New Staff's Approach

[OrangePA]

For the recruiting guys.

The Halloway situation begs the question - how different is Dino's approach to recruiting than Shafer's approach?

As I understand it, Halloway was told to look elsewhere because of academic concerns.

I gather that was because Dino wants to use the scholarship on another player who is more talented? Or, will qualify?

Why was Shafer willing to gamble on a player with qualification issues? And why is Dino not so willing?

Thanks for the insight.

 

[TheCusian]

For the recruiting guys. The Halloway situation begs the question - how different is Dino's approach to recruiting than Shafer's approach? As I understand it, Halloway was told to look elsewhere because of academic concerns. I gather that was because Dino wants to use the scholarship on another player who is more talented? Or, will qualify? Why was Shafer willing to gamble on a player with qualification issues? And why is Dino not so willing? Thanks for the insight.

The Halloway situation I think was a combo of fit and not being able to get a qualifying score (due to a cancelled SAT).

My reading of it so far is that they believe they can get higher rated kids that are qualified - so why bother with the questionable ones. They have a certain belief and moxie to what they are doing on the trail that Shafer lacked. He seemed more resigned to getting second or third tier kids (or diamonds in the rough, like Dungey).

I think it's like this:

- Shafer believed if you had good kids who loved football and you poured enough into them they'd grow into something great. An admirable goal.
- Baber believes that the program is on the rise and will bulldoze your house to make room for what he envisions. Get on board, because we will be great.

 

[bnoro]

For the recruiting guys.

The Halloway situation begs the question - how different is Dino's approach to recruiting than Shafer's approach?

As I understand it, Halloway was told to look elsewhere because of academic concerns.

I gather that was because Dino wants to use the scholarship on another player who is more talented? Or, will qualify?

Why was Shafer willing to gamble on a player with qualification issues? And why is Dino not so willing?

Thanks for the insight.

Two things on Holloway.

Academically unfortunately he wasn't up to snuff. It seems that Dino would rather not have guys fall short and then have a shortfall in a class because of it. Shafer got burned by this too many times.

Physically he wasn't ready to go this year, and with only two active DE's on the roster (since we don't know about the suspensions) we need players that can contribute as soon as possible. Dino's been able to find these guys and bring them in.

Academics is a convenient excuse to go in another direction though. It's a good out and doesn't make you seem like an a**hole when you pull a scholarship.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

A friend of mine has called Shafer's recruiting record "Robinson-esque."

The best recruits didn't qualify, there were a few good players, and not much balance in the classes.

 

[upperdeck]

almost feels like the kid will need to get grades in order and maybe he still likes the school

 

[PhatOrange]

For the recruiting guys.

The Halloway situation begs the question - how different is Dino's approach to recruiting than Shafer's approach?

As I understand it, Halloway was told to look elsewhere because of academic concerns.

I gather that was because Dino wants to use the scholarship on another player who is more talented? Or, will qualify?

Why was Shafer willing to gamble on a player with qualification issues? And why is Dino not so willing?

Thanks for the insight.

Those are good questions for you to ask at the big donor recruit party and then let us all know.

 

[Cuse'91]

For the recruiting guys.

The Halloway situation begs the question - how different is Dino's approach to recruiting than Shafer's approach?

As I understand it, Halloway was told to look elsewhere because of academic concerns.

I gather that was because Dino wants to use the scholarship on another player who is more talented? Or, will qualify?

Why was Shafer willing to gamble on a player with qualification issues? And why is Dino not so willing?

Thanks for the insight.

Because Dino is Hardnosed!

 

[PAcuse]

On defense you have to look at the attacking/blitzing defense FHCSS and company where running they would seem to target smaller guys that could blitz. With the Tamp 2 defense coming in you with see a big shift from that. Linebackers will have to be bigger and better coverage skills. You also see that with the secondary getting bigger.
On offense clearly we will bring in a ton of WR. You will see ones speficially for the slot and outside receivers. Oline with have guys that are in the 6'5" and taller that have quick feet and big frames that can be filled out.

