NBA Thread 2020-21 Season

[jncuse]

Clippers up 31 in the second quarter against the Suns. Lead now down to 7 entering the fourth quarter.

Suns could go to 6-1 if they somehow pull this off.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

You didn't say NBA career, you said career.

Well then I’m in the running for going undefeated with multiple ‘ships in church league

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Well then I’m in the running for going undefeated with multiple ‘ships in church league

They count for the basketball HOF, for sure.

I count my fantasy basketball trophies.

 

[Alsacs]

Came across this recent interview of Shawn Kemp and it had some great stories...
1. In his rookie year, Shawn Kemp played just 13.8 MPG. He was so frustrated, that after Sonics games, he’d go to local Seattle courts and play pickup with fans. So many people came out to watch The Reignman, that the city shut down streets and has to control riots. Sonics then made him stop. I hadn't heard this one.

2. There were always rumors and some little nuggets about a Pippen for Kemp trade back in the day. Kemp not only confirmed it, but said it was a done deal until Seattle management pulled the plug on it because of fear from the Sonics fan burning down the building.

I won't go into all if it, but it is worth a listen for NBA fans...

The Shawn Kemp-Larry Bird story was funny as well. Bird went hard at Kemp because Kemp broke Bird’s Indiana HS records and was talking to him the whole game.

The Bulls are lucky that Pippen deal never happened. Pippen was the perfect 2nd banana for the Bulls and covered the fact the Bulls didn’t have a good PG since Pippen did a lot of the ball handling.

Kemp and Jordan don’t appear to mesh as well.

 

[jncuse]

Clippers up 31 in the second quarter against the Suns. Lead now down to 7 entering the fourth quarter.

Suns could go to 6-1 if they somehow pull this off.

Suns got within 1, but Paul George who played great the entire game brought them home.

 

[Arangeman]

Suns got within 1, but Paul George who played great the entire game brought them home.

Regular Season P

 

[NineOneSeven]

Steph with 62. Warriors most likely don’t make playoffs unless Steph does insane things every night.

Having some great discussions with a buddy. Clearly recognizes Steph as an all timer but thinks he also should be able to lead a team by himself to the playoffs if that’s the case, and doesn’t seem like he would this year without klay. Just curious what people think about that.

 

[MikeSU02]

Steph with 62. Warriors most likely don’t make playoffs unless Steph does insane things every night.

Having some great discussions with a buddy. Clearly recognizes Steph as an all timer but thinks he also should be able to lead a team by himself to the playoffs if that’s the case, and doesn’t seem like he would this year without klay. Just curious what people think about that.

I think Steph is one of the most impactful players to ever play in the NBA. He fundamentally changed the way the game was played and he has had some insane stats in terms of %s and totals.

You cannot judge him based on this team. They expected to have Klay. They had to overpay for Kelly Oubre and it fundamentally changed their whole strategy weeks before the season started. It’s not just that they don’t have Klay, it’s that they got stuck having prepped the whole time to have him.

They could still make the playoffs which would be a big feat in the West. Draymond has fallen off a cliff. Wiggins is Wiggins. Every fourth game he’ll tease you with a decent game. Wiseman looks to ooze potential but just needs time.

Want to talk about a HoF level guy that didn’t perform as the lead of his own team? Anthony Davis.

Steph is one of the most important guys to lace them up and a lot of guys benefitted from playing with him.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Steph with 62. Warriors most likely don’t make playoffs unless Steph does insane things every night.

Having some great discussions with a buddy. Clearly recognizes Steph as an all timer but thinks he also should be able to lead a team by himself to the playoffs if that’s the case, and doesn’t seem like he would this year without klay. Just curious what people think about that.

There's a whole lot of season to go.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Dame opened his mouth, got cooked in the first quarter and wanted nothing to do with Steph after that.

 

[Horn88]

Steph with 62. Warriors most likely don’t make playoffs unless Steph does insane things every night.

