell?
 

CuseRunner

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Why did we give Austin Rivers 3 years 10 million. I want to keep every inch years of capspace available for future. Nothing more than 1 year.
 

Alsacs

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Wasn't really anything they could have done much differently. There wasn't anyone available that would move the needle. Would just be overpaying for guys that weren't difference makers. It's actually more encouraging that they didn't do anything too stupid like last year.
Knicks were smart. They didn’t spend stupid money and collected assets.

When the next trade piece comes along you got assets.

The Knicks are one broken leg to Luka Doncic to having to 2 lottery picks next year.
Actually with Porzingis out the Mavs might not be a playoff team anyway.
Golden State is going to be a playoff team most likely.
The Suns will be better.
The Blazers will be better.
Memphis, New Orleans who knows.
If Houston doesn’t trade Harden they will be a playoff team.

Knicks have a team to root against next year in Dallas since it’s an unprotected draft pick.
 

chugg21

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Why did we give Austin Rivers 3 years 10 million. I want to keep every inch years of capspace available for future. Nothing more than 1 year.
Are you really complaining about giving barely over the veterans minimum to a solid rotation guard? They have like 5 guys under contract past this season.
 

CuseRunner

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Are you really complaining about giving barely over the veterans minimum to a solid rotation guard? They have like 5 guys under contract past this season.

I dont like the 3 years. Also danger in giving these fringe guys contracts they are good enough to win a few games and cost us best chance to tank. Just my philosophy I would go the process root the next two seasons tank be bad a possible and add to our already young roster and draft picks we have.
 

Alsacs

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Does CuseRunner know what the stretch provision is?
Complaining about Austin Rivers is nothing anyway at worst if the team could get 2 impact players Rivers contract could get dealt for simply a future 2nd it’s not a bad contract at all.
 

chugg21

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I dont like the 3 years. Also danger in giving these fringe guys contracts they are good enough to win a few games and cost us best chance to tank. Just my philosophy I would go the process root the next two seasons tank be bad a possible and add to our already young roster and draft picks we have.
Do you know what kind of free agents sign with teams that go 20-62? None. So what's the point of cap space then? In order to get guys to come on board, they need to see progress. Not like you hire Thibs to be the guy to lead a tank job.
 

chugg21

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Does CuseRunner know what the stretch provision is?
Complaining about Austin Rivers is nothing anyway at worst if the team could get 2 impact players Rivers contract could get dealt for simply a future 2nd it’s not a bad contract at all.
Once led the Knicks to a 2023 championship in NBA2k on rookie setting.
 

CuseRunner

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Do you know what kind of free agents sign with teams that go 20-62? None. So what's the point of cap space then? In order to get guys to come on board, they need to see progress. Not like you hire Thibs to be the guy to lead a tank job.

For the 1000th time. I never wanted Thibs.
 

MikeSU02

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Knicks were smart. They didn’t spend stupid money and collected assets.

When the next trade piece comes along you got assets.

The Knicks are one broken leg to Luka Doncic to having to 2 lottery picks next year.
Actually with Porzingis out the Mavs might not be a playoff team anyway.
Golden State is going to be a playoff team most likely.
The Suns will be better.
The Blazers will be better.
Memphis, New Orleans who knows.
If Houston doesn’t trade Harden they will be a playoff team.

Knicks have a team to root against next year in Dallas since it’s an unprotected draft pick.

I'm expecting Dallas to be a playoff team and that's ok. Next year's draft will be a more normal level of talent and I'm fine if that ends up being a pick in the 20s. Banking on an MVP-level, top five guy, to go down isn't a recipe for success.

Hated our draft, but love our FA so far. Still think we're loading up with too many CAA/UK people in terms of the org and players, but c'est la vie.

The big question is when HS kids can be back in the draft. If it's 2022, that means the Emoni Bates sweepstakes is that year.
 

Arangeman

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I love Gasol. He's so smart, such a good passer, and will probably help them defensively.

BUT...

I kinda agree with you, they will be an improvement over McGee/Howard, but in the finals, McGee didn't play a minute and Howard played 71 minutes, total, in the 6 games. In the conf finals, McGee played 38 minutes total, and Howard played 101. So in the conf finals, they played about 28 MPG, and in the finals, about 12. My point being, it's obvious the Lakers are best with Davis at the 5, and Lebron the 4, and that is what the lineups will be when its important. Was it worth using the full MLE on Harrell?

