New DC: Tony White

[SmilinBob]

Didn't SU run a 4-2-5 and a 3-3-5 at times last year on passing downs? The biggest change would be on 1st and 2nd downs and obviously how they adapt vs the run.

 

[PAcuse]

Didn't SU run a 4-2-5 and a 3-3-5 at times last year on passing downs? The biggest change would be on 1st and 2nd downs and obviously how they adapt vs the run.

Our base defense was 4-2-5 last two years. 2018 they did switch to more of a 4-3 after the Pitt game.

 

[SmilinBob]

Our base defense was 4-2-5 last two years. 2018 they did switch to more of a 4-3 after the Pitt game.

Yep...that's right, thanks PAc.
So basically the key is to now make sure they get some darn good LB's. Also, curious on what DT's think of this when they talk to coaches on the recruiting trail since they will be taking on the brunt of it alone size wise.

 

[CuseOnly]

Our base defense was 4-2-5 last two years. 2018 they did switch to more of a 4-3 after the Pitt game.

Yeah but there will be a big difference in the aggressiveness and philosophy.

Changing the front and linebackers was to get different personnel on the field for matchups, it didn't change the philosophy of the defense.

This will be a complete change in philosophy from sitting back and waiting to see what the offense does to an aggressive attacking defense that forces the opposing offense to make decisions quickly.

Big difference and we do have the personnel at every level to execute it. And I am sure that with autonomy, Tony will put his own stamp on it with Dino's blessing.

 

[PAcuse]

Yeah but there will be a big difference in the aggressiveness and philosophy.

Changing the front and linebackers was to get different personnel on the field for matchups, it didn't change the philosophy of the defense.

This will be a complete change in philosophy from sitting back and waiting to see what the offense does to an aggressive attacking defense that forces the opposing offense to make decisions quickly.

Big difference and we do have the personnel at every level to execute it. And I am sure that with autonomy, Tony will put his own stamp on it with Dino's blessing.

I was just answering the question, was not trying to defend our defense from the last two years

 

[Whitey23]

 

[JackBauer44]

But did he sign a contact? ... (this is sarcasm)

 

[RF2044]

Question for any of the coaches on the board, how hard is it to switch from a 4-3 to a 3-3-5? Is there a large learning curve for the coaches and players or is it a pretty basic change in sets and philosophy?

I ask because I do not believe any of our defensive coaches have much experience running a 3-3-5 and ive read that the assignments and schemes can be quite a bit different, especially for the position coaches.

I was also curious as to how long might it take for the players to adequately learn the system and assignments? Babers said his offense usually takes a year or two to master. While that is on the other side of the ball, I still expect a learning curve to exist to some extent on the Defensive side as well?

I like that we start off the season with some very winnable games on the road but I would hate to lay an egg, especially with who we start with this year, due to missed assignments and/or blown overages because we are still getting up to speed on the defensive side of the ball.

I don't think it will be hard to switch, primarily due to our personnel being well suited for this new system. There might be some players who don't fit the scheme as well [this is a totally hypothetical example, but maybe someone like Harper doesn't fit what the new DC is looking for at DT, just for example - not suggesting that Harper isn't a fit].

I'm more worried about the rest of the defensive staff -- quality new hires, but not a ton of experience with this base system -- so it might take some time for them to iron out the kinks and get on the same page. Will it take them a long time to teach / get coordination? Remains to be seen.

But all else being equal, I am a big fan of the talent we have in the back 7 -- excited to see them turned loose and see what a more aggressive approach will yield.

Also looking forward to improved tackling -- enough is enough.

 

[orangepassion]

I heard a big draw of hiring Tony White was to give an easy name for our PR department to spell. Would like to think they should be able to handle a name like this and not write Toney Wyte.

 

[Cusefan69]

I don't think it will be hard to switch, primarily due to our personnel being well suited for this new system. There might be some players who don't fit the scheme as well [this is a totally hypothetical example, but maybe someone like Harper doesn't fit what the new DC is looking for at DT, just for example - not suggesting that Harper isn't a fit].

