NCAA threatens to boot the whole state of California if bill becomes law

[longislandcuse]

Why does he have to wait for next year?
How does that hurt the NCAA one iota if State Farm says you are in school now people will be watching your games NOW we want you in a commercial to sell insurance.

This doesn't hurt the system right now. Its the NCAA treating the players like chattel. Let them make money from outside sources.

Ok, so they’re basically pros. Never mind the fact this completely ruins college sports for pretty much everyone outside of 20 football schools. That’s fine if that doesn’t bother you because I know you’re speaking purely as an advocate for the players...

Can I, the coach, cut a schollied player if he isn’t what I thought he was? Keeps getting injured? Dude has an agent and endorsement deal but can’t get on the field. I need that roster spot next year. Can I revoke his scholly?

This is what Mark Cuban is touching on.. How far does this go.

We basically have a pro-league with about 20 universities participating.

Eventually the aura of rooting for your college wears off when the pageantry is gone and it’s just a select professional league.

Just create a D-League for football that no one will care about because that’s where this is headed under this.

 

[rrlbees]

These actions being the creation of the legislation? The running of faux academic programs like UNC? The blatant disregard for everything right and just at Penn State? The blatant unbalanced, money grabbing self-serving leadership of the NCAA? The smart but shameless infiltration of collegiate athletics by apparel companies? The seediness of the AAU scene and the street agents and the parents and players who take advantage of the bags that are out there? IMHO the most regrettable action is that the NCAA / and its member institutions refused to adapt to the times, and held out to a dated and false mission statement. As Sonny Vaccaro told Bryce Jordan and the Knight Commission elitist many years ago, the schools "sold their souls and will continue selling them."

Really???? That’s what the discussion is about???

 

[maxxyz]

College basketball and football are big time money makers for their colleges. The players should have a right to make some money for outside sources while the colleges only provide them an education and other costs of living.

I think the colleges make out nicely. This bill doesn't force profits of those schools be shared. That is the road that kills college football and basketball.
The scare tactics of the NCAA are they want the status quo. They like the status quo because they are making money off the backs of the NCAAT TV contract. And take the risks of a professional athlete.

The way the federal Title IX laws are written won’t allow for increasing the stipend on a single sport. It has to be equal among all sports. The only way currently to get around this is to stop making them students, and instead as employees. No scholarship, just a paycheck. Then they can get paid what the market will bear, and be able to make money off of sponsorships. And take the risks of a professional athlete.

 

[qdawgg]

We aren't going to be more competitve because of this law. This law is about players not being chattel of their schools. They can make their own money from their likeness/endorsements and keep their eligibility. The fact they can't do that now is bullchit.

Why can Nick Saban do commercials but Tua can't?

I'm confused, I agreed with all of that.

 

[Moontan]

Donors at various schools will be competing against each other for 5*, and some 4*, players.

“Here’s the contract, Billy. If you enroll at State we will pay you $100,000 per year to use your likeness. This is an exclusive deal, outside of apparel.”

He’ll pitch that at Tech only to have a booster there pony up $125k per year. Etc., etc., etc..

Some kids will make million$.

I’m looking forward to seeing the star UGA RB on billboards for a car dealer all around Atlanta.

Even after going 12-1, it’ll be tough for Dino to attract 5* talent in such an environment.

 

[Scooch]

Out of sincere curiosity... for those who are saying that this legislation will bring about the ruin of college athletics, would you prefer that current system is kept in place with no changes? If you think changes should be made, what are they?

Needless to say, there are many (myself included) who think the current model of collegiate athletics is terribly unjust. I'm not suggesting that this law makes it all better. Hell, it might make some things worse, I totally get that. But I don't see how we can continue down the current path without addressing the crazy inequality that exists.

 

[orangecuse]

Donors at various will be competing against each other for 5*, and some 4*, players.

“Here’s the contract, Billy. If you enroll at State we will pay you $100,000 per year to use your likeness. This is an exclusive deal, outside of apparel.”

He’ll pitch that at Tech only to have a booster there pony up $125k per year. Etc., etc., etc..

Some kids will make million$.

I’m looking forward to seeing the star UGA RB on billboards for a car dealer all around Atlanta.

Even after going 12-1, it’ll be tough for Dino to attract 5* talent in such an environment.

