NIKE is now a target | Page 8 | Syracusefan.com

NIKE is now a target

4 Freshmen don't fit the profile valued by Nike. Rest of the team, Battle maybe, remember not a McD...Recent past we haven't been loaded with Nike wonders. JB maybe sensed something was up a few years ago...like the crap was going to hit the fan. JB is way smarter than the average head coach. Any kid in the top 100 looking for $$$$$$ isn't worth pursuing. A veritable trap.
JB isn't "way smarter" than anyone. But he did/does have factors in his/our favor when it comes to preventing this type of involvement. He had permanent job security. He already had a national championship. And had the carrier dome as a recruiting tool. And he was much closer to retirement than not. That combination is al,out the equivalent to "FU Money" when it comes to dealing with external nonsense, with this nonsense being an amateur minor demanding payments.
 
Treated as unpaid labor? What a crock. No one is forcing them to work for this unpaid labor...don't except the scholarship and all that that entails. Take your talents elsewhere and go make it on their own if they're being so terribly wronged. How many of these guys are clearly worth more than the cost of their scholarships? They're given a stage/platform to showcase their talents for the world to see and at no operational costs, etc.. If they are good enough, that gifted platform will afford them to reap the benefits in the near future. Go win your auditions on this grand stage/platform so that you can be the champion of your own personal 'America's Got Talent.' In the process, get yourself an education that will be a gracious benefit of a lifetime.
It amazes me that people don't appreciate the value of education ... in a college sports forum. Proponents of the "no cash, no value" argument ought to try looking out 5 or 10 years, instead of 2. They're forgetting that we're in a knowledge economy. Lots of candidates are out there competing for employment, and the ones with degrees are at the front of the line. College, now, is what HS used to be 30 years ago. It's a threshold requirement for most good-paying jobs outside of the trades. And the skilled trades have their own apprenticeships and experience requirements. You can't even teach 1st grade in NY without a masters.

Without an educational component, what happens to a kid on the d-league plan who leaves school and then blows out a knee or isn't good enough to make a pro rotation (this is the vast majority even at the D-1 level)? What's next for him, sealing driveways or Taco Bell? That's a pretty short-sighted career plan -- one with long odds and no back up. Therefore, for all but a couple hundred kids every year -- a college degree is worth its weight in gold given any realistic consideration for the future. It's beyond short-sighted to pretend that SA's are getting ripped off because they spend a few years - while still playing sports - preparing for the next 40.

Another (corollary) fallacy is that SA's are "forced labor". This is a derivative of the "if no cash, no value" argument, and just as inaccurate. No one is forcing kids to get a degree. Although they can't enter the (NBA) draft out of HS (they have to be 1 year removed or 19), they can go overseas and get paid, then return to the NBA the next year. If, on the other hand, they choose to enroll in college - then they (wisely, IMO) accept the bargain. They get free room and board, a stipend for expenses, the benefit of a degree (or college credits), and along the way they get to play in front of big crowds, take advantage of amazing coaching, develop their game and showcase their skills on national TV. Their only "sacrifice" is to remain amateurs and complete their classwork. And that's as it should be. They may not "like" classes at that age, but they clearly benefit, and it goes without saying that Universities (at least legitimate ones) are not set up to function as d-leagues. Unlike UK and the shady AAU system, they provide an opportunity to build a future after sports. Ahletes are supposed to attend classes to maintain their scholarships, but they're not actually forced to do anything. College is a choice, not an armed camp with barbed wire. Kids are free to drop out anytime, but at their own peril. It's a cold hard world out there with no education.

So what about the money? Yes, the NCAA makes money, and I would be the first to admit that I don't like the way it operates. I'd make major changes in the clearing-house, the enforcement division and in leadership. But the fact that they make almost a billion dollars doesn't mean they're stealing. As a NFP membership association, they're required to put the money back into programs, enforcement and other expenses. Colleges make money too ... but again they're NFP educational institutions. Their revenues, by law, must be offset by costs for faculty, facilities, scholarships and other legitimate expenses -- which should never include bundles of cash for amateur athletes.
 
