NBA Thread 2021-22 Season

[IthacaBarrel]

Love to see this regarding the Lakers

That is just crazy. And it just lends itself to pointing of fingers after the fact. They really need to try best they can to patch something together as long as LeBron is there but maybe just blow the whole thing up after this season, clean house and bring in a new VO of ops, coach and a GM that are on the same page They need to get some draft assets back as well. They really should trade AD sooner rather than later as well, IMO

Most importantly, hire the new staff and let them do their jobs without the circus of influence that now surrounds the franchise

 

[MikeSU02]

What’s the difference between Luka and peak Harden ? Other than aesthetics .. I don’t see much

Peak Harden? You mean MVP, 1st Team All NBA six out of seven years? Guy who was one hamstring on CP3 away from likely winning a title?

Luka has arguably had the best start of a career of all time. The big difference between the two is that Luka can play on ball D for guys that aren't dynamic drivers and on offense he has a back down game and can play back to the basket.

He can also play off ball better. Harden wouldn't move without the ball. Luka can play off ball and has done it pre NBA.

The other difference is he's come through in huge playoff games against very tough teams (Clips w/ PG13 and Kawhi; 64-win Suns team) and is scoring at the level of MJ in the playoffs, basically.

I get that they are comparable, but Luka through his first four years is much more accomplished than Harden. He's about to get his third straight All NBA First Team. If he had a legit second player and someone who could functionally play center, the Mavs would be favored to win the title right now.

 

[MikeSU02]

That is just crazy. And it just lends itself to pointing of fingers after the fact. They really need to try best they can to patch something together as long as LeBron is there but maybe just blow the whole thing up after this season, clean house and bring in a new VO of ops, coach and a GM that are on the same page They need to get some draft assets back as well. They really should trade AD sooner rather than later as well, IMO

They need to offer the moon to Sam Presti and empower him to fire anyone he wants and bring in his own coach.

I don't know that they would ever do that, tho.

I'm not sure who they can attract to be in the orbit of LeBron in his last years though.

They are in a super tough spot with a lot of egos.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

 

[djcon57]

I mean...Wiggins has played well, but “show the world why he was the former number 1 pick”. He’s the 4th or 5th most important player on the team. He’s done a great job, no doubt. Anyone that pays him to be a 1 or 2 going forward is going to be massively disappointed

 

[MikeSU02]

I mean...Wiggins has played well, but “show the world why he was the former number 1 pick”. He’s the 4th or 5th most important player on the team. He’s done a great job, no doubt. Anyone that pays him to be a 1 or 2 going forward is going to be massively disappointed

Yeah, I also don't think Steph needs to hear Luka praised to try to win a title. The guy is the greatest shooter in the history of the league.

The Wiggins stuff... yikes. I mean, I love Luka and the Mavs are a good team, but they can't functionally protect the rim and Jalen Brunson is the second best player... I mean, we're not exactly talking '96 Bulls here.

I'm glad Wiggins found a place that can use him in a specific role. Seems like a good dude and is a solid player. Put him in the right lane and he can flourish.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

That is just crazy. And it just lends itself to pointing of fingers after the fact. They really need to try best they can to patch something together as long as LeBron is there but maybe just blow the whole thing up after this season, clean house and bring in a new VO of ops, coach and a GM that are on the same page They need to get some draft assets back as well. They really should trade AD sooner rather than later as well, IMO

Most importantly, hire the new staff and let them do their jobs without the circus of influence that now surrounds the franchise

The problem is bad ownership. Jeanie Buss isn't Dr. Buss.

There's no fix for bad ownership. Bad owners habitually make bad decisions. Overwhelming talent can be a bandaid. But that's really it.

The difference between the results the Kings get and the Lakers get is location of the franchise.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Wiggins is Andre Iguodala 2.0. Not the same type of player, but he had the same criticism in Philly. Some guys aren’t meant to be a lead guy and that’s fine.

All the Warriors not named Curry have been mostly playing 4 on 3 during the playoffs. I know he hasn’t shot it quite as well from deep this year, but overall I think this is the best Curry has ever played and his fourth quarter numbers during the playoffs are better than everyone.

 

[djcon57]

Wiggins is Andre Iguodala 2.0. Not the same type of player, but he had the same criticism in Philly. Some guys aren’t meant to be lead guy and that’s fine.

All the Warriors not named Curry have been mostly playing 4 on 3 during the playoffs. I know he hasn’t shot it quite as well from deep this year, but overall I think this is the best Curry has ever played and his fourth quarter numbers during the playoffs are better than everyone.

That’s the perfect comp. we’ll see if Wiggins is ok with getting getting that 10-15 mill type salary. In the long term, it’s the right move for him. Could stick around the league for another 5 years.

He’ll be making 33 next year for reference

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Wiggins is Kawhi Lite right now, and that ain't bad.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Warriors front office is doing a tremendous job of roster management and finding talented pieces that fit. When is Draymond's contract up? That will be an interesting decision. Also I like Brunson but 20 mill per how many years...not sure I can do that.

