Next year's OL

[RF2044]

Watching this Georgia / Oklahoma game, it is amazing to watch how good their offensive lines are. Such an important factor if you want to be competitive against top flight competition.

Last year's OL took a solid step forward -- and that was after losing a guy in camp who was our most experienced returnee. And I think it is important for the long term performance of the positional unit that we have been able to redshirt the majority of OL prospects we've landed in each of Baber's first two recruiting classes. So now we're in a cycle where we don't have to rush guys out onto the field to plug holes and field a two-deep anymore.

Last year's line took some steps forward throughout the course of the season despite starting two redshirt freshmen -- who are only at the front end of their developmental curves. We also started a guy at RT who maximized his ability, but was fairly limited. Tackles were our weak spot. McGloster was barely adequate [not knocking him, just making the observation] and I'm not sure that our LT is a difference maker. I like Conway, not knocking him either, just pointing out that I'm not sure that he rates as an NFL prospect [as a data point]. I wish we'd had the opportunity to redshirt HIM so that he wouldn't be a senior next year.

So what to expect next year? What's the progression that we can expect from this group?

• Well, for one thing, we return four starters, and I can't think of a more important positional unit where having continuity with personnel is more important than OL.

• Players like Servais / Heckel are now experienced players, and should be better after another offseason of being immersed in our S&C program.

• Evan Adams is a load, and Conway returns for his senior year, and will hopefully make my assessment above look unwarranted.

• With Sampson out of the picture [who would have been a January enrollee], presumably Servais stays at Center.

• The big question for this group in my mind is: who plays RT? Does a player like Heckel or Adams slide outside? Does big Mike Clark play his way onto the field?

• Does Aaron Roberts stake a claim to the starting LG role, or does he get passed in the rotation?

• Do either of the Davis frosh impact the two deep [really interested to see Patrick, in particular]?

• Does Qadir White redshirt [as expected] to improve his technique / conditioning, or does he make a push to see the field?

• Does Andrejas Duering make a push as a fourth-year junior, or is he just taking up space?

• Where does Liam O'Sullivan fit into the rotation, if at all?

• Will a year of experience under the core group's belt help them clean up all the miscues / false start penalties?

Again, it was really impressive to watch two rock solid teams duking it out, and seeing how well both OL's performed [against quality defensive fronts]. It was a stark reminder about how far we have to go to be consistently GOOD, let alone "very good" or "great." The raw materials are being added -- it will be interesting to see how long it takes the coaching staff to bake the right ingredients. Improved OL play would go a LONG way toward making our already formidable offense an even bigger weapon. I don't think we can take the next step until the collective play of the OL takes the next step.

 

[RandomGuy]

All frosh redshirt. All along, my guess has been Servais and Adams move toward the outside. Maybe Adams goes to RT, but I can't find his speed #'s, so may be better kept at guard. Servais is the quickest(4.61 shuttle, 4.97 40)I expected RT, but I'm not sure they'll be a viable option at C - so I'm guessing he'll have to stay.(potential LT in 2) IF Clark can be trusted at RT, then I think the the rest of the line stays the same. Clark needed dramatic increase in S + C from high school, though. (only benched 245) Roberts regains his position.(Heckel #2) I think the biggest battles will be at G C G, especially for the #2. If there is a viable C, Servais to RT. With more possible Guards, can Adams play RT?

O'Sullivan was #2 behind Conway. Dunno if that changes. If he's the 2cnd best LT, is it better to keep him there, or slide him to RT?

As far as Patrick Davis. He's older, but they didn't burn his shirt. Heckel was the # 2. Is it learning the sys, or did Heckel beat him out? I don't think Heckel slides outside.

 

[SoBristol]

Watching that semi-final game, it is striking what we don't have in several units -- RB & secondary stood out for me. But let's start with the OL.

Coach Babers said that Adams was his 3rd best OT (in case of an injury to one of the starters). I expect they move Adams to R-OT, returning Roberts to G if he is 100%, and working to develop cohesion with this unit. Some of the others mentioned above (Colin Byrne, Patrick Davis, and Mike Clark) should be next up, and they provide the primary depth for this unit.

