NCAA threatens to boot the whole state of California if bill becomes law

[qdawgg]

Its straight from the former NCAA president.

Former NCAA Head Byers Says Athletes Should Be Paid

The longtime former head of the NCAA says it's time to end what he calls an outmoded system of amateurism in college sports and pay the athletes.

www.google.com

"And I attribute that to, quite frankly, to the neo-plantation mentality that exists on the campuses of our country and in the conference offices and in the NCAA. The coach owns the athlete's feet, the college owns the athlete's body and the athlete's mind is supposed to comprehend a rulebook that I challenge Dave Berst, who's sitting down in this audience, to explain in rational terms to you inside of eight hours."

He tried tearing down the model he built, because it was wrong.

Soooo because he compares the two it makes it accurate. Again, lazy analysis. Maybe I’m far more educated on the topic then the former NCAA president. Maybe he has an axe to grind. But just because people say it, doesn’t make it true or accurate. Come on.

 

[Alsacs]

how does that have anything to do with “plantation system” which is what my message you quoted is about.

Seriously, at least quote something I said that pertains to your question instead of just randomly jumping in with a comment that has zero to do with that particular conversation.

Stu-dent ATH-O-LEETS - South Park | South Park Studios US

Cartman visits the University of Colorado to get business advice.

southpark.cc.com

 

[qdawgg]

As a free market capitalist, I believe that the market will most often come up with a solution. I dont know of another industry that completely relies on unpaid, talented workers, but we're not even talking about that.

Actually none of this makes you a free market capitalist.

1 - you’re looking to the government to make corrections. Is that the free market system?
2 - The industry pays the workers. Failure to see there are financial terms in the agreement negates any argument you make.
3 - the players are not talented workers. Another mistake you’re making. Colleges don’t know what the talent level of any player will be even with stars. Some players are highly talented, many others are not - at the level the college is looking for. The college is assuming quite a bit of risk with every contract/scholarship they give out. This is more akin to what you see in a free market system which you incorrectly assume is not occurring.

 

[Cusefan0307]

its not bad if you dont care about syracuse sports or the system as a whole.. does it blow up the ivy system since they dont allow scholies either?

Blow the whole system up.. no more scholarships just like it was back in the day.. let kids have jobs, just like they did back in the day, make kids pay their own way. It would save the colleges millions and kids would find their own value..

if they pass this doesnt HS become next?

High school students can already have jobs. NCAA athletes can’t.

 

[CuseGrad94]

NY's bill is a step in the right direction, but I don't love colleges paying players themselves. Wish we would just copy the California bill.

You have never watched Southpark I take it.

Stu-dent ATH-O-LEETS - South Park | South Park Studios US

Cartman visits the University of Colorado to get business advice.

southpark.cc.com

I have watched that clip now a thousand times! Brilliant!!

 

[RandomGuy]

Actually none of this makes you a free market capitalist.

1 - you’re looking to the government to make corrections. Is that the free market system?
2 - The industry pays the workers. Failure to see there are financial terms in the agreement negates any argument you make.
3 - the players are not talented workers. Another mistake you’re making. Colleges don’t know what the talent level of any player will be even with stars. Some players are highly talented, many others are not - at the level the college is looking for. The college is assuming quite a bit of risk with every contract/scholarship they give out. This is more akin to what you see in a free market system which you incorrectly assume is not occurring.

Again. That was for those that fear a competitive advantage. I'm fine with winners and losers.

I believe the government's solution to child labor and worker exploitation to be just fine. This is not a market correction. Its whether they have a right to participate in a market for their likeness.

If the "workers" are not deemed to be in the top few % in the country, they simply wont be recruited. Those that do contribute, do indeed have rare talent. If they make some $$ off of their likeness, what do I care?

It's not a free market system. The NCAA has already been found guilty of antitrust violations. I dont believe those with a difference of opinion are just lazy. To each his own. The former head of the NCAA and a US judge feel differently. I'm guessing they know more about the laws and system than both of us.

 

[RandomGuy]

US Judge ruling(Alston vs. NCAA 2019)

Wilkens ruled "that the defendants agreed to and did restrain trade in the relevant market” and that the NCAA’s caps on scholarships “produced significant anticompetitive effects.”

Not a free market.

 

[RandomGuy]

Ayla Brown. Boston College Women's Basketball. American Idol Finalist.(highschool) Unable to continue the show, as it was a requirement to sign with an agent, as a finalist. Against NCAA rules
.
Recorded her first Album in 1 week, before she had to be fully NCAA compliant. Not allowed to record another until she graduated. In her podcast, this week, she said it's because they own you. That's messed up. Zero rights to her other talents.