Absolutely...the rich will simply just get richer. As it is, and for the most part has been for ever/decades, SU rarely has ever gotten 5* talent. Nothing will change here other than now they never will...so just about status quo for us there. In regards to 4* (which is where I believe Dino's realizes is his best rated recruits here will ever be) recruits, landing these type just got monumentally more difficult as per the example you just laid out. Syracuse does not have the amount of local businesses, dealerships, regional growth, sustainability, etc. that are willing to pony up a bunch of cash (endorsing players, etc.) for the mere sake that they are doing so for the 'love of the program.' In Syracuse, it would be more business related/decision-esque, return on investment. Apples to Oranges compared to many other geographic locations across the country, where their "flagship" schools go hand and hand with breathing.

 

[longislandcuse]

Out of sincere curiosity... for those who are saying that this legislation will bring about the ruin of college athletics, would you prefer that current system is kept in place with no changes? If you think changes should be made, what are they?

Needless to say, there are many (myself included) who think the current model of collegiate athletics is terribly unjust. I'm not suggesting that this law makes it all better. Hell, it might make some things worse, I totally get that. But I don't see how we can continue down the current path without addressing the crazy inequality that exists.

I honestly think you need to revise/get rid of Title IX.

Not trying to be a jerk but as a practical matter that’s the only way to save this, IMO.

Revenue sports get paid a large stipend/salary, other sports stay as is.

Revenue sports fund those other sports anyway. If this brings the ruin of college athletics, there’s nothing to fund them anyway.

 

[Scooch]

I honestly think you need to revise/get rid of Title IX.

Not trying to be a jerk but as a practical matter that’s the only way to save this, IMO.

Revenue sports get paid a large stipend/salary, other sports stay as is.

Revenue sports fund those other sports anyway.

What does that revision look like? Title IX is broad, what do you want to change?

 

[longislandcuse]

What does that revision look like? Title IX is broad, what do you want to change?

Whatever it is that allows for disproportionate treatment of student athletes aka pay/treat differently the athletes of sports that bring in revenue.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Out of sincere curiosity... for those who are saying that this legislation will bring about the ruin of college athletics, would you prefer that current system is kept in place with no changes? If you think changes should be made, what are they?

Needless to say, there are many (myself included) who think the current model of collegiate athletics is terribly unjust. I'm not suggesting that this law makes it all better. Hell, it might make some things worse, I totally get that. But I don't see how we can continue down the current path without addressing the crazy inequality that exists.

Just to clarify - inequity for whom?- Between players? Between teams? Between universities? Between conferences? Between different sports? I guess I just don’t understand what kind of inequity paying them helps.

 

[Scooch]

Just to clarify - inequity for whom?- Between players? Between teams? Between universities? Between conferences? Between different sports? I guess I just don’t understand what kind of inequity paying them helps.

At a fundamental level, I believe the trade of a scholarship for athlete commitment is not nearly as equitable as it once was, in purely financial terms. I'm not going to diminish the value of a scholarship, needless to say it is a golden ticket for many families, and the cost of attending college is sky high. I'm just suggesting that when a college makes tens of millions of dollars from TV rights, merchandise sales, etc., that the relative equity has gotten out of whack. Was Zion Williamson worth more than $65K to Duke last year? Was the money Duke made because of him worth more than that? I believe it is. One guy's opinion, is all.

 

[longislandcuse]

At a fundamental level, I believe the trade of a scholarship for athlete commitment is not nearly as equitable as it once was, in purely financial terms. I'm not going to diminish the value of a scholarship, needless to say it is a golden ticket for many families, and the cost of attending college is sky high. I'm just suggesting that when a college makes tens of millions of dollars from TV rights, merchandise sales, etc., that the relative equity has gotten out of whack. Was Zion Williamson worth more than $65K to Duke last year? Was the money Duke made because of him worth more than that? I believe it is. One guy's opinion, is all.

I don’t know that outliers should be used as advocacy to do one thing or another.

Zion was an outlier. He could play in the D-League and there would’ve been interest.

How about Steph Curry, since he’s so outspoken about this. Was he worth more to Davidson or was Davidson, as a vehicle, worth more to him?

How about Draymond Green. Not exactly anyone of note without that Michigan State jersey.

Football gets even more university dependent because Tua and Trevor sure as hell aren’t getting Bama/Clemson exposure in some start up league. Nobody is going to follow those two there outside of the occasional draftnik NFL diehard.