Draymond is the heart of that team

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Peak Harden? You mean MVP, 1st Team All NBA six out of seven years? Guy who was one hamstring on CP3 away from likely winning a title?

Luka has arguably had the best start of a career of all time. The big difference between the two is that Luka can play on ball D for guys that aren't dynamic drivers and on offense he has a back down game and can play back to the basket.

He can also play off ball better. Harden wouldn't move without the ball. Luka can play off ball and has done it pre NBA.

The other difference is he's come through in huge playoff games against very tough teams (Clips w/ PG13 and Kawhi; 64-win Suns team) and is scoring at the level of MJ in the playoffs, basically.

I get that they are comparable, but Luka through his first four years is much more accomplished than Harden. He's about to get his third straight All NBA First Team. If he had a legit second player and someone who could functionally play center, the Mavs would be favored to win the title right now.

Steve Kerr: Warriors Would Have Beaten Rockets in 5 Games with Andre Iguodala

The Golden State Warriors ultimately advanced to their fourth consecutive NBA Finals with a 101-92 victory over the Houston Rockets in Game 7 on Monday, but if his team had been ...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

I agree with Kerr. That series was only close because Iggy was out.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The problem is bad ownership. Jeanie Buss isn't Dr. Buss.

There's no fix for bad ownership. Bad owners habitually make bad decisions. Overwhelming talent can be a bandaid. But that's really it.

The difference between the results the Kings get and the Lakers get is location of the franchise.

Agreed. And that is why she really needs to at some point just clean house and start over if she's ever going to be willing to do that. Give somebody the keys to the kingdom and get the hell out of the way. Rebuild it and once the franchise has solid leadership I would imagine the players will come back etc. You are 100% spot on, look at the Knicks and other ownership groups who continue to make the same mistakes. It's funny that the T Wolves are now going after the Nuggets GM, the raptors got Masai etc. The guys are out there but they come at a premium and they want to do things their way. They certainly aren't interested in listening to Team Rambis when building a team back. A lot of owners aren't willing to give that up. With the Lakers, Jeannie Buss is unwilling to get rid of a lot of the old guard and I don't think a really good GM or VP of Ops would be willing to come into that mess unless they get to call the shots. Some patience is also required when starting over as well.

 

[Newhouser]

Draymond is the heart of that team

I get that. I also think Steph is the only irreplaceable piece there. Draymond will be 34 after next season when he becomes a UFA. He makes what 25-30 million now, and will want at least that and years. That is a tough call in my opinion. Think Klay and Poole have expiring deals the same year. No way they extend Klay but they are going to think about Draymond too.

 

[MikeSU02]

Agreed. And that is why she really needs to at some point just clean house and start over if she's ever going to be willing to do that. Give somebody the keys to the kingdom and get the hell out of the way. Rebuild it and once the franchise has solid leadership I would imagine the players will come back etc. You are 100% spot on, look at the Knicks and other ownership groups who continue to make the same mistakes. It's funny that the T Wolves are now going after the Nuggets GM, the raptors got Masai etc. The guys are out there but they come at a premium and they want to do things their way. A lot of owners aren't willing to give that up. With the Lakers, Jeannie Buss is unwilling to get rid of a lot of the old guard and I don't think a really good GM or VP of Ops would be willing to come into that mess unless they get to call the shots. Some patience is also required when starting over as well.

The rumor is that Minny is going to pay a HUGE premium for their guy, Tim Connelly, that they want. You are 100% accurate with that. But it's worth it if you find the right person. You need a benevolent and capable dictator in POBO type role, not a democracy where there are a thousand voices.

 

[MikeSU02]

Steve Kerr: Warriors Would Have Beaten Rockets in 5 Games with Andre Iguodala

The Golden State Warriors ultimately advanced to their fourth consecutive NBA Finals with a 101-92 victory over the Houston Rockets in Game 7 on Monday, but if his team had been ...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

I agree with Kerr. That series was only close because Iggy was out.

OK, so a guy who brought his team to the WCF and had a shot against an incredible dynasty with arguably the greatest scorer of all time, the greatest shooter of all time and another top five shooter of all time.

I mean, I get the point, but Harden had success even if he's not a guy most people want to root for. If the salary cap doesn't jump with the new media deal without a smoothing, KD isn't there and it's a whole other universe.

[EDIT: I want to super clear, I don't like Harden. A guy who doesn't even try on defense OR on offense when he doesn't have the ball with that much talent is not fun to root for]

 

[MikeSU02]

I get that. I also think Steph is the only irreplaceable piece there. Draymond will be 34 after next season when he becomes a UFA. He makes what 25-30 million now, and will want at least that and years. That is a tough call in my opinion. Think Klay and Poole have expiring deals the same year. No way they extend Klay but they are going to think about Draymond too.

I wonder how much TNT will pay Draymond when he isn't part time and can be a full time TV guy... because he could make serious money from that.