Having some great discussions with a buddy. Clearly recognizes Steph as an all timer but thinks he also should be able to lead a team by himself to the playoffs if that’s the case, and doesn’t seem like he would this year without klay. Just curious what people think about that.

I agree with your buddy. I don’t really even understand why what Dame said was controversial. Steph was on teams that were loaded and it 100% made his life easier like it would any great player.

If Steph is who everyone has said he was for the last 5-6 years then GSW should at the very least make the playoffs. Harden, AD, Russ, Bron and others have all carried teams to the playoffs (or in Bron’s case the Finals) with rosters pretty similar to the one Steph has this year and nobody really had much sympathy for them. If anything people would hate on them when they didn’t go far but Steph’s always played by different rules in how he gets a pass for everything.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I agree with your buddy. I don’t really even understand why what Dame said was controversial. Steph was on teams that were loaded and it 100% made his life easier like it would any great player.

If Steph is who everyone has said he was for the last 5-6 years then GSW should at the very least make the playoffs. Harden, AD, Russ, Bron and others have all carried teams to the playoffs (or in Bron’s case the Finals) with rosters pretty similar to the one Steph has this year and nobody really had much sympathy for them. If anything people would hate on them when they didn’t go far but Steph’s always played by different rules in how he gets a pass for everything.

I don’t even know what Lillard said. The last sentence is interesting.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I agree with your buddy. I don’t really even understand why what Dame said was controversial. Steph was on teams that were loaded and it 100% made his life easier like it would any great player.

If Steph is who everyone has said he was for the last 5-6 years then GSW should at the very least make the playoffs. Harden, AD, Russ, Bron and others have all carried teams to the playoffs (or in Bron’s case the Finals) with rosters pretty similar to the one Steph has this year and nobody really had much sympathy for them. If anything people would hate on them when they didn’t go far but Steph’s always played by different rules in how he gets a pass for everything.

No offense but this comes off as a salty post. Davis isn't a good comparison. He was with the Pelicans 6 years and went to the playoffs twice. The one time he made it to the second round he had Demarcus Cousins at his best for half the season and Jrue Holiday's best season. The year before that team won 34 games. If anything Davis got more excuses than anyone for those 6 seasons. Heck Lebron wouldn't have most likely had the Lakers in the playoffs 2 years ago. The west is not the east.

 

[Horn88]

No offense but this comes off as a salty post. Davis isn't a good comparison. He was with the Pelicans 6 years and went to the playoffs twice. The one time he made it to the second round he had Demarcus Cousins at his best for half the season and Jrue Holiday's best season. The year before that team won 34 games. If anything Davis got more excuses than anyone for those 6 seasons. Heck Lebron wouldn't have most likely had the Lakers in the playoffs 2 years ago. The west is not the east.

No offense taken but I appreciate the opening sentence. We’re just having fun talking ball.

I’ll concede the AD point. Russ, Harden, Bron and I’m sure I could find others all still stand though and show the double standard Steph always gets.

Harden won his division and 56 games in 14-15 with his second leading scorer as Ariza not even at 15 ppg.

Durant signs with GSW and Steph and leaves Russ with a bunch of role players and a younger Oladipo who averaged 16ppg as second leading scorer. Russ averaged a triple double to get OKC to the 6 seed.

Similar to how I’m not a fan of Steph I know you’re a Bron hater but the “east isn’t the west” argument is weak and easily is salty as well. Lakers were 20-14 and in the 4-5 seed range then Bron, Rondo, Ingram, Lonzo all got hurt and they shut things down. Next year he plays full season and wins a ring from the West. He was only 22 I think when he took down that Pistons team (who was good no matter what conference) to get to the Finals with Hughes as his sidekick who didn’t even average 15 ppg.

When Steph is in the playoffs flanked by 3-4 Dream Teamers and is up big staring down opposing benches and talking trash life is good and he’s unbelievable. Then he has a normal roster and they kinda suck to start last year and this year and everyone wants to make excuses they don’t give other guys.