 

[orangecuse]

Out of sincere curiosity... for those who are saying that this legislation will bring about the ruin of college athletics, would you prefer that current system is kept in place with no changes? If you think changes should be made, what are they?

Needless to say, there are many (myself included) who think the current model of collegiate athletics is terribly unjust. I'm not suggesting that this law makes it all better. Hell, it might make some things worse, I totally get that. But I don't see how we can continue down the current path without addressing the crazy inequality that exists.

I would increase the stipends for the revenue sports, maybe having it tied in to how successful your school does; i.e., getting to a bowl game, advancement in NCAA tourney for hoops, etc. That, I realize, violates Title IX, so, that's an obvious significant dilemma.

Other than that, I share the sentiment as some others, no one is forcing these guys to go to college. They voluntarily choose to do so, and in doing so, agree to the stipulations. They are 100% free to go a different route, G league, overseas, semi-pro football, etc. There are many times during NFL broadcasts that players in those early game TV introductions say they are from XYZ high school, etc. So, there are other avenues to get to their ultimate goal of being a professional athlete in their chosen sport.

The universities (if these guys sign out of high school) affords them the platform of a lifetime to showcase/display their talents in front of millions and millions...with absolutely zero overhead to boot. Afterwards, using this incredible vehicle that the school affords them, if their talent is worthy, will be set for 10 lifetimes.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Out of sincere curiosity... for those who are saying that this legislation will bring about the ruin of college athletics, would you prefer that current system is kept in place with no changes? If you think changes should be made, what are they?

Needless to say, there are many (myself included) who think the current model of collegiate athletics is terribly unjust. I'm not suggesting that this law makes it all better. Hell, it might make some things worse, I totally get that. But I don't see how we can continue down the current path without addressing the crazy inequality that exists.

I would like to see all other sports outside of football get a nice sized stipend. Besides men’s basketball, those sports are not minor leagues. Kids are actually there for an education. Since they have a demanding schedule and cannot have jobs, pay them the stipend.

College basketball should not be the minors either. Most kids don’t go pro. I would like to see the NBA allow high school kids to the D League. If a kid has a choice between Europe, the D League, and college then they cannot complain about money. They aren’t forced to go to college. I would also like to see higher academic standards for admissions/eligibility. That would further the ball players actually caring about education somewhat.

Football is and always will be the minor leagues. I would like to see the P5 split and then make players be student/employees. The players sign a five year contract and need a buy out to transfer or go to the NFL early. The G5 and lower devisions will use the regular system I mentioned above.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Let the D2 and D3 players make money on their likeness as well. Problem solved.

I actually think this opens up all kinds of doors for Olympic sport and lower division athletes.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Absolutely...the rich will simply just get richer. As it is, and for the most part has been for ever/decades, SU rarely has ever gotten 5* talent. Nothing will change here other than now they never will...so just about status quo for us there. In regards to 4* (which is where I believe Dino's realizes is his best rated recruits here will ever be) recruits, landing these type just got monumentally more difficult as per the example you just laid out. Syracuse does not have the amount of local businesses, dealerships, regional growth, sustainability, etc. that are willing to pony up a bunch of cash (endorsing players, etc.? for the mere sake that they are doing so for the 'love of the program.' In Syracuse, it would be more business related/decision-esque, return on investment. Apples to Oranges compared to many other geographic locations across the country, where their "flagship" schools go hand and hand with breathing.

The big thing you're missing - you talk about the rich getting richer from the institution with the sports program's perspective.

The perspective from the player that is not rich but able to get richer is very, very different, and to my eyes, the one that matters.

 

[orangecuse]

The big thing you're missing - you talk about the rich getting richer from the institution with the sports program's perspective.

The perspective from the player that is not rich but able to get richer is very, very different, and to my eyes, the one that matters.

I'm not missing that perspective, and I'm not being disagreeable with ones looking at it through those lenses. I am a fan of Syracuse University first and foremost, so, imo, if I think this will ultimately be detrimental to the program that I love and I am incredibly passionate about, that's what ultimately matters most to me.

 

[Scooch]

I don’t know that outliers should be used as advocacy to do one thing or another.

Zion was an outlier. He could play in the D-League and there would’ve been interest.