Draymond and Steph are such a perfectly odd couple that works so well.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I have a hard time believing Curry, Thompson, and Green will be split up. It's a lot like Duncan, Parker and Ginobili were and Bob Myers/Kerr have been on record saying that's the model they have built their org off of. Obviously Green and Klay will need to take less money when their deals are up, but I won't be surprised if they do.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The rumor is that Minny is going to pay a HUGE premium for their guy, Tim Connelly, that they want. You are 100% accurate with that. But it's worth it if you find the right person. You need a benevolent and capable dictator in POBO type role, not a democracy where there are a thousand voices.

yep, you can look at what David Griffin has done in New Orleans as well. Some good some really bad but it's obvious Gayle Benson has turned the franchise over to him, Trajon Langdon and Swin Cash but ultimately it's his doing. All of it. The good, the bad and the ugly. A lot of the management that crossed over from the Saints made it extremely cumbersome to really do anything not the case anymore.

If you look at David Griffin he has taken a lot of grief for the decisions he has made but at the end of the day it's all on him. The hiring/ firing of Stan Van Gundy, the horrendous lack of assets he got back for Lonzo Ball, giving up a 1st round pick for Devonte Graham, the handling of Zion, the Jaxson Hayes draft pick but he also gets accolades for what looks like a good culture he has built there, the hiring of Willie Green ( probably his best move) after the debacle of a hire in SVG, and the 2021 draft class which was fantastic as well as what he has been able to get back for the AD trade, which he has flipped for basically multiple 1st rounders including the 8th pick this year as well as using some of those assets to get CJ and Larry Nance. It's all his doing good or bad and obviously Gayle Benson has let him call the shots by eliminating a lot of the old management. It's a work in progress for sure but he has been given a tremendously long leash and made mistakes which have cost serious $ and some great moves as well. Jury still out over the next couple years. His next big move will be the handling of Zion's contract extension

 

[MikeSU02]

yep, you can look at what David Griffin has done in New Orleans as well. Some good some really bad but it's obvious Gayle Benson has turned the franchise over to him, Trajon Langdon and Swin Cash but ultimately it's his doing. All of it. The good, the bad and the ugly. A lot of the management that crossed over from the Saints made it extremely cumbersome to really do anything not the case anymore.

If you look at David Griffin he has taken a lot of grief for the decisions he has made but at the end of the day it's all on him. The hiring/ firing of Stan Van Gundy, the horrendous lack of assets he got back for Lonzo Ball, giving up a 1st round pick for Devonte Graham, the handling of Zion, the Jaxson Hayes draft pick but he also gets accolades for what looks like a good culture he has built there, the hiring of Willie Green ( probably his best move) after the debacle of a hire in SVG, and the 2021 draft class which was fantastic as well as what he has been able to get back for the AD trade, which he has flipped for basically multiple 1st rounders including the 8th pick this year as well as using some of those assets to get CJ and Larry Nance. It's all his doing good or bad and obviously Gayle Benson has let him call the shots by eliminating a lot of the old management. It's a work in progress for sure but he has been given a tremendously long leash and made mistakes which have cost serious $ and some great moves as well. Jury still out over the next couple years. His next big move will be the handling of Zion's contract extension

Yep - one of the traits of good leaders is identifying and acknowledging (and then fixing) wrong choices (or unplanned consequences, whatever you want to call it). Kudos for Griffin for that. No one is perfect, but the best people hit more than miss and learn from mistakes to get better.

Couldn't agree more with what you wrote.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

OK, so a guy who brought his team to the WCF and had a shot against an incredible dynasty with arguably the greatest scorer of all time, the greatest shooter of all time and another top five shooter of all time.

I mean, I get the point, but Harden had success even if he's not a guy most people want to root for. If the salary cap doesn't jump with the new media deal without a smoothing, KD isn't there and it's a whole other universe.

[EDIT: I want to super clear, I don't like Harden. A guy who doesn't even try on defense OR on offense when he doesn't have the ball with that much talent is not fun to root for]

My point was that if EVRYBODY was healthy, no one would be saying that Harden was a CP3 injury away from going to the finals. Its a misleading narrative for people who want to argue that he is a championship player. He isn't. Also, if CP3 was healthy, they likely still lose, because CP3 is gonna CP3 in the big game, anyway.
Now, if you want to say GS is a Klay Thompson injury away from having another ring, I will buy that all day long.

 

[MikeSU02]

My point was that if EVRYBODY was healthy, no one would be saying that Harden was a CP3 injury away from going to the finals. Its a misleading narrative for people who want to argue that he is a championship player. He isn't. Also, if CP3 was healthy, they likely still lose, because CP3 is gonna CP3 in the big game, anyway.
Now, if you want to say GS is a Klay Thompson injury away from having another ring, I will buy that all day long.

I'm not going to cape for Harden. I don't like him.

My bigger point is that Luka is a stud. And on a trajectory to be an all-timer.

His team needs to be better around him, which should eventually happen.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Draymond is the heart of that team

Eh, that heart beat is pretty weak when Curry and Thompson are injured.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Luka and Giannis will both finish as top 12 all-time players.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Luka and Giannis will both finish as top 12 all-time players.

I can buy that but who are they replacing?