We have experience, do we have an ACC quality group? Do we have candidates for all-league mention (even 3rd team, or honorable mention) or anyone projected to be drafted? I don't see it yet, but this group might round out to be significantly better than what we had in 2017 as Servais and Heckel make expected improvement through S&C. Give us a running game, please.

 

[RandomGuy]

Watching that semi-final game, it is striking what we don't have in several units -- RB & secondary stood out for me. But let's start with the OL.

Coach Babers said that Adams was his 3rd best OT (in case of an injury to one of the starters). I expect they move Adams to R-OT, returning Roberts to G if he is 100%, and working to develop cohesion with this unit. Some of the others mentioned above (Colin Byrne, Patrick Davis, and Mike Clark) should be next up, and they provide the primary depth for this unit.

We have experience, do we have an ACC quality group? Do we have candidates for all-league mention (even 3rd team, or honorable mention) or anyone projected to be drafted? I don't see it yet, but this group might round out to be significantly better than what we had in 2017 as Servais and Heckel make expected improvement through S&C. Give us a running game, please.

Who is #2?
Conway 1. If Adams to RT then Heckel the other G? Makes sense.

Yes. Run game please.

 

[sutomcat]

I think Conway is a lock at LT.
I think Roberts is a lock at LG.
I think Adams is very close to a lock at RG.

I think Servais is headed to RT, with Heckel at C.

No question in my mind Servais is the best we have at RT, and yes, he will probably move to LT after Conway graduates.

The question is, are the other options are C besides Servais better than the other options at RT besides Servais?

I think there is a reason Heckel got a lot of practice reps at C. The staff knows he is better suited to C than OG, where he was routinely dominated and abused this season. Hopefully he works on technique and works hard in the weight room to avoid similar problems in 2018. The other options at C are the two Davises and maybe Colin Byrne. Colin is a full time OG now so I think the staff closed that door a while ago. I like Pat Davis and think he is going to be a starter some day. If someone else ends up starting at C, would not be surprised it ends up being Pat Davis. Haven't seen enough of Dakota to have an opinion yet.

The other options at RT are Clark, O'Sullivan, Willem and Qadir. Qadir has a lot of potential but his body needs to be reshaped and I don't see him hitting the floor running. The jump from the competition he played against in NYC to the ACC is huge. O'Sullivan needs to work in the weight room for a couple of years to have a chance to be ready. At RandomGuy says, while Clark isn't as skinny as O'Sullivan, you can see he has work to do to fill out his body. He has some athleticism, but is probably another year away from being ready to play. That leaves Willem, who has the body to play even now. He has a big jump up in competition too and it is asking a lot for a teenager to compete against grown men. Really like him but it would be great to red-shirt him and have him ready to start from day one in 2019.

Hence, this is why I think Servais ends up our RT and Heckel our C.

 

[shu 49]

I know in Georgia game, there were some big holes too run through. My fat butt could have hit a few of them and got 5 yds without being touched and I run about a 6 sec 40 downhill with a push and tailwind. They were huge holes. I want that for our Line.

 

[RandomGuy]

I think Conway is a lock at LT.
I think Roberts is a lock at LG.
I think Adams is very close to a lock at RG.

I think Servais is headed to RT, with Heckel at C.

No question in my mind Servais is the best we have at RT, and yes, he will probably move to LT after Conway graduates.

The question is, are the other options are C besides Servais better than the other options at RT besides Servais?

I think there is a reason Heckel got a lot of practice reps at C. The staff knows he is better suited to C than OG, where he was routinely dominated and abused this season. Hopefully he works on technique and works hard in the weight room to avoid similar problems in 2018. The other options at C are the two Davises and maybe Colin Byrne. Colin is a full time OG now so I think the staff closed that door a while ago. I like Pat Davis and think he is going to be a starter some day. If someone else ends up starting at C, would not be surprised it ends up being Pat Davis. Haven't seen enough of Dakota to have an opinion yet.

The other options at RT are Clark, O'Sullivan, Willem and Qadir. Qadir has a lot of potential but his body needs to be reshaped and I don't see him hitting the floor running. The jump from the competition he played against in NYC to the ACC is huge. O'Sullivan needs to work in the weight room for a couple of years to have a chance to be ready. At RandomGuy says, while Clark isn't as skinny as O'Sullivan, you can see he has work to do to fill out his body. He has some athleticism, but is probably another year away from being ready to play. That leaves Willem, who has the body to play even now. He has a big jump up in competition too and it is asking a lot for a teenager to compete against grown men. Really like him but it would be great to red-shirt him and have him ready to start from day one in 2019.