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So will you go in to your bosses office tomorrow and ask to be paid in the widgets your company produces. Probably not.

Scholarships aren't money because the value is fungible. Coaches aren't getting paid in scholarships and free classes. Administrators aren't' getting paid in scholarships and free classes. NCAA administrators aren't getting paid in scholarships and free classes. The only ones that are are the athletes whose labor is the central pillar of the NCAA sports money machine.

This isn't 1972 when the head coach was making $15k and TV money was nearly non-existant. This is now a nearly ten Billion dollar industry built on labor paid in company scrip.
A scholarship doesn't have to be "money" to have Value. No one pays coaches or administrators in scholarships because they already have degrees. But, yes, professionals ARE offered money for continuing education as part of benefits package. College is, for everyone else, the platform upon which you develop and display professional skills. Not sure why it should be any different for kids who can shoot a basketball and play the same game they always start playing for free because they love it. No one starts 'accounting' at age five because of a love of tax code. And college is where a player's brand is built, so that he has a reason to demand millions when he becomes a professional.

Tickets to high school and junior high and cyo games generate revenue, too. Should kids be paid from 10 years old? Get a share? The principal is the same, whether the NCAA is profitable or not.
 
I distinctly remember a conversation I had with one SU player's father in New Orleans in 2003 the day before the National Championship game. He basically went on and on and on about how everyone was making money but the only thing that he and his son were getting was free school, which he emphasized with a Coleman-esque "Whoop-de-da$$-doo!".

I went to undergrad and then SU to get a graduate degree that I've used to base my entire professional career and adult life on. I would have killed to have had my entire educational bill paid in full (I'm still paying off student loans accumulated in college and grad school).

I guess this made me realize that the value of an education was as much about what YOU YOURSELF put into it, as it is about the name of the school on the diploma. To me that degree from SU has defined nearly my entire adult life, for that player, it was viewed as worthless (and never completed).
 
4 Freshmen don't fit the profile valued by Nike. Rest of the team, Battle maybe, remember not a McD...Recent past we haven't been loaded with Nike wonders. JB maybe sensed something was up a few years ago...like the crap was going to hit the fan. JB is way smarter than the average head coach. Any kid in the top 100 looking for $$$$$$ isn't worth pursuing. A veritable trap.


I don't think he "sensed" it. He has been confronted with it.
Marbury's mom wanted a payoff in her kitchen, as I recall the story. Either his mom or Kenny Anderson's; whichever one who said that quote "It's cold up in Syracuse, but not as cold at that man." or something like that.

After Rob Johnson, I think we got out of the business of payoffs to street agents and the like.
 
That was honestly my biggest concern, Hop. Great recruiter who seemed to be the boots on the floor guy under JB who doesn't seem to appear as hands on. Very easy for an assistant to go rouge.


I would be more concerned with Troy Weaver and the recruitment of Melo, to be honest.
 
First place the FBI should look at is Kentucky and Coach Cal for this dude has been very dirty based on his past teams. Also, how can Cal suggest their UK players talk about social issues when they go to college for one seminar as rental students? I rather have a middle aged women working in the UK dining hall tell me about social issues instead of these pampered athletes.

Do you think the FBI gives a crap about what the NCAA has uncovered in the past? This isn't about violations, it's about criminal activity.
 
It's just amazing to me that people don't appreciate the value of a college education ... especially in a college sports forum. Proponents of the "if it's not cash, it's worthless" argument ought to try looking out 5 or 10 years, instead of 2. They're forgetting that we're in a knowledge economy. There are lot of candidates out there competing for employment, and the ones with degrees are at the front of the line. College, now, is what HS used to be 30 years ago. It's a prerequisite for most good-paying jobs outside of the trades. And the skilled trades have their own apprenticeships and experience requirements. You can't even teach 1st grade in NY without a masters.

So without the educational component, what happens if a kid blows out a knee, gets cut or simply isn't good enough for pro ball (this is the vast majority even at the D-1 level)? Does he seal driveways or work at Taco Bell? That's a pretty short-sighted career plan -- one with long odds and no back up. Therefore, for all but a couple hundred kids every year -- a college degree is worth its weight in gold on any sensible time horizon. It's beyond short-sighted to pretend that SA's are getting ripped off because they spend a few years preparing for the next 40.