How about Steph Curry, since he’s so outspoken about this. Was he worth more to Davidson or was Davidson, as a vehicle, worth more to him?

How about Draymond Green. Not exactly anyone of note without that Michigan State jersey.

Football gets even more university dependent because Tua and Trevor sure as hell aren’t getting Bama/Clemson exposure in some start up league. Nobody is going to follow those two there outside of the occasional draftnik NFL diehard.

I would increase the stipends for the revenue sports, maybe having it tied in to how successful your school does; i.e., getting to a bowl game, advancement in NCAA tourney for hoops, etc. That, I realize, violates Title IX, so, that's an obvious significant dilemma.

Other than that, I share the sentiment as some others, no one is forcing these guys to go to college. They voluntarily choose to do so, and in doing so, agree to the stipulations. They are 100% free to go a different route, G league, overseas, semi-pro football, etc. There are many times during NFL broadcasts that players in those early game TV introductions say they are from XYZ high school, etc. So, there are other avenues to get to their ultimate goal of being a professional athlete in their chosen sport.

The universities (if these guys sign out of high school) affords them the platform of a lifetime to showcase/display their talents in front of millions and millions...with absolutely zero overhead to boot. Afterwards, using this incredible vehicle that the school affords them, if their talent is worthy, will be set for 10 lifetimes.

I would like to see all other sports outside of football get a nice sized stipend. Besides men’s basketball, those sports are not minor leagues. Kids are actually there for an education. Since they have a demanding schedule and cannot have jobs, pay them the stipend.

College basketball should not be the minors either. Most kids don’t go pro. I would like to see the NBA allow high school kids to the D League. If a kid has a choice between Europe, the D League, and college then they cannot complain about money. They aren’t forced to go to college. I would also like to see higher academic standards for admissions/eligibility. That would further the ball players actually caring about education somewhat.

Football is and always will be the minor leagues. I would like to see the P5 split and then make players be student/employees. The players sign a five year contract and need a buy out to transfer or go to the NFL early. The G5 and lower devisions will use the regular system I mentioned above.

I really appreciate the responses, sincerely. I'm the first to admit that I don't have all the answers, or some, or maybe any! So these reasoned approaches are illuminating to read.

I will note that I was leery of including my Zion example, because people do seize on the outlier nature of it.

I'm pretty uncomfortable with the "no one is forcing these guys to go to college" argument. To use an extreme analogy, no one forced 12 years olds to work in unsafe factories either, but as a society we determined that there was a need to regulate that system. Obviously no one is losing limbs in a thresher here. But telling a kid, essentially, to shut up and be grateful we give you anything, as an academic institution makes tens of millions in sports media money, while running advertisements using a players likeness, and possibly selling said kids jersey in the school bookstore... I liked what OitG said upthread, if Saban can make money doing AFLAC commercials, why can't Tua?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I really appreciate the responses, sincerely. I'm the first to admit that I don't have all the answers, or some, or maybe any! So these reasoned approaches are illuminating to read.

I will note that I was leery of including my Zion example, because people do seize on the outlier nature of it.

I'm pretty uncomfortable with the "no one is forcing these guys to go to college" argument. To use an extreme analogy, no one forced 12 years olds to work in unsafe factories either, but as a society we determined that there was a need to regulate that system. Obviously no one is losing limbs in a thresher here. But telling a kid, essentially, to shut up and be grateful we give you anything, as an academic institution makes tens of millions in sports media money, while running advertisements using a players likeness, and possibly selling said kids jersey in the school bookstore... I liked what OitG said upthread, if Saban can make money doing AFLAC commercials, why can't Tua?

Thanks, that wasn't me though.

But really - why?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm not missing that perspective, and I'm not being disagreeable with ones looking at it through those lenses. I am a fan of Syracuse University first and foremost, so, imo, if I think this will ultimately be detrimental to the program that I love and I am incredibly passionate about, that's what ultimately matters most to me.

I get it.

That said... the line of thinking you're talking about is part of the problem.

And people are saying they're ok taking money somebody could be making away from them because of the laundry they care most about.

We're really uncomfortable with that in other facets of life, but college sports, it's preferred.

It's bizarre.

 

[maxxyz]

I would increase the stipends for the revenue sports, maybe having it tied in to how successful your school does; i.e., getting to a bowl game, advancement in NCAA tourney for hoops, etc. That, I realize, violates Title IX, so, that's an obvious significant dilemma.