Hence, this is why I think Servais ends up our RT and Heckel our C.

I think every incoming, redshirts.

I think Servais is the most athletic, but he also raises questions. Pro fb focus routinely graded him the lowest of the bunch. Is it because he was out of position, and not able to fully utilize his potential? That's my guess. If it's technique, does he have it on the Edge? Right tackle will be interesting.

Heckel at C makes good sense. Having the most athletic at C(servais)makes no sense, unless he's still improving his technique. Although, giving him a season of reps, to help make sure you can trust him at RT? Ok.

If we're basing the edge on length, 6'6"+. We have Conway, Servais, Adams, O'Sullivan, Clark.

It's going to he VERY interesting to see the 2 deep battles.

 

[721Comstock]

If we're basing the edge on length, 6'6"+. We have Conway, Servais, Adams, O'Sullivan, Clark.

It's going to he VERY interesting to see the 2 deep battles.

Can any of these guys play hoops? Maybe a few minutes a game as a backup walk-on Center?
Asking for a friend.

 

[cuse309]

I'm not good at all at evaluating individuals on the o-line, but I will say this. I'm not too worried about O-Line moving forward. As a group, they did make strides throughout the season, and with a unit that young, and inexperienced, that's all I wanted to see throughout the year. They will only get better as they gain game experience, familiarity with each other, and improve in strength and conditioning. Throw in the added competition from the incoming freshman, and RS freshman, and there is reason to believe this unit can be a capable to good ACC line.

 

[RandomGuy]

I think it's important to note, that Dakota Davis was a traveling red shirt, for 9 games. The same path Servais and Heckel followed their RS year. I don't think they would have taken him, if they didn't expect him to battle for a position.

 

[RF2044]

I'm not good at all at evaluating individuals on the o-line, but I will say this. I'm not too worried about O-Line moving forward. As a group, they did make strides throughout the season, and with a unit that young, and inexperienced, that's all I wanted to see throughout the year. They will only get better as they gain game experience, familiarity with each other, and improve in strength and conditioning. Throw in the added competition from the incoming freshman, and RS freshman, and there is reason to believe this unit can be a capable to good ACC line.

I agree with all that, but with one caveat. The OL is clearly trending in the right direction, and getting qualitatively better. But I still believe [my opinion only] that we aren't where we need to be at OT in terms of depth / quality. Much better on the interior at this stage.

 

[RandomGuy]

I agree with all that, but with one caveat. The OL is clearly trending in the right direction, and getting qualitatively better. But I still believe [my opinion only] that we aren't where we need to be at OT in terms of depth / quality. Much better on the interior at this stage.

Maybe. It's an unknown.

Iirc, Conway graded near the the top, for ACC LT's a few weeks. He'll be one year better. If Servais winds up at RT, on paper, his ceiling should be higher than Mcgloster's.
Backups? Beats me. In those 10min fall camp clips, I saw osullivan/Davis getting blown up, a couple times. I think the spring game will be very telling, where we stand at tackle. Really need to see something from the unproven T's...

When Conway leaves... I certainly hope those guys are ready.

 

[RandomGuy]

Patrick Davis worked as the #2 RT last spring game, has also been working guard.

 

[RF2044]

Maybe. It's an unknown.

Iirc, Conway graded near the the top, for ACC LT's a few weeks. He'll be one year better. If Servais winds up at RT, on paper, his ceiling should be higher than Mcgloster's.
Backups? Beats me. In those 10min fall camp clips, I saw osullivan/Davis getting blown up, a couple times. I think the spring game will be very telling, where we stand at tackle. Really need to see something from the unproven T's...

When Conway leaves... I certainly hope those guys are ready.

I'm confident that between White, Froumey, and likely Horan -- that the raw materials are coming into the program to improve what we will have to work with at OT. Need to find a bridge between now and when those guys will be ready in 2 years.

 

[PAcuse]

If White see's the field next year we are in trouble. We have enough good depth to keep him RS.
I would like to see:
Conway
Roberts
Servais
Adams
Davis, Patrick

I know Davis doesn't have in game experience but at 6-5 ~320lbs and 22 when the season starts I think he could be a gem at RT. Otherwise I could see Servais move to RT and Heckel take C.