I'm more worried about the rest of the defensive staff -- quality new hires, but not a ton of experience with this base system -- so it might take some time for them to iron out the kinks and get on the same page. Will it take them a long time to teach / get coordination? Remains to be seen.

But all else being equal, I am a big fan of the talent we have in the back 7 -- excited to see them turned loose and see what a more aggressive approach will yield.

Also looking forward to improved tackling -- enough is enough.

Agreed though my hope would be the concepts are not that challenging and if I was CW I would have the staff in the film room and his house for dinner (nothing like glasses and salt and pepper shakers to show alignments at the table) going over positioning, assignments and play calls.

 

[orangepassion]

The bolded below is a big key and I believe was our biggest problem on D last year. We missed way too many tackles and significantly more than the teams we played. I am hopeful that will be a big point of emphasis, as everyone will be expected to tackle well with less Linemen/LB in a 3-3-5.

I don't think it will be hard to switch, primarily due to our personnel being well suited for this new system. There might be some players who don't fit the scheme as well [this is a totally hypothetical example, but maybe someone like Harper doesn't fit what the new DC is looking for at DT, just for example - not suggesting that Harper isn't a fit].
Also looking forward to improved tackling -- enough is enough.

 

[upperdeck]

really seems like 3 issues with learning the system. one is learning how to teach it.. for the players learning how to run it.. but the big issue is understanding how/when to call the plays in the system..

you still need to teach the players the basics and that doesnt change. the choaches will all be learning the system together and that should be crazy hard for most of them its not like everything they have done is thrown out it may just mean more emphasis on the stuff they didnt do a bunch before.

how easy the system to get the players in the right spots to mitigate blown coverages is a big deal. but at least we have a guy who has a pretty good idea on how.when to call the various attacks they want to use.

 

[007]

Unless you lived it, it is difficult to fully appreciate the underlying complexity involved in installing and coaching defensive systems from the ground up. There will be a long learning curve not unlike what we witnessed in the transition to Dino's offense. This doesn't mean we won't be able to line up and run it from game 1, but it will take a long time to evolve into what many of us are imagining. I think part of the problem with Ward was the complexity of what he was asking the players to do - they typically looked lost, missed assignments, weren't sure what to do when, even though there was little presnap movement or attempts to disguise coverages.

To be clear, I am all in and excited by the transition to the 3-3-5. The organized chaos, pre-snap movement, fast aggressive play, disguised coverages, and blitzes coming from "anywhere" seems like a great match (on paper anyway) with the personnel we already have.

I especially like pairing the 3-3-5 with Dino's offense played in the Dome.

 

[CuseOnly]

I was just answering the question, was not trying to defend our defense from the last two years

That would be tough to defend...

 

[CuseOnly]

I don't think it will be hard to switch, primarily due to our personnel being well suited for this new system. There might be some players who don't fit the scheme as well [this is a totally hypothetical example, but maybe someone like Harper doesn't fit what the new DC is looking for at DT, just for example - not suggesting that Harper isn't a fit].

I'm more worried about the rest of the defensive staff -- quality new hires, but not a ton of experience with this base system -- so it might take some time for them to iron out the kinks and get on the same page. Will it take them a long time to teach / get coordination? Remains to be seen.

But all else being equal, I am a big fan of the talent we have in the back 7 -- excited to see them turned loose and see what a more aggressive approach will yield.

Also looking forward to improved tackling -- enough is enough.

It's back 8 now officially. Back 7 would imply 4 DT's

 

[SURules]

Unless you lived it, it is difficult to fully appreciate the underlying complexity involved in installing and coaching defensive systems from the ground up. There will be a long learning curve not unlike what we witnessed in the transition to Dino's offense. This doesn't mean we won't be able to line up and run it from game 1, but it will take a long time to evolve into what many of us are imagining. I think part of the problem with Ward was the complexity of what he was asking the players to do - they typically looked lost, missed assignments, weren't sure what to do when, even though there was little presnap movement or attempts to disguise coverages.

To be clear, I am all in and excited by the transition to the 3-3-5. The organized chaos, pre-snap movement, fast aggressive play, disguised coverages, and blitzes coming from "anywhere" seems like a great match (on paper anyway) with the personnel we already have.

