NC State Postgame Thoughts

[kcsu]

I think this is the answer. Red basically said that in his presser.

Bell has a weak handle, isn't as good on D or at rebounding as Q. Points were not needed as much at that point in the game so Red went with Cope

 

[IthacaMatt]

offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency are essentially the same issue...they weight every single possession equally...so winning by 12 will ALWAYS be worse than winning by 20 even if the NET only considers margin up until 10...its misleading imo

let the foot off the gas in the 2nd half and those metrics plummet needlessly

this young team gets a decent lead and loses focus DRASTICALLY

its effecting the teams reankings big time imo

You said this about a dozen times in this one thread so far. We get it.

 

[Cuse181]

Bell has a weak handle, isn't as good on D or at rebounding as Q. Points were not needed as much at that point in the game so Red went with Cope

Offense stalled after he left and NC state started scoring. We can all talk in circles if we want but at the end of the day the team performed poorly with bell on the bench. That won’t happen every game but it did this game.

 

[shandeezy7]

He doesn't put himself in great position to score. His teammates can only do so much.

I'm sure confidence isn't helping him right now, but really watch him on the offensive end. Watch his feet. Watch how infrequently he catches a pass with his feet square to the basket. If you haven't picked up on it, you're going to be surprised.

I've never seen a perimeter player in our uniform make the game as difficult for himself as he does. Mechanically he's a mess.

I think the footwork issue is fixable, but not likely in season at this point. Even once he gets that figured out, he's not suddenly going to consistently hit double figure points against ACC competition.

Even if he got all that figured out, his jump shot form is absolutely atrocious and very much unlikely to be salvaged mid-season. I really hate to pile on the kid, because he plays hard and he does do a couple things fairly well, but it’s essentially 4 on 5 on the offensive end when he’s in the game at this point. 3 on 5 if he’s in there at the same time as Hima or Carey. We can’t really afford that.

 

[br801]

One thing Carey has that you can’t teach is a motor that doesn’t stop. We never have to worry about him not playing hard. He definitely gave Burns problems when he was in. I think the game is a bit fast for him right now, but you can see some ability in there. He definitely has more upside than Hima.

I would hope he has more upside than a guy who unfortunately isn't healthy enough to play more than a few minutes in a couple games each month.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Even if he got all that figured out, his jump shot form is absolutely atrocious and very much unlikely to be salvaged mid-season. I really hate to pile on the kid, because he plays hard and he does do a couple things fairly well, but it’s essentially 4 on 5 on the offensive end when he’s in the game at this point. 3 on 5 if he’s in there at the same time as Hima or Carey. We can’t really afford that.

Yeah, we're seeing the same things unfortunately.

I really do think there's a halo effect from Buddy for some when it comes to Taylor.

He was billed as Buddy with the sports package (athleticism).

That's... not the guy we're seeing out there. At all.

The footwork's bad and his shooting form is all over the place. He's shooting like 30% from the floor right now. I'd like to think that's not who he really is, but we're pretty deep in the season and he's played a lot of minutes and taken enough shots that his percentages could tick up, but probably not drastically.

 

[FireballPhil]

Yeah, I'm losing faith in Taylor, because he seems to be losing faith in himself. I think he should probably transfer this summer.

Sadly, I am agreeing with you. He hasn't changed offensively from last year at all. I understand part of it is the team hasn't been working to get him the ball, they have been developing-successfully- JJ and Judah mainly. They have also been working in getting Bell some shots, and having Benny rotating close to the basket for some easy put backs. I like Taylor's defense for the most part, but offensively it is basically 4 on 5 ball right now. I don't care if it is a mid-range shot or a three, he has to start taking and making a few of these shots sooner rather than later. If he doesn't get hungry for the ball, for the points, then he needs to leave after the season. Go somewhere without all the pressure and become the player we all know he is capable of becoming.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Yeah, we're seeing the same things unfortunately.

I really do think there's a halo effect from Buddy for some when it comes to Taylor.

He was billed as Buddy with the sports package (athleticism).

That's... not the guy we're seeing out there. At all.

The footwork's bad and his shooting form is all over the place. He's shooting like 30% from the floor right now. I'd like to think that's not who he really is, but we're pretty deep in the season and he's played a lot of minutes and taken enough shots that his percentages could tick up, but probably not drastically.