 

[SoBristol]

Who is #2?
Conway 1. If Adams to RT then Heckel the other G? Makes sense.

Yes. Run game please.

Babers answered a question about who was the backup to McGloster -- and the answer was Evan Adams was the next best OT. This answer was in mid-season. The answer might differ with an off-season to prepare (for example, switching Servais from C as some suggested above). Keeping Servais at C, reinserting Roberts at G, with Adams sliding one spot to OT, makes the most sense to me (more stability), but we will see soon enough.

 

[SU94]

I'm confident that between White, Froumey, and likely Horan -- that the raw materials are coming into the program to improve what we will have to work with at OT. Need to find a bridge between now and when those guys will be ready in 2 years.

I am buoyant on what we have happening on the OLine. More work to be done, but THIS really is the key to our offensive success. As we know, offense is now this program's calling card. But to thrive and score 40+, we need to run the ball too.

I am highly intrigued by both Patrick Davis and Carlos Vettorello. Davis is a bit older, as stated above, and Canadian (those guys are pr!ckly). And Vettorello seems to have a mean streak/road grater attitude. I'm very excited for these guys to plug themselves into the equation in the not-too-distant future.

 

[RF2044]

I think every incoming, redshirts.

I think Servais is the most athletic, but he also raises questions. Pro fb focus routinely graded him the lowest of the bunch. Is it because he was out of position, and not able to fully utilize his potential? That's my guess. If it's technique, does he have it on the Edge? Right tackle will be interesting.

Heckel at C makes good sense. Having the most athletic at C(servais)makes no sense, unless he's still improving his technique. Although, giving him a season of reps, to help make sure you can trust him at RT? Ok.

If we're basing the edge on length, 6'6"+. We have Conway, Servais, Adams, O'Sullivan, Clark.

It's going to he VERY interesting to see the 2 deep battles.

My opinion only, but I felt like we had three quality components on the OL last year, with Heckel / McGloster being the weak links [and they performed okay, not cutting them down]. My hope was that with a highly touted kid like Sampson coming in, that he'd push someone like Heckel into a reserve role, and move Servais to a different position where he could bolster that spot, and that playing in spring ball would help position him to be a starter next fall. So much for that.

 

[RMH44]

Patrick Davis worked as the #2 RT last spring game, has also been working guard.

Yep, I think he is confusing Davis with Mike Clark. He got blown-up on a few plays during spring scrimmages.

 

[shu 49]

If White see's the field next year we are in trouble. We have enough good depth to keep him RS.
I would like to see:
Conway
Roberts
Servais
Adams
Davis, Patrick

I know Davis doesn't have in game experience but at 6-5 ~320lbs and 22 when the season starts I think he could be a gem at RT. Otherwise I could see Servais move to RT and Heckel take C.

I don't see Davis at tackle only cause of his feet don't seem super quick. It matters less at guard than tackle cause of the speed rush ends acc has. He seems more of a road grader type anyways.

 

[PAcuse]

I don't see Davis at tackle only cause of his feet don't seem super quick. It matters less at guard than tackle cause of the speed rush ends acc has. He seems more of a road grader type anyways.

You might be right, he working at both RT and G.

 

[RandomGuy]

To the OP's point, of no longer being in a cycle where we have to rush guys out to fill holes. I agree we are, now, but one could argue that Servais and Heckel were premature. And to Heckels credit, he did grade higher than Servais.

I checked the 2 deep for Louisville.
LT OSullivan
LG Patrick Davis
C Keaton Darney
RG Colin Byrne
RT Mike Clark

3 frosh. Also, remember Dakota Davis was a traveling RS. Looks like the FR are showing promise. Devito's R-soph year, is setting up nicely. Should be some great competition.

 

[RandomGuy]

Yep, I think he is confusing Davis with Mike Clark. He got blown-up on a few plays during spring scrimmages.

I'll have to rewatch the spring game.. Patrick Davis was 2cnd team RT.

From spring game day article

• Patrick Davis worked as the second-team right tackle. He's been cross-training at guard and tackle this offseason.

Rewatched spring - focus on 2cnd team Tackles.

