NCAA threatens to boot the whole state of California if bill becomes law

[CuseOnly]

High school students can already have jobs. NCAA athletes can’t.

Not if that job is paid by a booster trying to direct that kid to a certain college...

 

[Cusefan0307]

Not if that job is paid by a booster trying to direct that kid to a certain college...

NCAA athletes can't do either.

 

[RandomGuy]

Of course there are perfections in the current NCAA rules. There's bound to be.

But the NCAA is trying to maintain a level playing field because that's what the majority of their members want.

That's why the current rules exist. Pointing out individual cases where an individual was restrained doesn't mean the basic idea against professionalism is wrong.

Involvement by politicians won't help. They'll get the exposure and the and let the NCAA manage all the problems they have created.

I think this conversation would be helped of people were required to use the term College Presidents" instead of "NCAA". All the NCAA does is what the college president s tell it to do.

I agree that the government more often messes things up.

In regards to labor law, they've definitely done some things right. Child labor, worker exploition, slavery, discrimination, monopolies, etc. Henry Fords doubling of wages coming with a surrendering of personal freedoms. A "police force" that would check on workers to make sure they weren't drinking or gambling. That their homes were clean, and they went to church on Sundays, etc. Hitlers inspiration for the SS(although to be clear, Fords antisemitism likely played a part)

There are clear instances in our free market where the winners have gone too far. That's the question, here. Public sentiment believes the NCAA has gone too far. I understand you feel differently. That's fine.

Unlike other apprenticeships, the NCAA athlete has a tiny chance of actually getting a professional job. If they're able to earn a small amount off of their small window of value, I'm all for it. I believe a free market should exist for that.

 

[Alsacs]

The United States handles youth athletics completely different than Europe or the rest of the world.
In Europe the professional teams have academics for young athletes. They pay for their training and education.
The team gives them everything and they own your rights till your 18.

In the US the professional sports leagues don’t have academies.
Since baseball is exempt from anti-trust they do the minor league system.

Canada has junior hockey leagues.


The NCAA is all about protecting colleges from cost certainty and be a free minor league for the other major revenue sports.

Non revenue sports and revenue sports should be regulated differently just like the P5 has autonomy.

 

[Hoo's That]

You've got some misconceptions.

The United States handles youth athletics completely different than Europe or the rest of the world.
In Europe the professional teams have academics for young athletes. They pay for their training and education.
The team gives them everything and they own your rights till your 18.

In the US the professional sports leagues don’t have academies.

The MLS has academies, probably based on what other countries do.

Since baseball is exempt from anti-trust they do the minor league system.

The minor league system of baseball is totally unrelated to the antitrust exemption.

Canada has junior hockey leagues.

That's just like baseball's minor league system.

The NCAA is all about protecting colleges from cost certainty

How? Please give examples of which rules are specifically designed to cut everybody's costs, rather than preventing Bama from having 30 "volunteer assistants"/paid assistant coaches while everyone else can't afford that many.

and be a free minor league for the other major revenue sports.

This part is totally bass ackwards. The onus is really on the NBA and NFL, not the NCAA. Those leagues choose not to have effective minor league systems like baseball because they have the NCAA independently providing one to them for free. College basketball and college football predate both professional leagues.

Non revenue sports and revenue sports should be regulated differently just like the P5 has autonomy.

Each sport is basically run independently now. For example, what D-1 lacrosse decides to do with their tournament has no effect on what D-1AA football, D-1 soccer, or D-1 field hockey does with theirs. IIRC hockey and gymnastics have their own eligibility rules separate from every other sport's.

 

[Alsacs]

You've got some misconceptions.

The MLS has academies, probably based on what other countries do.


The minor league system of baseball is totally unrelated to the antitrust exemption.


That's just like baseball's minor league system.

How? Please give examples of which rules are specifically designed to cut everybody's costs, rather than preventing Bama from having 30 "volunteer assistants"/paid assistant coaches while everyone else can't afford that many.

This part is totally bass ackwards. The onus is really on the NBA and NFL, not the NCAA. Those leagues choose not to have effective minor league systems like baseball because they have the NCAA independently providing one to them for free. College basketball and college football predate both professional leagues.

Each sport is basically run independently now. For example, what D-1 lacrosse decides to do with their tournament has no effect on what D-1AA football, D-1 soccer, or D-1 field hockey does with theirs. IIRC hockey and gymnastics have their own eligibility rules separate from every other sport's.

Your opinion is your opinion. I am going to change it. As you won’t mine.

The athletes deserve to the ability to profit from their own likeness and market.