 

[qdawgg]

I think people don't always understand the essence of free markets. There are winners and losers. The winners then have the ability to create restrictions, caps, limitations on the losers. Just because that happens doesn't mean it's not free market, it's a result of a truly free market system. Adam Smith actually discusses this in "Wealth of Nations" specifically.

 

[qdawgg]

Keep in mind, I'm not arguing that I think the system is fair at all. I've been discussing certain points that have come up and it's maybe given the wrong impression that I think the NCAA is in the right. I'm not 100% positive what I think exactly, except I don't think the current system is fair entirely but I'm not sure having government meddle in it is going to create a better outcome.

 

[orange79]

I think people don't always understand the essence of free markets. There are winners and losers. The winners then have the ability to create restrictions, caps, limitations on the losers. Just because that happens doesn't mean it's not free market, it's a result of a truly free market system. Adam Smith actually discusses this in "Wealth of Nations" specifically.

Fabulous thinker. Amazing for a book published in 1776.

 

[Cusefan0307]

So you are a free market capitalist who wants to redistribute the money?

Sort of like “From each oaccording to their ability and to each according to their need”??? (Karl Marx)

Actually I do understand. In order for Alabama to be Alabama, they need Ole Miss and Vanderbilt to be healthy.

As usual you don't get it and can't read. Nobody is redistributing money.

Allowing them to earn money allows the free market to work.

Right now that market is artificially suppressed.

 

[Townie72]

Keep in mind, I'm not arguing that I think the system is fair at all. I've been discussing certain points that have come up and it's maybe given the wrong impression that I think the NCAA is in the right. I'm not 100% positive what I think exactly, except I don't think the current system is fair entirely but I'm not sure having government meddle in it is going to create a better outcome.

Of course there are perfections in the current NCAA rules. There's bound to be.

But the NCAA is trying to maintain a level playing field because that's what the majority of their members want.

That's why the current rules exist. Pointing out individual cases where an individual was restrained doesn't mean the basic idea against professionalism is wrong.

Involvement by politicians won't help. They'll get the exposure and the and let the NCAA manage all the problems they have created.

I think this conversation would be helped of people were required to use the term College Presidents" instead of "NCAA". All the NCAA does is what the college president s tell it to do.

 

[FasterCuse]

Is the bye week officially over now that there is less than one week until game day?

 

[TheCusian]

Of course there are perfections in the current NCAA rules. There's bound to be.

But the NCAA is trying to maintain a level playing field because that's what the majority of their members want.

That's why the current rules exist. Pointing out individual cases where an individual was restrained doesn't mean the basic idea against professionalism is wrong.

Involvement by politicians won't help. They'll get the exposure and the and let the NCAA manage all the problems they have created.

I think this conversation would be helped of people were required to use the term College Presidents" instead of "NCAA". All the NCAA does is what the college president s tell it to do.

This take on legislation is bonkers. It’s not their place to figure out a solution to the issue. The law will outlaw x and a combination of stakeholders will figure out the best way to work within the new guidelines.

So given that players can make money for their likeness, NCAA it’s your turn to work within that new reality to try to make it as fair as you can.

 

[Moontan]

just curious - how much more rampant will the pre-campus arrival payment be than it is now?

I wouldn’t pay a 5* recruit for appearances until he actually enrolls and shows up for his first appearance. But that’s just me...

 

[Alsacs]

The NCAA wants to protect the status quo.
In the current status quo there are already winners and losers.
Of course if you like the status quo you don’t change.
Before professional athletes had free agency the teams controlled their players for as long as the teams wanted the player.

The NCAA rules are in place to keep the money where they want it. If you support the NCAA in this bill it’s because you don’t give a damn about the athletes you care about your team.

I don’t root for the owners in professional sports labor negotiations.
Owners are around forever. Players come and go. The players drive the sport. All this bill does is allow the free market to let collegiate athletes get whatever revenue is out there is.
What is to currently stop a rich booster from giving a player a ton of money AFTER they play at a school.
Vince Young is making a lot of money in the Austin, Tx area because of what he did there.

Who gives a chit if a rich alum/fan of a college team gives a player cash for their likeness to go that school. Oh no USC is getting a kid who would have gone to Ohio State or Notre Dame.

It’s not going to change the sport that much. Every college football player will get some money if they sell their likeness for a video game that EA sports will make because fans want it.

 

[Townie72]

As usual you don't get it and can't read. Nobody is redistributing money.

Allowing them to earn money allows the free market to work.

Right now that market is artificially suppressed.