Clark at LT. Looked too thin. He was easily overpowered with force. Dunno if he can handle the bull rush. Faired better with routine pressure. Needed work on run block. However, the feet were quick. The extra year of S +C /coaching needed. Can't teach length, and quick only to a certain degree. There is potential for him to play the edge. I suspect he made progress here, as he was listed as LT #2.

Patrick Davis RT: Slower than Clark. Size/strength and he held his own(to a point) against pressure. Seemed to hit his Run Block assignment quicker and with more force. Both missed/came off blocks, although Davis seemed to hit more. He looked more ready(IMO), but only for the RT or Guard. Touch slower. He's a full grown 22 year old man.

I do think Davis can play RT. When Clark gets the strength? He could be a LT candidate, but I see no reason to put him there, If Servais can play up to his paper#'s. I'd slide a stronger Clark to RT, and move P.Davis in.

Of course, the Servais to LT, question, is after next year.. Clark/O'Sullivan could be ready. For RS, Veterello is a dog, and will compete inside. Froumy will have paper #'s, but will need pass pro(run first scheme) Qadir has the measurables, but he needs reshaping. I watched all of his teams highlights to see his "not highlights" He has potential. He reminded me a little bit of McGloster, with a higher ceiling. His pass pro was good, but needed run block work. No public speed #'s. I think his first appearance is at RT.

 

[shu 49]

I'll have to rewatch the spring game.. Patrick Davis was 2cnd team RT.

From spring game day article

• Patrick Davis worked as the second-team right tackle. He's been cross-training at guard and tackle this offseason.

Rewatched spring - focus on 2cnd team Tackles.

Clark at LT. Looked too thin. He was easily overpowered with force. Dunno if he can handle the bull rush. Faired better with routine pressure. Needed work on run block. However, the feet were quick. The extra year of S +C /coaching needed. Can't teach length, and quick only to a certain degree. There is potential for him to play the edge. I suspect he made progress here, as he was listed as LT #2.

Patrick Davis RT: Slower than Clark. Size/strength and he held his own(to a point) against pressure. Seemed to hit his Run Block assignment quicker and with more force. Both missed/came off blocks, although Davis seemed to hit more. He looked more ready(IMO), but only for the RT or Guard. Touch slower. He's a full grown 22 year old man.

I do think Davis can play RT. When Clark gets the strength? He could be a LT candidate, but I see no reason to put him there, If Servais can play up to his paper#'s. I'd slide a stronger Clark to RT, and move P.Davis in.

Of course, the Servais to LT, question, is after next year.. Clark/O'Sullivan could be ready. For RS, Veterello is a dog, and will compete inside. Froumy will have paper #'s, but will need pass pro(run first scheme) Qadir has the measurables, but he needs reshaping. I watched all of his teams highlights to see his "not highlights" He has potential. He reminded me a little bit of McGloster, with a higher ceiling. His pass pro was good, but needed run block work. No public speed #'s. I think his first appearance is at RT.

I suspected as much. Great insight. How was Clarks knee bend on pass pro. Seams to stand tall on power moves instead of sitting down to maintain strength and balance. I hope Davis pushes Adams and Roberts at guard. Competition does wonders for improvement and I think Vaterllo starts as a RS freshman because of his mentality and grit. I loved his film. He could be a gem. Get him to 300 lbs or so (15 lbs in one year is good) and we may have something.

 

[RandomGuy]

I suspected as much. Great insight. How was Clarks knee bend on pass pro. Seams to stand tall on power moves instead of sitting down to maintain strength and balance. I hope Davis pushes Adams and Roberts at guard. Competition does wonders for improvement and I think Vaterllo starts as a RS freshman because of his mentality and grit. I loved his film. He could be a gem. Get him to 300 lbs or so (15 lbs in one year is good) and we may have something.

That,too. Something the taller guys always have to focus on, more. Its easier to look at bend when they have a hand in the dirt, for me. I assume he's worked on all of it, as he was penned in at #2. Really wish we could have seen more fall camp, as this info is a football season old.

My thought, is there is enough competition inside, that Vettorello can afford the RS(like all fresh), and the team will be better for it, in the long run.

The good thing, is I think there is some legit competition. Tackle needs a little more competition, but I think this fall there will be 7? At 6'6"+. Seems like it's being addressed.