Next step for ACC?

[Chip]

I don't understand these "last team standing" posts.

Why?

Seriously, why would any conference expand any more than is absolutely necessary? Why would any school share a dime more than they have to?

There is no prescribed 4X16, or 5X14, "plan", nor will there be. Conference alignment is ever-fluid and entirely based on $$$. So if anyone wants to add a school to their conference it is for extremely explicit reasons, not just to get to some magic number that the internet has decided is necessary... for some undetermined reason.

If Rutgers ends up in the B10, or ACC, or whatever, it will only be because those conferences want them. End of story.

Apparently someone didn't like doing puzzles when he was a kid. Or maybe you did but then realized that real life and business isn't a puzzle where everything has to fit nicely. Many people are struggling with that on conference realignment.

Can you imagine the Big 10 telling it's presidents, well we are picking last for gym class, so we have to take Rutgers. I mean, yeah, they don't add value, they don't add any money to the pot, and we have to now split that pot with them. But look at them, they're just sitting out there. So we're stuck. If we don't, we'll be left behind, what with our Ohio States and our Michigans and our Nebraskas and our Wisconsins and our Pedephiles.

 

[kingottoiii]

But while ND enjoys being chased and courted, they will NEVER join as conference.

The only way I see them joining a conf is if they have access to the post season severely limited.

Right now we have 6 Big Bowl games:

1 vs 4
2 vs 3
B1G vs P12
SEC vs B12
ACC vs ?
? vs ?

So if ND doesn't make the playoffs they still have access to the three ?s. Which is why IMO the Big 5 should simply take the ?s away. The 4th Bowl could easily be the B1G vs the SEC and then the ACC can matchup with the B12. That would only leave ND with access to the playoffs, meaning they have to be Top 5 to get in and get paid. Meanwhile the other conferences would have guaranteed payouts of $40-60 million.

ND doesn't want to be irrelevant. If their choices are Champs/Belk/Pinstripe Bowl or joining a conference, they may have to join.

 

[stuckinbig11]

I would prefer that ND join the MAC, then they could continue playing against Big Ten teams.

 

[BlazeOrange]

I don't understand these "last team standing" posts.
Why?
Seriously, why would any conference expand any more than is absolutely necessary? Why would any school share a dime more than they have to?

Here's the logic: A while back, the first conference went to 12 teams and had a championship game, made extra money,... Other conferences saw that and (some more eventually than others) decided they wanted that deal too and added teams. Now, we've seen the first conference go to 14 teams (I exclude the MAC from this - I know they were the first to go >12 awhile back, but who cares), which was shortly followed by the next conference doing it and a failed attempt at one to get up to 16 . In response, the rest of the conferences would have to do their due diligence and consider what they would do if 14 or 16 became the new "thing". Especially whether they would be a Feeder Conference (BE, MW, CUSA) or an Eater Conference (Big 5) and, if the latter, what schools they could feasibly add. If a potential addition stands out from the pack, it would make sense to lock them up ahead of the curve because the options get pretty ugly at the end of the line.

Here's where the logic fails:
a) 14 or 16 team conferences has not become the new "thing"
b) None of the schools currently available (except ND, who is not really available) have shown themselves to be enough of a difference maker to worry anyone that they would miss out if they got scooped up.
c) ND is such a difference maker that nothing will happen until they join a conference (if they ever do). Conferences that hope to snag the Irish would leave as many openings as possible to allow whoever ND wants as a partner to join with them.

The result is an impasse until something big happens, which could pretty much only be ND giving up their FB independence (the likelhood of which has been talked to death) or the ACC-B12 Death Match actually happening to create a Big 4. But the latter would free up a bunch more schools that are better choices for multiple surviving conferences, so there's another reason not to jump the gun now.

 

[Chip]

The only way I see them joining a conf is if they have access to the post season severely limited.

I've been wondering, who would want to squeeze out ND from the Final 4? It sounds good in theory, but then you would be pushing them to join a conference. So would the Pac 12 want that? USC and/or Stanford could potentially lose their annual matchup, and it would strengthen another conference because ND isn't going there. Would the SEC want that? Add strength to someone else? They're not getting ND. B1G? They might want to force their hand, being in the best position to land them.

