Next step for ACC?

[JoeCollege]

I don't think the B10 has the balls or morals to kick PedSt out either. Buy IF they did, the ACC would nt pick them up. They would get murdered if they did.

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Not sure kicking them out is the answer. Punishes academic side of the house (CIC) of one of the nation's premier research institutions. Also punishes baseball, volleyball, etc. I guess it might help men's hoops, because watching that program flounder has been more than enough suffering for what fans they have.

But a 1 year (minimum) suspension from football league play (served concurrently with any death penalty the NCAA hands down, which, they are, they won't) would be a strong enough statement from the league for my thinking.

 

[TexanMark]

Not sure kicking them out is the answer. Punishes academic side of the house (CIC) of one of the nation's premier research institutions. Also punishes baseball, volleyball, etc. I guess it might help men's hoops, because watching that program flounder has been more than enough suffering for what fans they have.

But a 1 year (minimum) suspension from football league play (served concurrently with any death penalty the NCAA hands down, which, they are, they won't) would be a strong enough statement from the league for my thinking.

Not sure that would be severe enough...SMU got hit worse just because they pissed off fellow cheaters of the SWC.

I think 2 years No Football, Years 3-5 No Bowl Games...all players can transfer without penalty plus on a case by case basis they can apply for an extra year of eligibility.

 

[kingottoiii]

I think people on here underestimate what can be done by PSU to react to this. If they create a clever campaign. Apologize. Talk about the things you are going to do to make sure things like this will never happen again at Penn State. Show real contrition heavily layered with symbolism they can skate by.

I agree that can be done. However I think you are overestimating the sanity at PSU. The place is a cult. Has always been. They all believed that JoePa was a deity. They all had that drilled into their heads for nearly 50 years. They all believe in the Penn State way and that nothing they do is ever wrong. They have very few outsiders come into the PSU community so there is little outside perspective. They are totally sheltered in their way of thinking. That is why the NCAA or B1G needs to come down on them. PSU cannot fix this themselves because they are all part of the problem. The cover up is sickening. But the mind set in Central PA is scary. Especially in this day in age.

 

[KaiserUEO]

this talk about them being kicked out of the b1g is nonsense.

the football team is in real trouble.

other than that, i cant see the b1g doing anything other than hurting them in their wallet.

but let me be clear...they are certainly ped st from now till eternity.

we are...ped st. enjoy you fools.

 

[xc84]

PSU will not be booted from B10.

I still think ND fits well into the ACC. I know all the counter arguments but time will tell.

 

[44PRIDE]

 

[SU2NASA]

They already have a new mascot.

 

[Townie72]

I agree that can be done. However I think you are overestimating the sanity at PSU. The place is a cult. Has always been. They all believed that JoePa was a deity. They all had that drilled into their heads for nearly 50 years. They all believe in the Penn State way and that nothing they do is ever wrong. They have very few outsiders come into the PSU community so there is little outside perspective. They are totally sheltered in their way of thinking. That is why the NCAA or B1G needs to come down on them. PSU cannot fix this themselves because they are all part of the problem. The cover up is sickening. But the mind set in Central PA is scary. Especially in this day in age.

I worked for a long time in a once-great corporation where people were similarly isolated and inwardly-focused. I understand the concept ... although PSU seems to be an extreme case as you describe it.

But sooner or later --- like in the Roman Empire --- people start to understand that not only are the Huns at the gate, they are successfully scaling the walls. Maybe when that first burning spear comes through the window and sticks in the table between the grapes and the lamb and horrifies the dinner guests that people start to catch on.

There's an article today that the US Department of Education is launching an investigation. They control the Federal dollars that go to Penn State. If the feds start turning that tap off, there's going to be some real pain on campus. And they are just the first of the vultures ready to start savaging the carcass.

What we haven't really heard yet --- except for a few peeps --- is a cry to do away with or greatly diminish football. That it is corrupting the Universities. That its out of control. That's coming.

 

[Cuseman78]

I agree that can be done. However I think you are overestimating the sanity at PSU. The place is a cult. Has always been. They all believed that JoePa was a deity. They all had that drilled into their heads for nearly 50 years. They all believe in the Penn State way and that nothing they do is ever wrong. They have very few outsiders come into the PSU community so there is little outside perspective. They are totally sheltered in their way of thinking. That is why the NCAA or B1G needs to come down on them. PSU cannot fix this themselves because they are all part of the problem. The cover up is sickening. But the mind set in Central PA is scary. Especially in this day in age.

Yup. Townie laid out beautifully the steps that could be taken to get themselves back into the good graces of the American public. However, how are we to believe that the schools leadership is willing to take those steps when they have so far refused to do something that so obviously needs to be done (removing Paterno's status)?

You still have people sleeping under his freakin' statue so that it doesn't get bulldozed in the middle of the night.

 

[SU2NASA]

Yup. Townie laid out beautifully the steps that could be taken to get themselves back into the good graces of the American public. However, how are we to believe that the "school" leadership is willing to take those steps when they have so far refused to do something that so obviously needs to be done (removing Paterno's status)?