 

[PhatOrange]

depending on how talented he is, he seems like a good prep candidate and then try to bring him in in Jan next year. If all he needs to do is bump up the SAT for the sliding scale then he's a prep kid.

 

[PhatOrange]

On defense you have to look at the attacking/blitzing defense FHCSS and company where running they would seem to target smaller guys that could blitz. With the Tamp 2 defense coming in you with see a big shift from that. Linebackers will have to be bigger and better coverage skills. You also see that with the secondary getting bigger.

On offense clearly we will bring in a ton of WR. You will see ones speficially for the slot and outside receivers. Oline with have guys that are in the 6'5" and taller that have quick feet and big frames that can be filled out.

I think this is a fallacy. Shafer recruited big kids and targeted big kids.

We’re small at safety and at the linebacker position I’ll agree that we ‘seemingly’ targeted guys who could run and hit and didn’t worry about how tall they were. LB isn’t really our problem though; and defense wasn’t either.

The Tampa2 will require edge pass rushers. You’re going to need guys that are fast at End. If you cant generate a pass rush with the 4 lineman then you’re going to be dead meat. And then when we face running QB’s we’re going to have a big problem to. Shafer’s defenses did a pretty good containing ground games.

We got beat badly in man to man coverage though. Probably a combo of coaching and skill. Or DB’s never look back and our safeties got beat over the top more times than I could count and midgets in supporting the run which also hinders their tackling ability.

Recruiting bigger and faster athletes is what every football coach wants. It’s nothing new and it’s not special. Shafer tried. When you’re not a selector school, it’s easy to ‘want’ it but a little harder to do it.

i love the size of Dino's kids, sure, but now can they play.

 

[PAcuse]

I think this is a fallacy. Shafer recruited big kids and targeted big kids.

We’re small at safety and at the linebacker position I’ll agree that we ‘seemingly’ targeted guys who could run and hit and didn’t worry about how tall they were. LB isn’t really our problem though; and defense wasn’t either.

The Tampa2 will require edge pass rushers. You’re going to need guys that are fast at End. If you cant generate a pass rush with the 4 lineman then you’re going to be dead meat. And then when we face running QB’s we’re going to have a big problem to. Shafer’s defenses did a pretty good containing ground games.

We got beat badly in man to man coverage though. Probably a combo of coaching and skill. Or DB’s never look back and our safeties got beat over the top more times than I could count and midgets in supporting the run which also hinders their tackling ability.

Recruiting bigger and faster athletes is what every football coach wants. It’s nothing new and it’s not special. Shafer tried. When you’re not a selector school, it’s easy to ‘want’ it but a little harder to do it.

i love the size of Dino's kids, sure, but now can they play.

No fallacy at all, our defense was always small. Shafer tired to get bigger and faster kids. It didn't happen much. I was just pointing out want Babers was looking for vs. Shafer. We ended up with kids that could run and hit because that's what we could get.
My main point was on what Babers and company where going after. Didn't really try to bring in FHCSS and "bash" sorry if it seems that way.

 

[VirginiaOrange]

For the recruiting guys.

The Halloway situation begs the question - how different is Dino's approach to recruiting than Shafer's approach?

As I understand it, Halloway was told to look elsewhere because of academic concerns.

I gather that was because Dino wants to use the scholarship on another player who is more talented? Or, will qualify?

Why was Shafer willing to gamble on a player with qualification issues? And why is Dino not so willing?

Thanks for the insight.

Shafer had to take chances as it was the only way he could land most of his better recruits. Take out his non-qualifiers and iffy guys who left pretty quickly and there was a reason he was chasing almost unknown JUCOs.

Dino trusts his ability to recruit enough (and seems to be proving it) that he does not need to waste time chasing kids that look good for the "star" system but that will never contribute. Dino does not need the hope and prayer approach.

 

[CousCuse]

In the ACC faster is more important than bigger. All they needed last year was Blair to clear and play . Now everything is changed and we will see how good the new DC is against the top tier OC's in college football

 

[longislandcuse]

Did any recruiting guru/website/ESPN ever mention our recruiting under Shafer?

Dino has had a month to recruit, completely revamped our class and has people making comments like "Syracuse and Michigan won the recruiting weekend".

