Next step for ACC?

[javadoc]

There's an article today that the US Department of Education is launching an investigation. They control the Federal dollars that go to Penn State. If the feds start turning that tap off, there's going to be some real pain on campus. And they are just the first of the vultures ready to start savaging the carcass.

This would be a good way to sidestep the entire issue of NCAA jurisdiction etc., if it comes to pass. Bring pain through the Clery Act, enough so that PSU recognizes, internally, that they have to do something about the football program.

 

[Townie72]

That's nuts. Why would those schools give up the Big East brand? They can just add those schools. The BE football schools will probably be gone in a few years.

They may not have to given that the only Eastern schools remaining in the NNBE --- if the Catholics pull out --- will be Rutgers and UConn. So there will be very little "Eastern" about that crowd.

The Big East name is only worth so much. What do Georgetown and Villanova have in common with San Diego State, Boise State, Houston and SMU? The answer is "almost nothing".

The New Catholic East and Midwest Conference would be reasonably compact geographically and have schools in it that have a great deal in common. They would blanket the urban centers of the Northeast and Mid-West. New England (Providence), New York, NJ, Phila, DC, Cincinnati, Northern Ohio, Chicago and Milwaukee. They could borrow a page from the original Big East and add teams from St Louis and Pittsburgh and have them upgrade.

It would be small enough so that they could play home and home against all members. And they could toggle the championship between NY and Chicago.

Notre Dame would be way happier in the Catholic East and Midwest Conference. It's better academically. Its much easier travelling. And there isn't the football schism.

 

[kingottoiii]

The New Catholic East and Midwest Conference would be reasonably compact geographically and have schools in it that have a great deal in common. They would blanket the urban centers of the Northeast and Mid-West. New England (Providence), New York, NJ, Phila, DC, Cincinnati, Northern Ohio, Chicago and Milwaukee. They could borrow a page from the original Big East and add teams from St Louis and Pittsburgh and have them upgrade.

I agree that would be great for the current BE BBall teams. However ND plays a lot of sports besides BBall that those schools don't play or are not very competitive. That is the issue for ND, otherwise it would have happened by now. Does ND really want to have to park its sports in several conferences just so they can have a clean BBall conference? Even BBall would be a shell of the current BE without UConn and Louisville. Those two schools are the only other ADs besides ND that has any brand left.

If I am the ACC then I would go to ESPN and try and get $20 million more a year for adding non FB ND sports plus a guaranteed 2 ND FB games a year. Wouldn't that be worth it for ESPN? Then the ACC can give $5 million a year to ND (which is more than they get now from the BE) and an extra $1 million more to each team (making everyone happy).

Also I would look to have ND (as long as they are 8-4 or better) be the team that the ACC plays in the Orange Bowl. Based on what the Rose Bowl got I would guess the Orange would get at least $60 million for that setup. The ACC can keep $40 million to keep up with the Joneses and pay ND/at large team $20 million.

ND isn't joining a conference for FB unless 1. you need to be a conf champ to make the playoffs (doubt it ever happens) or 2. the major confs split from the NCAA to create their own division. IMO that is it. When/if ND is forced to join wouldn't it make sense to have a strong relationship with them? To have them already in your conf for everything else where they would have to pay a buyout to leave? Wouldn't taking them for non FB and paying them $5 million a year be a good investment?

So here is how I would add ND:

-ND joins for non FB starting in 2015-16 and gets paid $5 million a year

-ND agrees to play 4 games a year vs ACC teams (2 home, 2 away)

-ND agrees that they will play every ACC team at least once home and away during the current TV contract (which will have 12 years left when ND joins).

Currently ND has the following ACC teams scheduled during that span:

2015- Wake, @Pitt, SU, @BC

2016- Miami, Pitt, BC, @SU. Miami would need to be moved to a road game to comply.

2017- @Miami, @SU plus they have three open slots to add two ACC home games and another ACC game if they choose.

2018- BC plus they have five open slots to add two ACC road games, one ACC home game, and any other ACC game if they choose.

2019- @BC plus they have five open slots to add two ACC home games, one ACC roadgame, and any other ACC game if they choose.

2020- they have five open slots to fit a minimum 4 ACC games (2 H and 2 R)

2021- they have six open slots to fit a minimum 4 ACC games (2 H and 2 R)

-----Edit----

Also this helps ND with any scheduling/SOS problems they may encounter with confs going to 9 games, so it is a benefit to them as well.

 

[KaiserUEO]

i find it extremely laughable that bc blocked storz. if the ACC wanted storz, it would have storz.

they didnt want storz, nobody wants storz.

lville, cincy, possibly usf, and yes rutgers...are all higher on the food chain than storz st.