Another (corollary) fallacy is that SA's are "forced labor". This is a derivative of the "if it's not cash, it's worthless" argument, and just as inaccurate. No one is forcing kids to get a degree. Although they can't enter the (NBA) draft out of HS (they have to be 1 year removed or 19), they can go overseas and get paid, then return to the NBA the next year. On the other hand, if they choose to enroll in college - then they (wisely, IMO) accept the bargain. They get the benefit of a degree, and along the way they get to play in front of big crowds, take advantage of amazing coaching, develop their game and showcase their skills on national TV. Obviously, in the college setting they have to remain amateurs and complete their classwork. And that's as it should be. Universities (at least legitimate ones) are not d-leagues. They're not the shady AAU. They have teachers and classes and kids are there to learn. Colleges are not armed camps with barbed wire.

So what about the money? Yes, the NCAA makes money, and I would be the first to admit that I don't like the way it operates. I'd make major changes in the "clearing-house", the enforcement division and in leadership. But the fact that they make almost a billion dollars doesn't mean they're stealing. As a NFP membership association, they put the money back into programs, enforcement and other expenses. Colleges make money too ... but again they're NFP educational institutions. Their budgets are balanced by costs for faculty, facilities, scholarships and all the other things that Universities pay for. Like the NCAA, the expenditures are largely transparent and put to good use, even though athletes are not being handed bundles of cash.

I agree with your points and just wanted to add another about the "forced labor" comment. Seinfeld had a great bit about sports fans rooting for laundry. I root for a school, not a specific player. As a SU player, I rooted for and was a fan of Tyler Lydon. Now? Not so much. In fact, I had to look up to see what team he is on (Denver). While I still have an affinity for former SU players and hope they do well in the NBA, overseas, and/or life, I am not going to watch their games or buy their jersey. The value is not with the player, it is with the school/team/brand that is Syracuse University. Even if the team is not good (SU football), I still torture myself and watch. Therefore, the argument that a certain student athlete makes a school a certain amount of money is misplaced as the school would make a significant amount of money regardless of who is wearing number 20 on the basketball court. I will acknowledge that there is an increase in sales and revenue if the team is good, but I would guess that amount is relatively small when compared with the general distributions SU receives from the ACC.

The second issue is what is the market value of an 18 year old basketball player. Right now, the market is a college scholarship or playing overseas. Fans do not care about and there is no market for a second U.S. based professional basketball league. As the NBA invests more money into the D-League, this may change, but as of right now, a player is only worth the compensation that someone is willing to pay. Arguing that someone is worth more than a scholarship is fine, but only if a market exists that pays such compensation. If these players really were worth what people argue, multiple professional leagues would be set up. I will admit there is a valid argument that no market exists because of college basketball and there may be some truth to this. Of course, this goes back to my original argument that the value is largely because of the uniform being worn and not the player wearing it.
 
Money Laundering is a 5 year statute. Ain't looking at anything prior to 2012.

Not paying taxes is 3 years.
 
Arguing that someone is worth more than a scholarship is fine, but only if a market exists that pays such compensation
Apparently such a market exists, or have you not been paying attention to the the news of the last 7 days? Bowen wasn't the only cat who got a $150k promise to play ball. Because the market is under the table, the athletes are at a disadvantage - they effectively have no rights. People wonder why NCAA players don't go to the G-League or overseas? The money is probably just as good or better in the NCAA, but they lack labor rights. It's a system designed to take advantage of people with a short career and fantastical goals. And it does a helluva stroke of business.

Multiple leagues can't be set up due to existing monopolies. I can't just start a new league tomorrow or start a team and tell the NBA that I've scheduled the Warriors to play my team on October 30th.
 
Apparently such a market exists, or have you not been paying attention to the the news of the last 7 days? Bowen wasn't the only cat who got a $150k promise to play ball. Because the market is under the table, the athletes are at a disadvantage - they effectively have no rights. People wonder why NCAA players don't go to the G-League or overseas? The money is probably just as good or better in the NCAA, but they lack labor rights. It's a system designed to take advantage of people with a short career and fantastical goals. And it does a helluva stroke of business.