Either you haven't read Qdawgs post that I was reacting to or you are unable to understand what he is saying.

In that post he specifically talks about "redistribution" from the rich schools.

This take on legislation is bonkers. It’s not their place to figure out a solution to the issue. The law will outlaw x and a combination of stakeholders will figure out the best way to work within the new guidelines.

So given that players can make money for their likeness, NCAA it’s your turn to work within that new reality to try to make it as fair as you can.

And they’ll have to manage the unintended consequences and abuses that come along with it.

The politicians will move on the their next effort to gain exposure, win votes through symbolic action and collect all the graft they can for themselves, family members and friends.

Parts of my family were in NJ State politics. I know how it works.

 

[qdawgg]

Fabulous thinker. Amazing for a book published in 1776.

and his thoughts are so widely misused as well. 1100+ page book and historically people have focused on 2 words and 1.5 pages of thoughts. It's an interesting book, I always thought it was cool how it was published the same year as The Declaration of Independence.

 

[qdawgg]

This take on legislation is bonkers. It’s not their place to figure out a solution to the issue. The law will outlaw x and a combination of stakeholders will figure out the best way to work within the new guidelines.

So given that players can make money for their likeness, NCAA it’s your turn to work within that new reality to try to make it as fair as you can.

Have you ever read the binders for 1 piece of legislation or policy?

 

[Horn88]

The NCAA wants to protect the status quo.
In the current status quo there are already winners and losers.
Of course if you like the status quo you don’t change.
Before professional athletes had free agency the teams controlled their players for as long as the teams wanted the player.

The NCAA rules are in place to keep the money where they want it. If you support the NCAA in this bill it’s because you don’t give a damn about the athletes you care about your team.

I don’t root for the owners in professional sports labor negotiations.
Owners are around forever. Players come and go. The players drive the sport. All this bill does is allow the free market to let collegiate athletes get whatever revenue is out there is.
What is to currently stop a rich booster from giving a player a ton of money AFTER they play at a school.
Vince Young is making a lot of money in the Austin, Tx area because of what he did there.

Who gives a chit if a rich alum/fan of a college team gives a player cash for their likeness to go that school. Oh know USC is getting a kid who would have gone to Ohio State or Notre Dame.

It’s not going to change the sport that much. Every college football player will get some money if they sell their likeness for a video game that EA sports will make because fans want it.

This pretty much summarizes the entire thread.

The concentration of talent isn't going to change all that much than how it is right now. Depth chart, relationships, location, program prestige, fan support, facilities are all still going to have a sizable impact on who signs where.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Either you haven't read Qdawgs post that I was reacting to or you are unable to understand what he is saying.

In that post he specifically talks about "redistribution" from the rich schools.


And they’ll have to manage the unintended consequences and abuses that come along with it.

The politicians will move on the their next effort to gain exposure, win votes through symbolic action and collect all the graft they can for themselves, family members and friends.

Parts of my family were in NJ State politics. I know how it works.

Having players make money off their name is not redistribution from wealthy schools.

Right now I could argue the money is being redistributed from players to the people running the NCAA.

It makes no sense why players can't have jobs just like any other college student.

I don't have time to read someones thesis on this. It's quite frankly a simple law.

And you guys are ignoring all the unintended consequences now and so is the NCAA.

 

[maxxyz]

And they’ll have to manage the unintended consequences and abuses that come along with it.

The politicians will move on the their next effort to gain exposure, win votes through symbolic action and collect all the graft they can for themselves, family members and friends.

Parts of my family were in NJ State politics. I know how it works.

I find it ironic that the same politicians who won’t talk about campaign donation reform are all over the NCAA.

 

[Newhouser]

Townie, the former president of the NCAA -the guy that coined the term student athlete- has said the NCAA has evolved into a "plantation system" His words. Nkr1978's comments are not without merit. I'll take the guys word who came up with this whole damn mess, that its broken.

As a free market capitalist, I believe that the market will most often come up with a solution. I dont know of another industry that completely relies on unpaid, talented workers, but we're not even talking about that.

I feel every argument against , is the fear that "my team" may not compete as well. While it may be true, I can't argue that position. I hope the NCAA/PA would institute policies where the have nots have a better chance to level the field. (Use of likeness revenue share to the have nots? Distributed across the team, as opposed to the few big earners?)

The first sentence of your last paragraph is right on.

 

[Alsacs]

Why shouldn’t the trick shot UCF kicker be allowed to make money while in college?
What the hell is wrong with him being a social media influencer while in college?
The school isn’t paying him.

The NCAA is so stupid and greedy.