 

[kingottoiii]

Kind of a tangent here but from the GA Tech board here are the ACC conf game records since last expansion:

VT 46-10​

GT 37-19​

Clem 34-22​

BC 33-23​

FSU 32-24​

Miami 28-28​

Wake 27-29​

UNC 24-32​

UVA 24-32​

NCSU 23-33​

MD 22-34​

Duke 6-50​

Its funny that some BE fans still make light of BC's move as being unsuccessful. It seems clear who the Top 5 should be going forward, as well as the bottom one. Which leaves a dog fight between the other 8 schools. It should be fun. ​

 

[KaiserUEO]

one of these days, Syracuse will have a successful football progam like bc.

 

[44PRIDE]

one of these days, Syracuse will have a successful football progam like bc.

dare to dream...

 

[baggerbob]

Its interesting to see 3 of top 6 are Big East teams and Miami has been down for awhile.

 

[CaliCuse]

I heard this from a friend of mine who is very well connected at Notre Dame. Therefore, it may have at least an iota of truth in it.

ND has a standing offer from the ACC, and ND has been very interested in it. However, the decision to have a four-team NC playoff .. without regard to conference affiliation... has slowed the process down.

ND really likes the ACC's non-revenue sports, especially its women sports. They consider them to be ND's best conference fit.

The Big 10 is out of the picture. They were left standing at the altar twice ... when ND walked away just before the ceremony reached the "I do" stage. It is doubtful that the Big 10 will risk that kind of embarrassment a third time.

If/when ND joins the ACC UConn will be the team that comes in with them.

As I said... all of the above is from a friend of mine who is very close to Notre Dame. I have no independent way to verify any of it.

Its probably true . ND will stall as long as there is any chance that a NC game can be achieved without a conference affiliation They are perfectly willing to take it all I'm not thrilled with UONN coming in with them.:bat:

 

[xc84]

They may not have to given that the only Eastern schools remaining in the NNBE --- if the Catholics pull out --- will be Rutgers and UConn. So there will be very little "Eastern" about that crowd.

The Big East name is only worth so much. What do Georgetown and Villanova have in common with San Diego State, Boise State, Houston and SMU? The answer is "almost nothing".

The New Catholic East and Midwest Conference would be reasonably compact geographically and have schools in it that have a great deal in common. They would blanket the urban centers of the Northeast and Mid-West. New England (Providence), New York, NJ, Phila, DC, Cincinnati, Northern Ohio, Chicago and Milwaukee. They could borrow a page from the original Big East and add teams from St Louis and Pittsburgh and have them upgrade.

It would be small enough so that they could play home and home against all members. And they could toggle the championship between NY and Chicago.

Notre Dame would be way happier in the Catholic East and Midwest Conference. It's better academically. Its much easier travelling. And there isn't the football schism.

Ok...let me put it another way. The Catholic schools in the BE...many who are founding members, will not give up the Big East brand. Granted, the football schools may leave... but that will just leave the BE with a conference that was envisioned from the start...and the Big East brand/name will be intact. They will not "leave" the BE.

 

[Townie72]

Ok...let me put it another way. The Catholic schools in the BE...many who are founding members, will not give up the Big East brand. Granted, the football schools may leave... but that will just leave the BE with a conference that was envisioned from the start...and the Big East brand/name will be intact. They will not "leave" the BE.

Look, I get it. But, you are picking nits about who "leaves" whom and overlooking the larger point. That being that Notre Dame has a very attractive alternative to the ACC and that is an All Catholic Conference that include members of the NNBE and adds some schools to fill the Conference out.

Of course, they'd like to maximize the benefits they get by holding on to as much of the Big East "brand" as they can. But it's not a "show stopper". It's a "nice to have".

But, as you point out, the All Catholic Conference envisioned has many of the attributes that made the original Big East such a great conference. It's small enough, geographically compact, located in many of the major metro areas and the schools have a great deal in common. They already have "rivalries" with Georgetown, Villanova and Marquette. Add in some additional Catholic schools in some key areas and you are recreating the original Dave Gavitt Big East formula.

 

[longtimefan]

Look, I get it. But, you are picking nits about who "leaves" whom and overlooking the larger point. That being that Notre Dame has a very attractive alternative to the ACC and that is an All Catholic Conference that include members of the NNBE and adds some schools to fill the Conference out.

Of course, they'd like to maximize the benefits they get by holding on to as much of the Big East "brand" as they can. But it's not a "show stopper". It's a "nice to have".

But, as you point out, the All Catholic Conference envisioned has many of the attributes that made the original Big East such a great conference. It's small enough, geographically compact, located in many of the major metro areas and the schools have a great deal in common. They already have "rivalries" with Georgetown, Villanova and Marquette. Add in some additional Catholic schools in some key areas and you are recreating the original Dave Gavitt Big East formula.

It works for basketball, but, as pointed out above, not for Olympic sports or women's sports. But, maybe just basketball is enough to make it work.

And, it's hard to say that ND, Marquette and DePaul were part of Gavitt's original blueprint.