I think the better fit was probably Ibaka but he wasn’t interested. Harrell was the best they could get at that value. They now have a second unit that can score without Lebron or Davis on the court. Giving up some defense for offense. Their closing line up in the finals had Markieff Morris as a hybrid small ball C.
 

Alsacs

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I'm expecting Dallas to be a playoff team and that's ok. Next year's draft will be a more normal level of talent and I'm fine if that ends up being a pick in the 20s. Banking on an MVP-level, top five guy, to go down isn't a recipe for success.

Hated our draft, but love our FA so far. Still think we're loading up with too many CAA/UK people in terms of the org and players, but c'est la vie.

The big question is when HS kids can be back in the draft. If it's 2022, that means the Emoni Bates sweepstakes is that year.
The West is deep.
Luka being a top 5 player saves Dallas but as I said one injury and that team isn’t good next year.

Luka was insane this year and they were only the 7 seed.

I think Portland will jump to a 4 seed next year and they were below Dallas.

Knicks next year could get a lottery pick from Dallas. 2023 seems very unlikely.
 

chugg21

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For the 1000th time. I never wanted Thibs.
That is no longer relevant. It has already happened and need to make the right moves going forward. There is no benefit anymore of finishing last and winning 20 games. Need to surround the kids that you think are the future foundation with teammates that aren't pure garbage and see if they are building blocks or already a sunk cost. Time for guys like Smith, Knox and Frankie Smokes to sink or swim this year. If they continue to be garbage than you can move on after this season and move forward with RJ, Mitchell & hopefuly Obi as keepers and then supplement them with another high lotto pick next year and whatever $60+ mill buys you in a much better FA class.
 

NineOneSeven

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I am a huge Mitchell Robinson fan. In a league shifting away from that position he still stands out. Has to reduce his fouls and expand his offensive game but watch out for him. Huge fan.
 

Alsacs

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It’s one thing to do what Golden State did last year which was pay the credit card for playing in 5 straight finals with their second best player being out for the season.

Wanting to tank before the season is just stupidity.
Build a culture.
 

jncuse

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Lakers get Gasol. He looked old and lumbering to me last year. Jncuse any thoughts? What is LA getting here?

So my high level analysis of Gasol:
1) The advanced metrics like Gasol quite a bit. They all suggest he is a really good defender. His on/off court stats are very good. Raptors were always stronger on/off with Gasol than Ibaka, and there were many debates between the two on RealGM Raptors.
2) That being said those numbers are hard to explain. He does look lethargic very often, and it seems like Ibaka is doing more out there. But Ibaka is not a great defender in space, while Gasol is an extremely smart defender in space despite being slow. But when Gasol gets beat its because he is slow -- and those do stick out. Gasol did a great job neutralizing Vucevic and Embiid in the title run.
3) The Celtics really took advantage of Gasol or Gasol was totally burnt ... one of the other (more on that later) because he was clearly a liability in that series.
4) I can see Gasol getting destroyed by the fanbase in LA like Green has been, even if the metrics are solid.
5) He is an epic drinker as evidenced by the Raptors parade.. Google "Marc Gasol Raptors Celebration"


In terms of being lethargic.
- When he arrived to the Raptors in 2019 the first month or so he was slow.
- However it picked up by the playoffs and he was instrumental in the Raps defensive schemes against Orlando, Philly, Milwaukee. He was certainly a player that put us over the top.
- He continued the great play into the summer of 2019, being one of the best players at the 2019 World Championship that was won by Spain.
- When the 19/20 season started he was really tired. He looked bad out there -- but the metrics were still fairly good. He got injured for about a month.
- After the injury he came back rejuvenated and played really good for the Raptors right up to the Covid Break in March. It was his best period as a Raptor.
- When basketball came back in July Gasol looked great body wise. He looked to have lost about 25 pounds. But for some reason Nurse did not play him much in those first 8 games back -- and he still looked lethargic out there despite the weight loss. My theory -- pure speculation -- is that he did get Covid and this led to the weight loss.
- He started to gain weight again through the playoffs but continued to look tired. The Celtics series was clearly his low point as a Raptor. Nurse was afraid of playing Ibaka more because of his mental gaffes on the defensive end -- while Gasol does not have the same mental lapses he has body lapses.