 

[Cusefan0307]

No offense taken but I appreciate the opening sentence. We’re just having fun talking ball.

I’ll concede the AD point. Russ, Harden, Bron and I’m sure I could find others all still stand though and show the double standard Steph always gets.

Harden won his division and 56 games in 14-15 with his second leading scorer as Ariza not even at 15 ppg.

Durant signs with GSW and Steph and leaves Russ with a bunch of role players and a younger Oladipo who averaged 16ppg as second leading scorer. Russ averaged a triple double to get OKC to the 6 seed.

Similar to how I’m not a fan of Steph I know you’re a Bron hater but the “east isn’t the west” argument is weak and easily is salty as well. Lakers were 20-14 and in the 4-5 seed range then Bron, Rondo, Ingram, Lonzo all got hurt and they shut things down. Next year he plays full season and wins a ring from the West. He was only 22 I think when he took down that Pistons team (who was good no matter what conference) to get to the Finals with Hughes as his sidekick who didn’t even average 15 ppg.

When Steph is in the playoffs flanked by 3-4 Dream Teamers and is up big staring down opposing benches and talking trash life is good and he’s unbelievable. Then he has a normal roster and they kinda suck to start last year and this year and everyone wants to make excuses they don’t give other guys.

I'm actually not a Lebron hater. I'm a Lebron stan hater. It's unfortunate, but fans who only root for Lebron and want to trash on everyone else force me to root for everyone else. I blame twitter.

I mean if you're going to use that argument I could make the same argument about Klay. The Lakers missed the playoffs by 12 games. I think in the end they would have fallen just short. The seasons not over though so we will see what happens.

 

[Horn88]

I'm actually not a Lebron hater. I'm a Lebron stan hater. It's unfortunate, but fans who only root for Lebron and want to trash on everyone else force me to root for everyone else. I blame twitter.

I mean if you're going to use that argument I could make the same argument about Klay. The Lakers missed the playoffs by 12 games. I think in the end they would have fallen just short. The seasons not over though so we will see what happens.

It’s not the same argument about him losing Klay because the whole point is that other superstars have had to carry teams without another Dream Team member(s) and did.

You’re right though the season is still real young so we’ll see if they make the playoffs. As of right now they’d be the 8 seed so very well could happen. All I’m saying is if Steph is a superstar in his prime then you should be able to get your team to the playoffs. The supporting cast isn’t great but it’s no worse than what other guys carried.

 

[Horn88]

I don’t even know what Lillard said. The last sentence is interesting.

It was benign and media gassed it up. All he said was things are different this year for Steph than the last 4-5 years so it’s harder for him.

Dame’s comments are objectively true and Steph is a great player who responded last night by going off and getting a career high.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It’s not the same argument about him losing Klay because the whole point is that other superstars have had to carry teams without another Dream Team member(s) and did.

You’re right though the season is still real young so we’ll see if they make the playoffs. As of right now they’d be the 8 seed so very well could happen. All I’m saying is if Steph is a superstar in his prime then you should be able to get your team to the playoffs. The supporting cast isn’t great but it’s no worse than what other guys carried.

This is interesting because I'm seeing that it's helping to clarify my own position on things.

I'm also of the belief that if a guy is really that good, he gets his team to the playoffs.

But now I'm seeing, that's a standard I only care to apply to young players. Vets that have done some winning, I don't worry about it anymore. Steph to me has nothing to prove, plus, he did take his team to the playoffs twice under Mark Jackson before the Warriors really became the Warriors we knew. I didn't care when Melo didn't get the Knicks to the playoffs.

So, yeah, when a young guy is getting hyped, I want to see them get to the playoffs before I give them credit. But once a guy has done that, I'm not sure what more he needs to prove.