You still have people sleeping under his freakin' statue so that it doesn't get bulldozed in the middle of the night.

Fixed.

 

[WoadBlue]

I heard this from a friend of mine who is very well connected at Notre Dame. Therefore, it may have at least an iota of truth in it.

ND has a standing offer from the ACC, and ND has been very interested in it. However, the decision to have a four-team NC playoff .. without regard to conference affiliation... has slowed the process down.

ND really likes the ACC's non-revenue sports, especially its women sports. They consider them to be ND's best conference fit.

The Big 10 is out of the picture. They were left standing at the altar twice ... when ND walked away just before the ceremony reached the "I do" stage. It is doubtful that the Big 10 will risk that kind of embarrassment a third time.

If/when ND joins the ACC UConn will be the team that comes in with them.

As I said... all of the above is from a friend of mine who is very close to Notre Dame. I have no independent way to verify any of it.

ND has had a standing offer from the ACC since we expanded to 12.

Your friend is correct that the ACC's non-revenue sports mean a great deal to NBC, but he may overstate the women part. That is big for ND, but ACC baseball and men's lacrosse and soccer are also major draws. Non-revenue sports are very big with ND alums, and save for water sports, which ND does not do, the ACC is the best.

He did not mention ACC basketball? ND basketball wants to be in as big a conference with as large a national TV drawing power as possible. Even with the ACC down a good deal, we are a clear #2 to the Big Ten in total basketball viewers nationally. With Syracuse and Pitt, our quality rises and so will our viewership. BE basketball was drawing fewer viewers than the SEC, and that will get worse for the BE without Cuse and Pitt and adding UCF and SMU.

I think if/when ND joins the ACC, it is going to want Navy in ACC football, because ND has played Navy more than any school and intends to play Navy annually forever.

 

[WoadBlue]

Makes sense to me. The ACC already established the pecking order...they wanted SU #1, UConn #2 and Pitt #3.

If the ACC expands again, BC will surely try and block UConn from getting in. But things will be different.

However, I believe SU and Pitt. if push came to shove, would prefer to bring UConn into the conference before Rutgers.

SU obviously wants the NYC market and sees NJ as a valuable recruiting area for football. UConn is not nearly the threat to the NYC market that RU is. Connecticut is not nearly the fertile recruiting area that NJ is.

Pitt has historically relied on NJ for football recruiting very heavily (and doesn't recruit New England almost at all). Further, they recruit NYC and NJ hard for basketball. A strong RU would hurt Pitt. They will do what they can to prevent that, as will Syracuse. With SU and Pitt voting as a block, I don't see BC being able to keep UConn out. Especially since the ACC clearly wanted UConn over Pitt (and Rutgers) in the first place.

The day SU and Pitt came into the ACC was the day RU's fate was sealed, at least as far as the ACC goes. I don't see them in the conference unless there are are defections.

Some people in the ACC wanted UConn, and others did not. Pitt was a clear choice over UConn if for no other reason than its football rivalry with ND, making Pitt a very attractive ACC member to help draw ND later.

If ND joins, ND basically will name its joining partner.

 

[sutomcat]

Some people in the ACC wanted UConn, and others did not. Pitt was a clear choice over UConn if for no other reason than its football rivalry with ND, making Pitt a very attractive ACC member to help draw ND later.

If ND joins, ND basically will name its joining partner.

I am not arguing one way or the other on the merits of UConn and Pitt. There were numerous media reports that SU was the first choice of the ACC for the second round of expansion and UConn was second. When BC balked on UConn, they were replaced by Pitt.

Are you saying that story is not true? I think this is all based on what the BC AD said in an ill advised interview. Did he lie to make it sound like BC trumped UConn? What really happened?

 

[longtimefan]

ND doesn't have to join the ACC and send the women's volleyball team all over the Eastern seaboard from Indiana. They can easily stick with the Catholic schools and be Kings of the Hill.

On the other hand, they will be sending their women's volleyball teams to Houston, SMU, Memphis and UCF.

 

[Townie72]

On the other hand, they will be sending their women's volleyball teams to Houston, SMU, Memphis and UCF.

I'm suggesting that the Catholics split from the Big East and add Notre Dame plus Xavier, Dayton, maybe St Louis, possible St Joes.

The new Catholic Conference with ND as its only Di football member would look very much like the original 1982 Big East

 

[baggerbob]

Notre Dame orchestrated the new football conglomeration, almost as if when it blows up,or fails miserably it gives them an excuse to leave.

 

[omniorange]

I am not arguing one way or the other on the merits of UConn and Pitt. There were numerous media reports that SU was the first choice of the ACC for the second round of expansion and UConn was second. When BC balked on UConn, they were replaced by Pitt.

Are you saying that story is not true? I think this is all based on what the BC AD said in an ill advised interview. Did he lie to make it sound like BC trumped UConn? What really happened?