It's a low risk signing for the Lakers. In the right matchup Gasol can be an asset in the playoffs -- if his body is co-operating.
 

Briancuse

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Do you understand how the lottery works.
You can tank have the worst record in the league and the other 4 worst teams will have the same odds in the lottery.

You want to tank every team you root for. What the hell is the point of caring then.
I get it for football if there is a Trevor Lawrence out there, The Nba even if you go 5-77 you have a 25 pct chance of getting the pick.
 

jncuse

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Gasol was single handily the difference in the Celtics-Raptors playoff series.
He was such a negative player on the court I didn’t get why he played.

He is a player living off his name. He wasn’t a good defender in that series and his shooting was down.
The Lakers don’t need him to be anything more than a body. If they are expecting another Dwight Howard year from this year from him I wouldn’t expect it.
The Harrel, Matthews signings just redid their bench.
LeBron is going to definitely take some games off this year as he earned that with this deep title run.
The Lakers now have a bench to survive it. If Gasol wasn’t injured in the playoffs then he is cooked.

The Celtics series was the low point of Gasol by far... as was all his play when the continued after the Lockdown. I agree he was a liability. Nick Nurse kept playing Gasol because he could not trust Ibaka on Defence. It was a strategic mistake on my part, but does tell you things about Ibaka's regressed defence.

But as I mentioned in my above post something happened to him in the Covid break -- he lost a lot of weight, but yet was unfit to play early on. And then he put back the weight as the playoffs continued and was still really lethargic (even by his standards)... you could tell something was wrong with him because he was getting really frustrated with himself. It could have just been old.

But in the recent following periods he was also a positive / good player. He was not "living" off his name as you put it all the time.
2019 Playoffs (especially first 3 rounds). Great defender and facilitator on offence although he could not really score.
2019 World Championships
Jan - March 2020.
 

chugg21

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I get it for football if there is a Trevor Lawrence out there, The Nba even if you go 5-77 you have a 25 pct chance of getting the pick.
It made some sense prior to the changes if you were a team on the treadmill and there was a difference maker or 2 in the draft. Makes no sense now.
 

jncuse

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That’s what I saw in Gasol too. If his name wasn’t Gasol no one would care. I’d rather have just kept Howard or had both. Maybe Philly will get sick of Howard halfway through the season.

I wouldn't totally focus on the Celtics series. Something was off then vs the prior 12 months ... of course he may have finally hit the wall.

EDIT - After looking at the game log, perhaps I am overly influenced by his great 8 game run in early 2020. The rest of 2020 he stank.
 
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Knicks411

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I get it for football if there is a Trevor Lawrence out there, The Nba even if you go 5-77 you have a 25 pct chance of getting the pick.

It's even worse now, worst record has a 14% chance of the top pick. (bottom 3 teams all have 14% chane)
 

jncuse

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I went back and looked at the Game Log. I was mistaken on a few things on my timeline -- by a fair bit.

He was injured in December 2019. But he came back for 8 games in January 2020, a streak that I clearly remembered -- he was outstanding in those 8 games and played like a top 10 NBA Centre given his defensive acusmen.

In those 8 games the Raptors went 8-0, with various injuries and Gasol was key as the team was +77 while he as on the court. He averaged 12-6-4 in 26 minutes a game and was playing really sharp defensively. That period was his best as a Raptor. In those 8 games he shot 53% from 3 as well, on 4.5 attempts per game.

But I thought that period was more than 8 games in my earlier posts. In fact he missed the next 17 games before the Covid break with another injury. Then the playoffs came and he was useless.

So the positives for Gasol last year were basically only that 8 game stretch where he was really good. His body broke down after that / or he just hit the I am getting really old wall that hits fast.
 
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jncuse

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Harrell/Gasol should be an upgrade over Dwight/McGee, but I don't think it's as much of an upgrade as people in the media do. Gasol is basically just a guy at this point; a smart guy, but just a guy nonetheless.

He was much more than just a guy in the 2019 ECF and the 2019 Playoffs.
He was a scrub one year later however.
 

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