NBA Thread 2021-22 Season

[NineOneSeven]

 

[MikeSU02]

I can buy that but who are they replacing?

My biggest issue is slotting the guys I never saw play. Like, I know Oscar was unreal, but I have no idea where to put him. Same with Wilt and Russell. West, etc, too.

For instance, I love Hakeem and Shaq, but I can see Luka and Giannis bumping them if they are in someone's top 12 if their trajectories hold and they get the requisite titles.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I'm not going to cape for Harden. I don't like him.

My bigger point is that Luka is a stud. And on a trajectory to be an all-timer.

His team needs to be better around him, which should eventually happen.

Luka is amazing.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

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I give LeBron a huge amount of credit for winning when JR Smith was a key player. Never thought that would happen.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I'm not going to cape for Harden. I don't like him.

My bigger point is that Luka is a stud. And on a trajectory to be an all-timer.

His team needs to be better around him, which should eventually happen.

Agreed.

I hear all the accolades for Wiggins doing a good job on Luka and he has made things tough for him but you're probably pretty damn good when that guy still gets 40!!! Luka with a couple more pieces will win multiple championships

 

[cliftonparksufan]

The problem is bad ownership. Jeanie Buss isn't Dr. Buss.

There's no fix for bad ownership. Bad owners habitually make bad decisions. Overwhelming talent can be a bandaid. But that's really it.

The difference between the results the Kings get and the Lakers get is location of the franchise.

Yup. Look how bad the Clippers were for 20 years or whatever with bad ownership/leadership. And the Knicks. It's not easy being good for an extended time but some franchises have done it.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Yep - one of the traits of good leaders is identifying and acknowledging (and then fixing) wrong choices (or unplanned consequences, whatever you want to call it). Kudos for Griffin for that. No one is perfect, but the best people hit more than miss and learn from mistakes to get better.

Couldn't agree more with what you wrote.

and the other thing is, when you are a GM and acquire a certain war chest of 1st round picks, sooner or later you have to put them to work, whether it be in the draft but more importantly for use in other trades to build the team and make them a formidable franchise. Too many times you see GM's given huge accolades for getting the picks but what do they do with them?

The protection of the Laker's pick 1-10 was crazy this year as to where the Pels were able to get the 8th pick. Out of the top 10 and it goes to Memphis as part of the Jonas/ Adams trade. Even Grif said they got lucky there but hey he made the deal and was forward thinking enough to get it in there as part of it.

Now they have to get the deal with Zion done over the summer or move on there. Interested to see how it plays out. I do think they will get something done with language much like the 2nd contract that Embid signed with the sixers, if not it could get interesting

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Wolves get their guy. Equity piece as well. WOW

 

[Melancer46]

Peak Harden? You mean MVP, 1st Team All NBA six out of seven years? Guy who was one hamstring on CP3 away from likely winning a title?

Luka has arguably had the best start of a career of all time. The big difference between the two is that Luka can play on ball D for guys that aren't dynamic drivers and on offense he has a back down game and can play back to the basket.

He can also play off ball better. Harden wouldn't move without the ball. Luka can play off ball and has done it pre NBA.

The other difference is he's come through in huge playoff games against very tough teams (Clips w/ PG13 and Kawhi; 64-win Suns team) and is scoring at the level of MJ in the playoffs, basically.

I get that they are comparable, but Luka through his first four years is much more accomplished than Harden. He's about to get his third straight All NBA First Team. If he had a legit second player and someone who could functionally play center, the Mavs would be favored to win the title right now.

I agree for the most part, but we saw in OKC that Harden was really good off ball too until he decided he didn’t want to be anymore. I’m not really sure Luka is any different in that regard. He (rightly) wants the ball in his hands pretty much at all times.

I think Luka is both a better passer and defender than Peak Harden though and Luka has also just been insane in the playoffs vs. Harden’s relatively consistent struggles.

 

[Melancer46]

Luka and Giannis will both finish as top 12 all-time players.

Still a long way to go in their careers. I don’t think we can just take longevity for granted. But they’re definitely on track for top 12 all time IMO.

 

[MikeSU02]

I agree for the most part, but we saw in OKC that Harden was really good off ball too until he decided he didn’t want to be anymore. I’m not really sure Luka is any different in that regard. He (rightly) wants the ball in his hands pretty much at all times.

I think Luka is both a better passer and defender than Peak Harden though and Luka has also just been insane in the playoffs vs. Harden’s relatively consistent struggles.

Yeah, I think the one huge difference is that Luka wants the challenge where it seems like Harden is just happy as it stands.