Chit like this.

UCF kicker forced to choose between college football and YouTube channel

UCF kicker Donald De La Haye has been around video all his life.

www.tampabay.com

The NCAA shouldn’t give two craps if this kid makes money off advertising.
The current system is a joke to the people that subsidize the system.

If the NCAA lost the revenue from the men’s college tournament the institution would barely break even and would require the institutions keep
It afloat with real money dues.

 

[RandomGuy]

In the Alston vs. NCAA ruling(2019), the judge ruled that the NCAA has failed to define the term amateurism.

The over simplified version:

"They are amateurs because we dont pay them."

"Why dont you pay them?"

"Because they're amateurs."

Until that is overturned, the amateur model does not pass legal muster.

Here's from the national sponsor of a similar bill. Yes. Its political grandstanding.

Walker: “NCAA Has Arbitrarily Set a Sham Definition of Amateurism to Strip College Athletes of Rights”

For far too long, the NCAA has arbitrarily set a sham definition of amateurism to strip college athletes of the rights to their own names and self-worth, only promising to create do-nothing commissions when others highlight their exploitation. I am thankful the Governor of California has signed...

walker.house.gov

"we are introducing legislation that won’t cost the NCAA or our schools a single dollar, while empowering college athletes with the same opportunities that every American should have in a free-market."

 

[rrlbees]

If you support the NCAA in this bill it’s because you don’t give a damn about the athletes you care about your team.

That’s a BS statement.

 

[RandomGuy]

The endorsements and television $$ began destroying the amateurism model in the early 1980's.

Example. The highest paid coach in 1982 was Bear Bryant, with a university paid salary of $104,000.(the rest was TV $$) That's $276,500 in todays $$. Expensive, but he was worth it.(Sherrill $95k ($252k today)-Switzer $48k($127k today)

In 2019, there are at least 25 coaches making, $3,725,000 more than Bryant. While I applaud their ability to earn a great living, it exists because they followed a professional model, blurring the lines of amateurism.

It has resulted in huge profit taking at every level of university athletic departments. (As well as bloated expenses)

The model of amateurism was destroyed by the Universities, themselves.

 

[Crusty]

The NCAA just blinked.

Emmert told the Star leaders in the NCAA are not opposed to finding "an appropriate way" to open the door for some form of compensation for athletes, but a completely unregulated market is "not acceptable."

 

[TheCusian]

Either you haven't read Qdawgs post that I was reacting to or you are unable to understand what he is saying.

In that post he specifically talks about "redistribution" from the rich schools.


And they’ll have to manage the unintended consequences and abuses that come along with it.

The politicians will move on the their next effort to gain exposure, win votes through symbolic action and collect all the graft they can for themselves, family members and friends.

Parts of my family were in NJ State politics. I know how it works.

They will step in if there are other abuses and issues that the governing body can’t or won’t handle. It’s how it’s supposed to work.

 

[RandomGuy]

The NCAA just blinked.

Emmert told the Star leaders in the NCAA are not opposed to finding "an appropriate way" to open the door for some form of compensation for athletes, but a completely unregulated market is "not acceptable."

I believe Wildhack has said that there have been changes affecting the NCAA model, and that maybe they should look at some common sense solutions.

Apologies for not providing the quote. He stopped short of paying the players, but did acknowledge that the landscape has changed.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Boosters will pay kids to just go to the school and ink deals with them before they ever step foot on campus. And yes before they ever know how good they are.

You are thinking too much of after they step on campus. The before they step on campus is the much bigger issue and where paying kids will be a failure.

Also, if they are allowed to get paid in college...what rules are there to stop them from getting paid through high school by corporations directing kids to go to certain schools that have deals with certain colleges?

Yep, nothing.

I don't see a problem with any of this.

 

[Cheriehoop]

If you transfer in football or basketball you have to sit out a year.
If you transfer in lacrosse, field hockey, soccer, any non revenue sport you don’t have to sit out a year.

The transfer rules are targeted at the revenue sports.

The same 2 sports that offer full scholarships for participating team members to attend college. Non revenue sports split scholarships and because the ratio for the number of team members to the number of scholarships is much lower, they aren’t fully compensated for attendance. Not very equitable to make a player who gets 1/2 or 1/4 scholarship and paying to attend the school to also sit out a year if they want to transfer.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The NCAA wants to protect the status quo.
In the current status quo there are already winners and losers.
Of course if you like the status quo you don’t change.
Before professional athletes had free agency the teams controlled their players for as long as the teams wanted the player.