Competition stepped up and he fell back.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Competition stepped up and he fell back.

Here are the ACC players who have more than 25 minutes played in conference (weeding out the walk-ons) and a PER of less than 5. Taylor ranks second in minutes (him and Rohde are the only two with roles on a team). Uber prospect Big Peter Carey leads this group in personal fouls despite playing the fewest minutes.

 

[CousCuse]

Here are the ACC players who have more than 25 minutes played in conference (weeding out the walk-ons) and a PER of less than 5. Taylor ranks second in minutes (him and Rohde are the only two with roles on a team). Uber prospect Big Peter Carey leads this group in personal fouls despite playing the fewest minutes.

View attachment 237060

Carey is the only center in that group. As soon as you put a freshman center in, the opposing team is going to attack him and he has to try to stop a bigger man down low which is all physical play, and they will always call the fouls against the frosh. But you do what you do well, propagandandize!

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Here are the ACC players who have more than 25 minutes played in conference (weeding out the walk-ons) and a PER of less than 5. Taylor ranks second in minutes (him and Rohde are the only two with roles on a team). Uber prospect Big Peter Carey leads this group in personal fouls despite playing the fewest minutes.

View attachment 237060

Yikes. Reinforces everything we’ve been saying about JT. Red’s a little blind right now

 

[br801]

Carey is the only center in that group. As soon as you put a freshman center in, the opposing team is going to attack him and he has to try to stop a bigger man down low which is all physical play, and they will always call the fouls against the frosh. But you do what you do well, propagandandize!

He's still the center of last resort for this team. Red had the luxury of stealing a few minutes with him against NC State because he had a nice lead to play with. If Hima can go, he'll play of ahead Carey, and Williams will get more minutes at center for the balance of the season.

 

[CousCuse]

He's still the center of last resort for this team. Red had the luxury of stealing a few minutes with him against NC State because he had a nice lead to play with. If Hima can go, he'll play of ahead Carey, and Williams will get more minutes at center for the balance of the season.

I don't know about Hima, he has looked terrible every time he plays lately. There are going to be games where the refs are handing out fouls like candy and they could have every guy down low in foul trouble. And I like the way he moves, like a cat, not some oaf.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Carey is the only center in that group. As soon as you put a freshman center in, the opposing team is going to attack him and he has to try to stop a bigger man down low which is all physical play, and they will always call the fouls against the frosh. But you do what you do well, propagandandize!

Both played for Syracuse.
Player A
7 G 40 MP, Per 100 Poss: 8.8 TRB, 5.9 Assists, 2.9 Points 7.5 PF, 101.7 ORtg, 113.7 DRtg
Player B
4 G 29 MP, Per 100 Poss: 11.3 TRB, 1.9 Assists, 3.8 Points 17 PF, 64.2 ORtg, 107.7 DRtg

ETA:
Player C
5 G 10 MP, Per 100 Poss: 5.5 TRB, 0.0 Assists, 0.0 Points 11 PF, 0.0 ORtg, 108 DRtg

 

[DoctorBombay]

Carey is the only center in that group. As soon as you put a freshman center in, the opposing team is going to attack him and he has to try to stop a bigger man down low which is all physical play, and they will always call the fouls against the frosh. But you do what you do well, propagandandize!

It's the rare freshman center who is NOT foul prone. Future OBE DPY Fab Melo, fouled like there was no tomorrow and it drove JB nuts.
That can be said for EVERY young big man who's played at SU, yet for some unfathomable reason, Peter Carey gets a shorter leash? Interesting.

 

[DoctorBombay]

He's still the center of last resort for this team. Red had the luxury of stealing a few minutes with him against NC State because he had a nice lead to play with. If Hima can go, he'll play of ahead Carey, and Williams will get more minutes at center for the balance of the season.

This^^^
He no longer has the luxury of sitting and waiting, he has to play now. You get what you can from him, and hope it's enough in a game by game situation.
To expect the 3rd or 4th C on the team to come in and be Anthony Davis, is just being silly.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Carey has a bright future. He’s only a redshirt freshman. He’s athletic, has good hands and runs the court. Once the game slows down and he adds 20 pounds, he will be pretty good.