There is a reason there are federal Title IX laws. Changing them will take as much work and politcal clout as changing the gun laws.

College sports is all a marketing tool for the individual colleges. Games on TV, creating a fanbase, keeping alumna connected - It's not just sports. It's branding for the organization. Only the top 10% - 15% of schools make money overall from their athletic departments.

Why can't the top 32 football schools create their own league and make their players professional? Players aren't students and don't have to go to school. Pay them 100k a year, and let them make what they can for their likenesses. And if they underperform they can get cut. Seems to me this is the inevitable ending once this starts.

And honestly it wouldn't bother me that much. The players who have the talent and the drive to succeed get paid. The others can get a college education. But it seems unfeasible to treat 347 D1 schools exactly the same when they are wildly different.

 

[orangecuse]

I really appreciate the responses, sincerely. I'm the first to admit that I don't have all the answers, or some, or maybe any! So these reasoned approaches are illuminating to read.

I will note that I was leery of including my Zion example, because people do seize on the outlier nature of it.

I'm pretty uncomfortable with the "no one is forcing these guys to go to college" argument. To use an extreme analogy, no one forced 12 years olds to work in unsafe factories either, but as a society we determined that there was a need to regulate that system. Obviously no one is losing limbs in a thresher here. But telling a kid, essentially, to shut up and be grateful we give you anything, as an academic institution makes tens of millions in sports media money, while running advertisements using a players likeness, and possibly selling said kids jersey in the school bookstore... I liked what OitG said upthread, if Saban can make money doing AFLAC commercials, why can't Tua?

I realize you referencing "extreme" analogy, but honestly & diplomatically, it's not close to being anywhere on point. A 12 year old is a child for goodness sake, whereas most of these guys are 18 (legal adults) at the time they hit their respective schools. So, although green in regards to life, etc., they're not kids or children, and, whether you're comfortable or not with that connotation, they 100% are in no way, shape or form forced to go to college, it's 100% their free will and/or voluntary decision.

As typically the case, people's opinions will always vary based upon one's belief system and life experiences. It will certainly be interesting to see how this all unfolds moving forward.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I really appreciate the responses, sincerely. I'm the first to admit that I don't have all the answers, or some, or maybe any! So these reasoned approaches are illuminating to read.

I will note that I was leery of including my Zion example, because people do seize on the outlier nature of it.

I'm pretty uncomfortable with the "no one is forcing these guys to go to college" argument. To use an extreme analogy, no one forced 12 years olds to work in unsafe factories either, but as a society we determined that there was a need to regulate that system. Obviously no one is losing limbs in a thresher here. But telling a kid, essentially, to shut up and be grateful we give you anything, as an academic institution makes tens of millions in sports media money, while running advertisements using a players likeness, and possibly selling said kids jersey in the school bookstore... I liked what OitG said upthread, if Saban can make money doing AFLAC commercials, why can't Tua?

Most schools/sports aren’t bringing in tens of millions of media dollars outside of P5 football.

College athletics is supposed to be amateur students playing sport. You pretty much have that for non P5 football and all other sports. They get a SHI stadium load of benefits. It would take me a SWC length post to list everything. If you add a $5000 year stipend for each athlete, they are more than getting fully compensated.

I would also consider making all freshmen walk ons. You need to get into school on your own. Then earn a scholarship for the rest of your career. Coaches can still push admissions to take kids into school, but it will be fewer kids. It will also force kids to actually try in high school, which only benefits them.

Football is a different animal. Give them different rules and pay them, especially with the injury risk.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Most schools/sports aren’t bringing in tens of millions of media dollars outside of P5 football.

College athletics is supposed to be amateur students playing sport. You pretty much have that for non P5 football and all other sports. They get a SHI stadium load of benefits. It would take me a SWC length post to list everything. If you add a $5000 year stipend for each athlete, they are more than getting fully compensated.

I would also consider making all freshmen walk ons. You need to get into school on your own. Then earn a scholarship for the rest of your career. Coaches can still push admissions to take kids into school, but it will be fewer kids. It will also force kids to actually try in high school, which only benefits them.

Football is a different animal. Give them different rules and pay them, especially with the injury risk.

I gave you a like for Shi stadium load of benefits.

Didn't love the rest of the ideas for the most part, but that line was good and deserved a like.