Would the ACC or Big 12 want to be on record as trying to force them out of the Final 4? Wouldn't exactly position themselves to be the sweepstakes winner.

I think everyone is stuck, and as much as it pains the conferences to see ND have their own TV deal, keep all their own bowl money, the best idea might be to leave them where they are. Meaning the only thing that could force them to a conference is if they ultimately can't get a TV network to pony up enough to make it worth their while.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I've been wondering, who would want to squeeze out ND from the Final 4? It sounds good in theory, but then you would be pushing them to join a conference. So would the Pac 12 want that? USC and/or Stanford could potentially lose their annual matchup, and it would strengthen another conference because ND isn't going there. Would the SEC want that? Add strength to someone else? They're not getting ND. B1G? They might want to force their hand, being in the best position to land them.

Would the ACC or Big 12 want to be on record as trying to force them out of the Final 4? Wouldn't exactly position themselves to be the sweepstakes winner.

I think everyone is stuck, and as much as it pains the conferences to see ND have their own TV deal, keep all their own bowl money, the best idea might be to leave them where they are. Meaning the only thing that could force them to a conference is if they ultimately can't get a TV network to pony up enough to make it worth their while.

right now, the confs just need to keep the status quo. which is letting nd slip into IRRELEVENCY scooch.

their fan base is dying off, its only a matter of time before nbc realizes this.

their recruit base wasnt born when they last won. its only a matter of time before even more kids dont want to go there.

i think the big5 should organize a good ole fashion conspiracy and freeze them out. its only a matter of time before they dont want split their bowl $$ 12-14 ways while nd keeps it all. oh wait, theyve already started doing this.

nd could be army if swofford, silve, scott delaney and whoever the f is in the bevo wanted them to be.

 

[Scooch]

right now, the confs just need to keep the status quo. which is letting nd slip into IRRELEVENCY scooch.

their fan base is dying off, its only a matter of time before nbc realizes this.

their recruit base wasnt born when they last won. its only a matter of time before even more kids dont want to go there.

i think the big5 should organize a good ole fashion conspiracy and freeze them out. its only a matter of time before they dont want split their bowl $$ 12-14 ways while nd keeps it all. oh wait, theyve already started doing this.

nd could be army if swofford, silve, scott delaney and whoever the f is in the bevo wanted them to be.

Let me ask you... were the Yankees "irrelevant" between 1978 and 1996?

They weren't necessarily good most of the time, obviously, but were they irrelevant?

The answer, as much as it pains me to say, is no.

Are the Cubs irrelevant? There is literally no one ALIVE since they last won anything.

Some brands transcend being a perennial championship-caliber team. Not many, but a handful.

ND has still won 9+ games 6 times in the past 15 seasons. They aren't world beaters, but 9+ wins gets people watching on TV, and gets high school kids to sign letters of intent. It's not like they've been going 3-9 every season. They've been just good enough, that's all that matters.

As long as ND is decent, with the occasional better-than-decent season, they'll be as relevant as any program in the country.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Let me ask you... were the Yankees "irrelevant" between 1978 and 1996?

They weren't necessarily good most of the time, obviously, but were they irrelevant?

The answer, as much as it pains me to say, is no.

Are the Cubs irrelevant? There is literally no one ALIVE since they last won anything.

Some brands transcend being a perennial championship-caliber team. Not many, but a handful.

ND has still won 9+ games 6 times in the past 15 seasons. They aren't world beaters, but 9+ wins gets people watching on TV, and gets high school kids to sign letters of intent. It's not like they've been going 3-9 every season. They've been just good enough, that's all that matters.

As long as ND is decent, with the occasional better-than-decent season, they'll be as relevant as any program in the country.

lets not bring the pros into this, they can take whoever they want. but i will concede that if you asked me to name the 10 best teams to play for in college, in no order id go...michigan, ohio st, usc, texas, oklahoma, florida, lsu, bama, penn...err oops, tenn and nd. maybe miami, fla st, nebraska and georgia get in. but im in my 40s, i remember nd as basically the only option in the 70s and early 80s.

mystique and aura used to appear nightly at the Bronx, until they didnt.

nd is slipping.

and if they are even REMOTELY entertaining the ACC...they know it.