 

[Fly Rodder]

It's the rare freshman center who is NOT foul prone. Future OBE DPY Fab Melo, fouled like there was no tomorrow and it drove JB nuts.
That can be said for EVERY young big man who's played at SU, yet for some unfathomable reason, Peter Carey gets a shorter leash? Interesting.

That's what metrics and statistics are for controlled for minutes by using per 100 possessions instead. You can actually look them up and compare them.

Fab Melo and Peter Carey have zero similarity other than that they are tall and their position was Center. I posted two guys above who are actually pretty similar.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Carey has a bright future. He’s only a redshirt freshman. He’s athletic, has good hands and runs the court. Once the game slows down and he adds 20 pounds, he will be pretty good.

Sure, and as soon Cuffe grows another 10 inches, he'll be a great center too.

 

[DoctorBombay]

That's what metrics and statistics are for controlled for minutes by using per 100 possessions instead. You can actually look them up and compare them.

Fab Melo and Peter Carey have zero similarity other than that they are tall and their position was Center. I posted two guys above who are actually pretty similar.

I used Fab Melo as an example of a big man who started shakily, as again MOST big men do, and eventually turned out ok, indeed better than ok.
We can agree to disagree - you think he's a waste of space, while I and many others believe he has the POTENTIAL to be good. At the very least, I'm willing to give the kid a chance and NOT summarily write him off.
In time, we'll see who's right.

 

[kingtidge]

Sadly, I am agreeing with you. He hasn't changed offensively from last year at all. I understand part of it is the team hasn't been working to get him the ball, they have been developing-successfully- JJ and Judah mainly. They have also been working in getting Bell some shots, and having Benny rotating close to the basket for some easy put backs. I like Taylor's defense for the most part, but offensively it is basically 4 on 5 ball right now. I don't care if it is a mid-range shot or a three, he has to start taking and making a few of these shots sooner rather than later. If he doesn't get hungry for the ball, for the points, then he needs to leave after the season. Go somewhere without all the pressure and become the player we all know he is capable of becoming.

He's is not comfortable and the game has not slowed-down for him... in fact his play lacks confidence, purpose, and is very erratic... like a player struggling to handle the pace of the games in the ACC.

Maybe he needs another year and he will get that leap in his junior year where things click, but it's also quite possible he's simply not a P5 caliber player and needs to transfer and drop down to a mid-major league.

He seems like a great kid regardless, so I hope it works out for him, whichever path...

 

[CousCuse]

He's is not comfortable and the game has not slowed-down for him... in fact his play lacks confidence, purpose, and is very erratic... like a player struggling to handle the pace of the games in the ACC.

Maybe he needs another year and will get that leap in his junior year where things click, but it's also quite possible he's

simply not a P5 caliber player and needs to transfer and drop down to a mid-major league.

He seems like a great kid regardless, so I hope it works out for him, whichever path...

Defenses are not leaving him by himself. The scouting report hasn't changed. His defense and rebounding are excellent so as long as defenses aren't leaving him open to shoot while covering other guys, I think Red will keep things as they are.

 

[kingtidge]

Defenses are not leaving him by himself. The scouting report hasn't changed. His defense and rebounding are excellent so as long as defenses aren't leaving him open to shoot while covering other guys, I think Red will keep things as they are.

Just curious... what is the scouting report on him?

 

[CousCuse]

Just curious... what is the scouting report on him?

He has had some good shooting games earlier in the season, enough so that coaches seem to be telling the guy defending him that you can't let him have a totally open look. He's the 4th option so if he gets the ball and it's a contested shot, he passes it, which as I see it, is every time. Do you want him or another guy taking shots or do you want Mintz, Bell, Starling?

 

[kingtidge]

He has had some good shooting games earlier in the season, enough so that coaches seem to be telling the guy defending him that you can't let him have a totally open look. He's the 4th option so if he gets the ball and it's a contested shot, he passes it, which as I see it, is every time. Do you want him or another guy taking shots or do you want Mintz, Bell, Starling?

He simply can't pass it every time.

Defenders will double others if they know he won't shoot (and that's happening.)

His footwork is all over the place and he's not squaring up in spots, so when he receives the ball and tries to turn, the defender is already on him... and the few times when he is squared, he's going up with legs part and the motion is not fluid. I really hope the coaches help him figure it out, but it's also OK to say at this point that he might not be good enough.

We need better if he can't do it and that means portal or commit flip.