 

[TheCusian]

In the ACC faster is more important than bigger. All they needed last year was Blair to clear and play . Now everything is changed and we will see how good the new DC is against the top tier OC's in college football

Big and fast > Small and fast

 

[bnoro]

I think this is a fallacy. Shafer recruited big kids and targeted big kids.

We’re small at safety and at the linebacker position I’ll agree that we ‘seemingly’ targeted guys who could run and hit and didn’t worry about how tall they were. LB isn’t really our problem though; and defense wasn’t either.

The Tampa2 will require edge pass rushers. You’re going to need guys that are fast at End. If you cant generate a pass rush with the 4 lineman then you’re going to be dead meat. And then when we face running QB’s we’re going to have a big problem to. Shafer’s defenses did a pretty good containing ground games.

We got beat badly in man to man coverage though. Probably a combo of coaching and skill. Or DB’s never look back and our safeties got beat over the top more times than I could count and midgets in supporting the run which also hinders their tackling ability.

Recruiting bigger and faster athletes is what every football coach wants. It’s nothing new and it’s not special. Shafer tried. When you’re not a selector school, it’s easy to ‘want’ it but a little harder to do it.

i love the size of Dino's kids, sure, but now can they play.

We had DE's at DT, OLB's at DE, safeties playing OLB, and 5'8'' cornerbacks were the norm. Shafer's kids were very small for a P5 football team, plain and simple.

It's funny you say that Shafer tried and failed at this but Dino's come in and instantly succeeded in getting the Defense bigger in a month.

 

[NC'cusefan]

A friend of mine has called Shafer's recruiting record "Robinson-esque."

The best recruits didn't qualify, there were a few good players, and not much balance in the classes.

OUCH!

 

[PhatOrange]

We had DE's at DT, OLB's at DE, safeties playing OLB, and 5'8'' cornerbacks were the norm. Shafer's kids were very small for a P5 football team, plain and simple.

It's funny you say that Shafer tried and failed at this but Dino's come in and instantly succeeded in getting the Defense bigger in a month.

I've acknowledged forever that our secondary and LBs are small but you're wrong about the other positions and need to go look at the roster. And some players were moved (Arcineaga due to depth) and some (Slayton because they grew to 290). What safety is playing LB ?

Dino got bigger at LB and Safety which is what we needed. We probably sacrificed speed. We'll see. He didn't get us bigger at DE or DT.

 

[CousCuse]

Big and fast > Small and fast

Smaller and fast > Bigger and slow.

 

[GoCuse14]

We had DE's at DT, OLB's at DE, safeties playing OLB, and 5'8'' cornerbacks were the norm. Shafer's kids were very small for a P5 football team, plain and simple.

It's funny you say that Shafer tried and failed at this but Dino's come in and instantly succeeded in getting the Defense bigger in a month.

And that's the biggest thing, you can get away with a couple guys like that...but not when 90% of your starting defense is out of position or at a huge size/speed disadvantage.

 

[PhatOrange]

And that's the biggest thing, you can get away with a couple guys like that...but not when 90% of your starting defense is out of position or at a huge size/speed disadvantage.

who is out of position ?

 

[O-pulse]

Focusing upon those who are ready to and can help our team is the way to go, IMO. Many times in the past we offered a player and stuck with him only to ultimately find that he never makes it to campus. Way to go HCDB!

 

[TheCusian]

Smaller and fast > Bigger and slow.

There's no proof that is the case.

 

[CousCuse]

There's no proof that is the case.

That's how the spread developed in the first place.

 

[Shenexon]

Dino has had a month to recruit, completely revamped our class and has people making comments like "Syracuse and Michigan won the recruiting weekend".

Dino and his staff sure seem like they know what & who they want and are doing a noticeable job of recruiting 2017 & 2018 at the same time they're fashioning the pool of talent they need to win games in 2016. The staff look like they belong and I look forward to witnessing similar confidence as the coaches win some games, scare the teams they lose to, and generate renewed interest in SU football. Dino et al are creating a buzz with recruits, media, and fans...could be a very fun era...