 

[Scooch]

lets not bring the pros into this, they can take whoever they want. but i will concede that if you asked me to name the 10 best teams to play for in college, in no order id go...michigan, ohio st, usc, texas, oklahoma, florida, lsu, bama, penn...err oops, tenn and nd. maybe miami, fla st, nebraska and georgia get in. but im in my 40s, i remember nd as basically the only option in the 70s and early 80s.

mystique and aura used to appear nightly at the Bronx, until they didnt.

nd is slipping.

and if they are even REMOTELY entertaining the ACC...they know it.

But the atmosphere of South Bend hasn't changed. Kids go visit that place and are blown away. You think that a kid who's profile "fits" who ND recruits is going to see Touchdown Jesus, watch 'Rudy', see that green sea of 80K... and decide to go to BC, or Wake Forest, or Syracuse, or Baylor, or Rutgers, or whatever?

It's like that column Mandel penned the other day about the Kings, Barons, etc. ND is a King not because they win national titles, but because they have a lunatic fanbase. Sure not being in the top 10 frays that around the margins, but the core is strong as hell. It just is. Look at ND's ratings whenever they're remotely competitive nationally, they soar. That's not the 70s or 80s, that's 2006.

Are they slipping? Sure, a little. But the gap between them and the next tier is enormous.

All I can tell you is that they are valuable, very very valuable. Not sure what else to say.

 

[KaiserUEO]

for the record, i dont expect nd to join anyone. if they do it will be for the reasons i gave. ie: the $$ ran out and kids stay with the schools i named.

Syracuse, bc, wake, baylor...will never get ndesque recruits.

 

[Scooch]

for the record, i dont expect nd to join anyone. if they do it will be for the reasons i gave. ie: the $$ ran out and kids stay with the schools i named.

Syracuse, bc, wake, baylor...will never get ndesque recruits.

ND has beaten out just about every school you mentioned for recruits recently, for at least someone. And listing those other schools was kind of my point -- "ND kids" ain't choosing those schools after seeing South Bend. Sure some kids are going to choose Michigan and Ohio State, but some aren't. That's the way it's been for decades.

I know it's fun to preach doom-and-gloom for ND, but it's not reality. I mean it's been how long since they won a title? Shouldn't they have cratered by now if it was going to happen?

Kelly's had back-to-back 8-5 seasons. Let him notch a 10-2 and that'll propel them for another 5 years.

 

[TheOrangeBuddha]

There's no way The big10 forces Ped State out but if they did then the ACC should immediately take them in. In 5 to 10 years this scandal will be ancient history and Ped St will still be selling a hundred thousand tickets to home football games.

People outside of Pennsylvania will ALWAYS associate Penn State with the Sandusky child abuse and ridiculous cover-up by all involved. ALWAYS! To think this will blow over in even a decade is simply not understanding the true enormity of the situation at PSU.

 

[KaiserUEO]

ND has beaten out just about every school you mentioned for recruits recently, for at least someone. And listing those other schools was kind of my point -- "ND kids" ain't choosing those schools after seeing South Bend. Sure some kids are going to choose Michigan and Ohio State, but some aren't. That's the way it's been for decades.

I know it's fun to preach doom-and-gloom for ND, but it's not reality. I mean it's been how long since they won a title? Shouldn't they have cratered by now if it was going to happen?

Kelly's had back-to-back 8-5 seasons. Let him notch a 10-2 and that'll propel them for another 5 years.

Honestly, then u tv people are to blame.

U keep telling us how great they are, but its like paying for MASH, its sucked for years. The new bevo is like paying for 7 years of the new ophra channel...who knows if will be good.

If atmosphere was all recruits cared about then ole miss would be #1 every year.

 

[rrlbees]

Well, I don't think it would be out of any great desire for the B10 to have Buttgers. But as Mark said above, last kid standing.

My names not Mark.

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[rrlbees]

Yeah no way B1G forces Penn St out. I wish they would so the ACC could snap them up. They would complete that Eastern Football conference dreamt of in the 70s and 80s. But no way does the B1G cut off its own nose financially.

I don't think the B10 has the balls or morals to kick PedSt out either. Buy IF they did, the ACC would nt pick them up. They would get murdered if they did.

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[TexanMark]

My names not Mark.

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If it were you'd be so cool.