 

[MikeSU02]

It’s not the same argument about him losing Klay because the whole point is that other superstars have had to carry teams without another Dream Team member(s) and did.

You’re right though the season is still real young so we’ll see if they make the playoffs. As of right now they’d be the 8 seed so very well could happen. All I’m saying is if Steph is a superstar in his prime then you should be able to get your team to the playoffs. The supporting cast isn’t great but it’s no worse than what other guys carried.

Who are these dream teamers? Do you want to see the on/off stats for Steph vs KD when they were on the team together? I promise you the make Steph look much more valuable than KD.

Without KD, the Dubs won 73 games.

Klay and Draymond had their lives made 100x easier because of Steph. Draymond on any mediocre team is a guy who just gets technical fouls and plays good D.

It's the first two weeks of the season, how are you so sure about anything?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Who are these dream teamers? Do you want to see the on/off stats for Steph vs KD when they were on the team together? I promise you the make Steph look much more valuable than KD.

Without KD, the Dubs won 73 games.

Klay and Draymond had their lives made 100x easier because of Steph. Draymond on any mediocre team is a guy who just gets technical fouls and plays good D.

It's the first two weeks of the season, how are you so sure about anything?

Yeah, legacy wise Draymond isn't looking so good anymore. Nothing wrong with being the right guy/right place/right role player, but it looked at one time like he was more than that, and now it looks like the stars aligned perfectly for him and it's doubtful if he was anywhere else if he would have had any significant impact.

 

[Knicks411]

I don't think Steph is the player he was in his MVP winning prime. He's a small guard and he's 32 now. I still think he's very good, maybe even he is great still, but he's not the 2015-18 guy.

I don't totall agree that the pre Durant warriors were "loaded". Steph was the driving force behind those teams. The on/off numbers tell the story. Klay and Draymond are both great players in their own way, but again, I think Steph was the engine there. Everything came off his shooting and the attention it drew; Draymond is a great playmaker, but they could get a 4 on 3 every time they did a Steph/Green PNR because the other team was so scared of Steph shooting they would double/trap him everywhere. It's awesome that Klay can score 50 pts or whatever and dribble 8 times in a whole game, but what if he had to dribble a little more?

 

[NineOneSeven]

From before last night’s game

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I don't think Steph is the player he was in his MVP winning prime. He's a small guard and he's 32 now. I still think he's very good, maybe even he is great still, but he's not the 2015-18 guy.

I don't totall agree that the pre Durant warriors were "loaded". Steph was the driving force behind those teams. The on/off numbers tell the story. Klay and Draymond are both great players in their own way, but again, I think Steph was the engine there. Everything came off his shooting and the attention it drew; Draymond is a great playmaker, but they could get a 4 on 3 every time they did a Steph/Green PNR because the other team was so scared of Steph shooting they would double/trap him everywhere. It's awesome that Klay can score 50 pts or whatever and dribble 8 times in a whole game, but what if he had to dribble a little more?

Agree 100%, I don't think Draymond is what he was back 3-4 years ago either and not really close. Always hurt and with Klay he's been hurt. Steph changed the game, he's arguably the best shooter ever ( Highly debatable I know) but he and Klay are probably the best shooting back court ever. The team that lost to the Cavs before KD was one of the best teams ever and Steph was by far the best player on that team. Steph is also 6-3, 180 not a physical freak like a lot of these guys out there. I don't even like the Warriors.

I just think Steph is aging a bit and Steph and Klay are also 2nd generation and I think that hurts both their street cred to be honest and why you see some of this stuff starting to pop up.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Is there a player who’s had a worse start to the season than Kelly Oubre? 3 Assists and 13 turnovers in 166 minutes. 2 for 30 from 3.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Is there a player who’s had a worse start to the season than Kelly Oubre? 3 Assists and 13 turnovers in 166 minutes. 2 for 30 from 3.

It’s been crazy and the biggest reason the warriors started slow. He is much better than he’s played and he will turn it around.