I agree with Woad here. Those numerous "reports" as I remember it all seemed to originate in the northeast. The guy to follow on this was David Glenn of the ACC Sports Journal and I remember an article that he did about week prior to the announcement that it was Texas and SU and if Texas said no it would be Pitt.

Also specifically recall reading that the reason why it had to be done fast was that if Texas did indeed say no, which looked like it was going to happen, the Big 12 (with Texas' approval) was going to approach Pitt as an expansion candidate.

Both the ACC and Texas believed (and probably still do believe) that Pitt was a key to possibly getting ND down the road. This factor alone would put them ahead of UConn in the pecking order, imho, even if Pitt's football brand wasn't way ahead of the Huskies, which it is.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Chip]

I agree that can be done. However I think you are overestimating the sanity at PSU. The place is a cult. Has always been. They all believed that JoePa was a deity. They all had that drilled into their heads for nearly 50 years. They all believe in the Penn State way and that nothing they do is ever wrong. They have very few outsiders come into the PSU community so there is little outside perspective. They are totally sheltered in their way of thinking. That is why the NCAA or B1G needs to come down on them. PSU cannot fix this themselves because they are all part of the problem. The cover up is sickening. But the mind set in Central PA is scary. Especially in this day in age.

Somewhere out there, actually they are spread throughout the country, there's a small group of people hoping, praying that Penn State does not clean this up quickly and that the B1G kicks them out.

Those people are called Big East fans, and they are finally thinking their wish may come true.

 

[longtimefan]

The new Catholic Conference with ND as its only Di football member would look very much like the original 1982 Big East

Except for SU and BC (and football-playing Pitt may have been a member by 1982).

 

[xc84]

I'm suggesting that the Catholics split from the Big East and add Notre Dame plus Xavier, Dayton, maybe St Louis, possible St Joes.

The new Catholic Conference with ND as its only Di football member would look very much like the original 1982 Big East

That's nuts. Why would those schools give up the Big East brand? They can just add those schools. The BE football schools will probably be gone in a few years.

 

[tipphill]

People outside of Pennsylvania will ALWAYS associate Penn State with the Sandusky child abuse and ridiculous cover-up by all involved. ALWAYS! To think this will blow over in even a decade is simply not understanding the true enormity of the situation at PSU.

unfortunately i disagree in 5-10 years this will have disapated dramatically

 

[Scooch]

I agree with Woad here. Those numerous "reports" as I remember it all seemed to originate in the northeast. The guy to follow on this was David Glenn of the ACC Sports Journal and I remember an article that he did about week prior to the announcement that it was Texas and SU and if Texas said no it would be Pitt.

Also specifically recall reading that the reason why it had to be done fast was that if Texas did indeed say no, which looked like it was going to happen, the Big 12 (with Texas' approval) was going to approach Pitt as an expansion candidate.

Both the ACC and Texas believed (and probably still do believe) that Pitt was a key to possibly getting ND down the road. This factor alone would put them ahead of UConn in the pecking order, imho, even if Pitt's football brand wasn't way ahead of the Huskies, which it is.

Cheers,
Neil

Sometimes I just can't follow this stuff. Why would Pitt be a key to getting ND? I mean, a key so important that the ACC had to race to invite them lest the B12 get them? I'm not disputing it, I just don't understand why.

And the premise of Pitt over UConn, as some would tell it, is that BC "blocked" UConn. This of course is utterly laughable. I think half the current membership of the ACC still doesn't know that BC is in the conference.

 

[prez41]

Sometimes I just can't follow this stuff. Why would Pitt be a key to getting ND? I mean, a key so important that the ACC had to race to invite them lest the B12 get them? I'm not disputing it, I just don't understand why.

And the premise of Pitt over UConn, as some would tell it, is that BC "blocked" UConn. This of course is utterly laughable. I think half the current membership of the ACC still doesn't know that BC is in the conference.

I have no inside knowledge, but I have heard many times over the years that the higher-ups at Pitt and ND play nice with each other. I am not sure to what extent, though.

 

[omniorange]

Sometimes I just can't follow this stuff. Why would Pitt be a key to getting ND? I mean, a key so important that the ACC had to race to invite them lest the B12 get them? I'm not disputing it, I just don't understand why.

And the premise of Pitt over UConn, as some would tell it, is that BC "blocked" UConn. This of course is utterly laughable. I think half the current membership of the ACC still doesn't know that BC is in the conference.

To the first part of your post... Does it really need to make sense to us? It's been my thinking now for a while that conference expansion is a lot like chess or perhaps more like the old board game War. You want certain pieces or territories for both their overall value and their strategic placement in getting/capturing other pieces or territories. Doesn't mean you will get those other pieces or territories, but if there is even the slightest possibility of them assisting in that, it increases their overall value.

The latter part of your post is spot on.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Scooch]

Thanks Neil. I get your point, just didn't know if I was missing something tangible re: Pitt and ND. Guess not!