 

[NKR1978]

Look, I get it. But, you are picking nits about who "leaves" whom and overlooking the larger point. That being that Notre Dame has a very attractive alternative to the ACC and that is an All Catholic Conference that include members of the NNBE and adds some schools to fill the Conference out.

I think Notre Dame may feel the Parochial League is good enough - but they would provide almost no competition to ND in any sport except for basketball and cross country. I don't think ND wants to join a conference where they basically win everything all the time. But they'll definitely make due in the Big Catholic if need be.

 

[xc84]

Look, I get it. But, you are picking nits about who "leaves" whom and overlooking the larger point. That being that Notre Dame has a very attractive alternative to the ACC and that is an All Catholic Conference that include members of the NNBE and adds some schools to fill the Conference out.

Of course, they'd like to maximize the benefits they get by holding on to as much of the Big East "brand" as they can. But it's not a "show stopper". It's a "nice to have".

But, as you point out, the All Catholic Conference envisioned has many of the attributes that made the original Big East such a great conference. It's small enough, geographically compact, located in many of the major metro areas and the schools have a great deal in common. They already have "rivalries" with Georgetown, Villanova and Marquette. Add in some additional Catholic schools in some key areas and you are recreating the original Dave Gavitt Big East formula.

You said these schools would form their own, new conference i.e. "pull out". Sure, ND might stay with these schools. I have no problem with that...which is why I didn't comment on it. I was just saying that those Catholic schools would not "pull out"...they will stay and keep the brand they helped built instead of starting from scratch tying to build a new brand. I think that is important to the conversation and not nit-picking.

 

[Townie72]

It works for basketball, but, as pointed out above, not for Olympic sports or women's sports. But, maybe just basketball is enough to make it work.

And, it's hard to say that ND, Marquette and DePaul were part of Gavitt's original blueprint.

How does it not work for Olympic sports? Travel for all these teams would be greatly decreased. And the real academic schools actually worry about the time used by students is at least as important as the costs.

And the new conference would have the same basic "model" as made the original Big East so successful. A different set of schools, but the same basic approach ... large markets, small(er) geographic footprint, home and home round-robin scheduling, natural rivalries because of similarities between the schools

 

[kingottoiii]

How does it not work for Olympic sports?

Those schools are not competitive. Here are the Director Cup standings for those schools:

ND 58 and 14

GTown 34 and 49
Nova 37 and 73
Marq 61 and 77
St Johns 105 and 68
PC 77 and 138
Depaul NR and 169
Seton Hall NR and NR

Candidates to get to 10 teams:

Xavier 132 and 129
St Louis NR and 169
Detroit NR and 203
Butler NR and NR
Duquesne NR and NR

Does ND really want to put its sports in that conference?

 

[xc84]

Those schools are not competitive. Here are the Director Cup standings for those schools:

ND 58 and 14

GTown 34 and 49
Nova 37 and 73
Marq 61 and 77
St Johns 105 and 68
PC 77 and 138
Depaul NR and 169
Seton Hall NR and NR

Candidates to get to 10 teams:

Xavier 132 and 129
St Louis NR and 169
Detroit NR and 203
Butler NR and NR
Duquesne NR and NR

Does ND really want to put its sports in that conference?

Isn't the Director cup standings about NCAA championships? Not sure what that has to do with a conference. In addition, many of those schools have excellent programs in various sports. So, ND will always have some real conference competition no matter the sport.

 

[longtimefan]

How does it not work for Olympic sports? Travel for all these teams would be greatly decreased. And the real academic schools actually worry about the time used by students is at least as important as the costs.

And the new conference would have the same basic "model" as made the original Big East so successful. A different set of schools, but the same basic approach ... large markets, small(er) geographic footprint, home and home round-robin scheduling, natural rivalries because of similarities between the schools

1.) Because ND will lack competition in many Olympic sports.

2.) It originally *was* called the Big East for a reason. Chicago and Milwaukee don't fit into that foot print.

 

[OrangeHeel]

Look, I get it. But, you are picking nits about who "leaves" whom and overlooking the larger point. That being that Notre Dame has a very attractive alternative to the ACC and that is an All Catholic Conference that include members of the NNBE and adds some schools to fill the Conference out.

Of course, they'd like to maximize the benefits they get by holding on to as much of the Big East "brand" as they can. But it's not a "show stopper". It's a "nice to have".

Is the ACC & the A(ll) C(atholic) C(onference) the same thing?


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[Czar]

Pure nonsense. ND went all the way to the edge of joining the Big Ten a number of years ago. Their football schedule features a number of Big10 schools. No such "bad blood" exists. The Big10 would love to have ND join. They may hesitant to go all the way through the application process another time without some upfront guarantees from ND that if an invitation is extended they will accept it. But that's about it.

The Big 10 tried to kill Notre Dame a long time ago. They will never join the Big 10 until all of those people are dead and in the ground, which is a long time from now. Also Michigan isn't that big of a rival for them.