The NCAA rules are in place to keep the money where they want it. If you support the NCAA in this bill it’s because you don’t give a damn about the athletes you care about your team.

I don’t root for the owners in professional sports labor negotiations.
Owners are around forever. Players come and go. The players drive the sport. All this bill does is allow the free market to let collegiate athletes get whatever revenue is out there is.
What is to currently stop a rich booster from giving a player a ton of money AFTER they play at a school.
Vince Young is making a lot of money in the Austin, Tx area because of what he did there.

Who gives a chit if a rich alum/fan of a college team gives a player cash for their likeness to go that school. Oh no USC is getting a kid who would have gone to Ohio State or Notre Dame.

It’s not going to change the sport that much. Every college football player will get some money if they sell their likeness for a video game that EA sports will make because fans want it.

Great post

 

[Alsacs]

The same 2 sports that offer full scholarships for participating team members to attend college. Non revenue sports split scholarships and because the ratio for the number of team members to the number of scholarships is much lower, they aren’t fully compensated for attendance. Not very equitable to make a player who gets 1/2 or 1/4 scholarship and paying to attend the school to also sit out a year if they want to transfer.

Women’s volleyball, gymnastics, tennis are all full scholarship sports and these athletes don’t have to sit out a year if they transfer.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

That’s a BS statement.

It's an oversimplification, but I suspect there is a sizable amount of fans that don't consider any of the issues at play here beyond whatever snap judgment they make about what this means for their favorite team maintaining their standing in the college sports hierarchy.

Which is why those opinions shouldn't matter.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Women’s volleyball, gymnastics, tennis are all full scholarship sports and these athletes don’t have to sit out a year if they transfer.

Yes only those women’s non revue teams don’t have to sit our if they transfer.. The number of universities that even offer sports like gymnastics (84 for women and 15 for men) with few high school teams, limits participation, competition and overall scholarships anyways. I don’t think these women’s university teams will be effected with this California law regarding earning money for their images.

 

[qdawgg]

It’s pretty sad when a bunch of posters are so caught up in one idea they aren’t able to discuss other facets because they have such tunnel vision. Maybe stop responding with pure emotion, especially when you reply to a post and your fall back argument doesn’t even have to do specifically with the post.

But that’s how you end up with Donald as your president I guess.

 

[NKR1978]

Yes only those women’s non revue teams don’t have to sit our if they transfer.. The number of universities that even offer sports like gymnastics (84 for women and 15 for men) with few high school teams, limits participation, competition and overall scholarships anyways. I don’t think these women’s university teams will be effected with this California law regarding earning money for their images.

You don’t think a 2024 Olympic gymnast who still competes for her college can make money off her likeness? Or a tennis player who gets a wildcard to the US Open and makes it to the 4th round and now she has to choose between going pro or staying in school.

 

[Alsacs]

Yes only those women’s non revue teams don’t have to sit our if they transfer.. The number of universities that even offer sports like gymnastics (84 for women and 15 for men) with few high school teams, limits participation, competition and overall scholarships anyways. I don’t think these women’s university teams will be effected with this California law regarding earning money for their images.

This women’s performance went viral last year.

She could have likely gotten some endorsements from all the publicity but the NCAA rules wouldn’t let her.

California Law will help women athletes as well even from non-revenue sports.

 

[upperdeck]

you are promoting the good of the one over the good of the sport..

we had a system like this and it led to complete chaos in the sports thats why the rules became the rules.

the issue will still be trying to create a level playing field..

 

[Alsacs]

you are promoting the good of the one over the good of the sport..

we had a system like this and it led to complete chaos in the sports thats why the rules became the rules.

the issue will still be trying to create a level playing field..

If it’s all about a level playing field why don’t all coaches make the same amount of money?
The more successful coaches get more compensation.
Just like the most successful athletes should be allowed to profit from their likeness.

 

[Townie72]

They will step in if there are other abuses and issues that the governing body can’t or won’t handle. It’s how it’s supposed to work.

Exactly my point.

The politicians will come in and pass legislation that they think makes them look good. And the schools and their agent, the NCAA, will deal with the obvious and unintended consequences.

The American people have caught on to this and that’s why they view all politicians as frauds, crooks and opportunists.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This women’s performance went viral last year.

She could have likely gotten some endorsements from all the publicity but the NCAA rules wouldn’t let her.

California Law will help women athletes as well even from non-revenue sports.

Yeah, this is one of the biggest reasons why I'm a fan of athletes profiting from their name and likeness. There are a lot of athletes like this that would be able to benefit from the short time a window is open to their popularity. The fact that they can't is ridiculous.