I especially like pairing the 3-3-5 with Dino's offense played in the Dome.

“There will be a long learning curve”. Much agreed. This is what worries me most. It will take some time for things to jell and I envision some broken coverages, etc. for a while. In the end, I think the fans will be happy but it isn’t going to be there overnight nor even the 1st few games. It could take a year or two.

 

[kcsu]

But did he sign a contact? ... (this is sarcasm)

Actually the fact that SU took so long to officially announce this hire shows that they learned a lesson.

 

[kcsu]

Unless you lived it, it is difficult to fully appreciate the underlying complexity involved in installing and coaching defensive systems from the ground up. There will be a long learning curve not unlike what we witnessed in the transition to Dino's offense. This doesn't mean we won't be able to line up and run it from game 1, but it will take a long time to evolve into what many of us are imagining. I think part of the problem with Ward was the complexity of what he was asking the players to do - they typically looked lost, missed assignments, weren't sure what to do when, even though there was little presnap movement or attempts to disguise coverages.

To be clear, I am all in and excited by the transition to the 3-3-5. The organized chaos, pre-snap movement, fast aggressive play, disguised coverages, and blitzes coming from "anywhere" seems like a great match (on paper anyway) with the personnel we already have.

I especially like pairing the 3-3-5 with Dino's offense played in the Dome.

When ever you are teaching something the more complex the more time it takes to comprehend. College kids have at most 5 years so simple is better. Also it is much easier to teach ACTION VS REACTION.

This is a great move for many reasons. I love that our players are creating vs reacting.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

“There will be a long learning curve”. Much agreed. This is what worries me most. It will take some time for things to jell and I envision some broken coverages, etc. for a while. In the end, I think the fans will be happy but it isn’t going to be there overnight nor even the 1st few games. It could take a year or two.

I wish that I could apply for a job and say it will take a year or two before you really see some progress! . In all seriousness you are right!

 

[texascpa]

Or in other words his background check came back clean! Whew...

 

[supp]

I'm not convinced yet that White is going to be coaching the linebackers. No mention of it in the pr release from the SUAD. Stanard was moved to linebackers after Ward was fired. They may stick with Stanard at linebackers and have White as DC only. That would free up White to do more roving instruction and more recruiting too.

 

[crales44]

I'm not convinced yet that White is going to be coaching the linebackers. No mention of it in the pr release from the SUAD. Stanard was moved to linebackers after Ward was fired. They may stick with Stanard at linebackers and have White as DC only. That would free up White to do more roving instruction and more recruiting too.

Makes sense, particularly in year one of the defensive transition to the 3-3-5

 

[money3189]

So after looking up some Arizona st stuff I definitely think we will go with bigger DE’s (5 tech). San Diego st was able to get away with thinner DE’s at 260 pounds. They can do it at the G5 level but not in the ACC. Arizona St had 280 pound DE’s. I imagine White wants our guys at that weight too. Black and Bear can play there next season. For the future I see guys growing into the position naturally. Guys like Tuazama Okechukwu, Rondi Munoz Dawson Lemieux. Instead of having to gain 40 pounds to play DT's in a 4-3. All they have to do is gain 20. I also think he's gonna try guys like Cam Jonas and Devon Clarke at the S/LB position. Jahad Carter might have been recruited for that position too.

 

[PAcuse]

So after looking up some Arizona st stuff I definitely think we will go with bigger DE’s (5 tech). San Diego st was able to get away with thinner DE’s at 260 pounds. They can do it at the G5 level but not in the ACC. Arizona St had 280 pound DE’s. I imagine White wants our guys at that weight too. Black and Bear can play there next season. For the future I see guys growing into the position naturally. Guys like Tuazama Okechukwu, Rondi Munoz Dawson Lemieux. Instead of having to gain 40 pounds to play DT's in a 4-3. All they have to do is gain 20. I also think he's gonna try guys like Cam Jonas and Devon Clarke at the S/LB position. Jahad Carter might have been recruited for that position too.

Who plays inside if Bear and Black are out at DE?

 

[MadNY3]

No. Although the fact that you focused on semen makes me a little concerned for you.

Well. Played.