I think a lot of what Luka is "better" than Harden at is a lot of stuff that just requires effort... Which, again, I think Harden is happy to punt on.

 

[OrangeDW]

18-1 start? This series is drunk.

 

[Orangezoo]

18-1 start? This series is drunk.

Lol it really is.

 

[OrangeDW]

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The “he didn’t win until he got Pippen” people are the absolute worst. I hate stupid sports fans.

 

[samspann1]

Good lord, what happened to Big Baby?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Good lord, what happened to Big Baby?

He ate everything. He ain’t no baby no more.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Peak Harden? You mean MVP, 1st Team All NBA six out of seven years? Guy who was one hamstring on CP3 away from likely winning a title?

Luka has arguably had the best start of a career of all time. The big difference between the two is that Luka can play on ball D for guys that aren't dynamic drivers and on offense he has a back down game and can play back to the basket.

He can also play off ball better. Harden wouldn't move without the ball. Luka can play off ball and has done it pre NBA.

The other difference is he's come through in huge playoff games against very tough teams (Clips w/ PG13 and Kawhi; 64-win Suns team) and is scoring at the level of MJ in the playoffs, basically.

I get that they are comparable, but Luka through his first four years is much more accomplished than Harden. He's about to get his third straight All NBA First Team. If he had a legit second player and someone who could functionally play center, the Mavs would be favored to win the title right now.

Luka and vintage Harden are each highly skilled ball dominant players who are difficult to stop one on one...yet don't have enough help. One was hated and considered a fraud...

 

[STEVEHOLT]

My point was that if EVRYBODY was healthy, no one would be saying that Harden was a CP3 injury away from going to the finals. Its a misleading narrative for people who want to argue that he is a championship player. He isn't. Also, if CP3 was healthy, they likely still lose, because CP3 is gonna CP3 in the big game, anyway.
Now, if you want to say GS is a Klay Thompson injury away from having another ring, I will buy that all day long.

Harden had no help as a Rocket almost every single year. Now he's crappy. But in his peak, give him the players Durant had around him at GS and see how that would work out. The entire "championship player" concept is bs and more a product of place and time than anything. I guess Luke Longley should be in the Hall

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Nba playoffs have been , by in large , crap. Most games total blowouts .. and the teams often alternating the roll of the alpha .. gotta be mental

 

[MikeSU02]

Luka and vintage Harden are each highly skilled ball dominant players who are difficult to stop one on one...yet don't have enough help. One was hated and considered a fraud...

Harden didn’t try on defense and wouldn’t move without the ball. He also literally just stopped trying on two teams in 13 months.

That’s why he’s hated.

Luka can play on ball D ok. He will move off ball and is happy to bail out his teammates that get stuck at end of the shot clock.

Harden is a HoFer, no question. But Luka is better.

 

[MikeSU02]

Harden had no help as a Rocket almost every single year. Now he's crappy. But in his peak, give him the players Durant had around him at GS and see how that would work out. The entire "championship player" concept is bs and more a product of place and time than anything. I guess Luke Longley should be in the Hall

You can argue Steph is one of the three most valuable players of all time. Harden would absolutely have a chip if he played with Steph.

KD going to a 73 win team was ridiculous and only occurred bc of the cap spike.

But KD is arguably the best scorer of all time.

And if you want to talk about no help, Jalen Brunson is the second best player Luka has.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Harden didn’t try on defense and wouldn’t move without the ball. He also literally just stopped trying on two teams in 13 months.

That’s why he’s hated.

Luka can play on ball D ok. He will move off ball and is happy to bail out his teammates that get stuck at end of the shot clock.

Harden is a HoFer, no question. But Luka is better.

I have nothing to back it up and just my opinion but I think Luka cares about winning a lot more than Harden does too. Like I said, just my opinion

 

[Newhouser]

Harden didn’t try on defense and wouldn’t move without the ball. He also literally just stopped trying on two teams in 13 months.

That’s why he’s hated.

Luka can play on ball D ok. He will move off ball and is happy to bail out his teammates that get stuck at end of the shot clock.

Harden is a HoFer, no question. But Luka is better.

Yeah until Luka quits on 2 teams I'm giving him the nod. Though I think they both have the same off-season trainer.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If the Warriors win the chip I have a feeling people are going to go after KD’s legacy.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Yeah until Luka quits on 2 teams I'm giving him the nod. Though I think they both have the same off-season trainer.

true but one is 23 the other is 32. Luka will most likely right that ship at some point. Little different in Europe as well. It's the one piece that Luka really gets a lot of flack for