 

[44PRIDE]

I don't think the B10 has the balls or morals to kick PedSt out either. Buy IF they did, the ACC would nt pick them up. They would get murdered if they did.

Disagree with this one Bees...
If Penn State were to become available, I'd bet the ACC would hop on the first plane to Happy Valley with a contract in hand. Their next flight would be directly to South Bend with a "either you're in or you're out" ultimatum.

You gotta remember that at some point, this too shall pass...and Penn State will be a football school again. And based on how short the collective sports memory is in this country, it'd be worth whatever short-term PR hit comes with it.

 

[WickedOrange]

I think ND has been in the top ten maybe twice in the last 20 years. It's amazing how the brand is still as strong as it is. ND is mature blue chip company that pays a fat dividend.

You either love of hate ND, either way you watch them...

 

[Scooch]

Honestly, then u tv people are to blame.

U keep telling us how great they are, but its like paying for MASH, its sucked for years. The new bevo is like paying for 7 years of the new ophra channel...who knows if will be good.

If atmosphere was all recruits cared about then ole miss would be #1 every year.

TV is the last great bastion of democracy, my man.

Give the people what they want.

 

[rrlbees]

Disagree with this one Bees...
If Penn State were to become available, I'd bet the ACC would hop on the first plane to Happy Valley with a contract in hand. Their next flight would be directly to South Bend with a "either you're in or you're out" ultimatum.

You gotta remember that at some point, this too shall pass...and Penn State will be a football school again. And based on how short the collective sports memory is in this country, it'd be worth whatever short-term PR hit comes with it.

If they weren't damaged goods and the ACC would take them, then the b10 wouldn't boot them.

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[Townie72]

Disagree with this one Bees...
If Penn State were to become available, I'd bet the ACC would hop on the first plane to Happy Valley with a contract in hand. Their next flight would be directly to South Bend with a "either you're in or you're out" ultimatum.

You gotta remember that at some point, this too shall pass...and Penn State will be a football school again. And based on how short the collective sports memory is in this country, it'd be worth whatever short-term PR hit comes with it.

Not a chance. No way. If the Big10 expelled them they'd be radioactive. The ACC is far too "white glove" to do it.

Big 12, maybe. ACC never. Oh, I know they'd be an attractive property. But too much current stink attached to PSU.

 

[rrlbees]

Not a chance. No way. If the Big10 expelled them they'd be radioactive. The ACC is far too "white glove" to do it.

Big 12, maybe. ACC never. Oh, I know they'd be an attractive property. But too much current stink attached to PSU.

Yea, I agree and said the same thing. NFW, the ACC takes them if the B10 boots them. I bet they'd spend a decade as an independent. They'd be toxic.

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[Townie72]

Yea, I agree and said the same thing. NFW, the ACC takes them if the B10 boots them. I bet they'd spend a decade as an independent. They'd be toxic.

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I think people on here underestimate what can be done by PSU to react to this. If they create a clever campaign. Apologize. Talk about the things you are going to do to make sure things like this will never happen again at Penn State. Show real contrition heavily layered with symbolism they can skate by.

Afterall, look at our esteemed former President now seen as an elder statesman. The guy was caught having an intern performing fellatio on him in the White House and then lying about it until a semen stained dress provided incontrovertible proof.

The guy had some counseling sessions and made some apologies and I'd say he's pretty much rehabilitated himself. Its as if nothing happened. The American people are pretty willing to forgive and forget.

Now the crimes in the PSU case were much worse. But still and all... The White House? The President?

PSU needs to dust off the "Animal House" speech that Otter gave about "a few bad apples". You can't punish tens of thousands for the crimes of a few.

I know this sounds terribly cynical and it is. But we haven't heard from PSU yet. They have to be planning a campaign to regain their reputation.

 

[texasorange]

I would use the example of Dave Bliss & the Baylor men's baketball program to show how soon the public forgets things. I know the crimes are different, but it did involve the death of a player & a coach's attempt to smear the deceased athlete's reputation to c.y.a..

 

[SUinNYC]

I would use the example of Dave Bliss & the Baylor men's baketball program to show how soon the public forgets things. I know the crimes are different, but it did involve the death of a player & a coach's attempt to smear the deceased athlete's reputation to c.y.a..

The difference between this and Baylor is that this went on for 14 years after the coach/AD/President found out about it.