Multiple leagues can't be set up due to existing monopolies. I can't just start a new league tomorrow or start a team and tell the NBA that I've scheduled the Warriors to play my team on October 30th.

Good point, but it could be argued that the $100,000 payment and market it created was less about paying him to play at Louisville and more about him representing Adidas both in college and once he made it to the NBA. In this situation, as opposed to a bagman/booster matter, Adidas was mainly trying to purchase a benefit for itself as opposed to Louisville.

Also, the college pay-for-play market is a little like the firearms market. There is both a legal and illegal market for firearms. That being said, if asked whether there was market for an automatic rifle, I would say no as it is illegal to sell automatic rifles. For the right price and assuming I was willing to take certain amount of risk, I could still buy one. I am just not sure whether a black market can be used to determine the value of player's services. However, I should have indicated there are only two markets for an 18 year old basketball player within the rules (breaking the NCAA rules is not by itself illegal so "legal markets" is not the right term).

As for not being able to start multiple leagues, it has nothing to do with monopolies. If a market would support it, there is nothing stopping a person from starting a professional basketball league, independent of the NCAA or NBA. For example, in addition to the NFL, the sport of football has at least two other professional leagues - CFL and Arena Football League. At this point, though, it does not appear people want to pay to see what could be good basketball unless the player is wearing the right brand's uniform.
 
I distinctly remember a conversation I had with one SU player's father in New Orleans in 2003 the day before the National Championship game. He basically went on and on and on about how everyone was making money but the only thing that he and his son were getting was free school, which he emphasized with a Coleman-esque "Whoop-de-da$$-doo!".

I went to undergrad and then SU to get a graduate degree that I've used to base my entire professional career and adult life on. I would have killed to have had my entire educational bill paid in full (I'm still paying off student loans accumulated in college and grad school).

I guess this made me realize that the value of an education was as much about what YOU YOURSELF put into it, as it is about the name of the school on the diploma. To me that degree from SU has defined nearly my entire adult life, for that player, it was viewed as worthless (and never completed).
Yessir. And not only that. Not just the diploma.

What would you pay to dunk on a Dookie in front of 35,000 screaming fans, in front of a national ESPN television audience, then walk around campus as royalty and be able to snag fly females far beyond your actual 'level?' What value could be assigned to that?
 
I distinctly remember a conversation I had with one SU player's father in New Orleans in 2003 the day before the National Championship game. He basically went on and on and on about how everyone was making money but the only thing that he and his son were getting was free school, which he emphasized with a Coleman-esque "Whoop-de-da$$-doo!".

I went to undergrad and then SU to get a graduate degree that I've used to base my entire professional career and adult life on. I would have killed to have had my entire educational bill paid in full (I'm still paying off student loans accumulated in college and grad school).

I guess this made me realize that the value of an education was as much about what YOU YOURSELF put into it, as it is about the name of the school on the diploma. To me that degree from SU has defined nearly my entire adult life, for that player, it was viewed as worthless (and never completed).

Don’t Believe The Hype, Play The Game?
 
It's just amazing to me that people don't appreciate the value of education ... especially in a college sports forum. Proponents of the "if it's not cash, it's worthless" argument ought to try looking out 5 or 10 years, instead of 2. They're forgetting that we're in a knowledge economy. There are lot of candidates out there competing for employment, and the ones with degrees are at the front of the line. College, now, is what HS used to be 30 years ago. It's a prerequisite for most good-paying jobs outside of the trades. And the skilled trades have their own apprenticeships and experience requirements. You can't even teach 1st grade in NY without a masters.
This was a good post. My comment pertains to this paragraph about education. Today, a Bachelor's degree isn't what it used to be. Certainly better than no degree/ But now, you really need a Masters (and some pertinent experience or internship) to become marketable enough to compete in certain fields of employment, and there are highly educated kids out looking for an opportunity or break to find employment in their field. Most student athletes value the education and get their degrees, especially in the non-big money sports. I agree that kids who don't get one could fall way back in the pack when and if a professional sports career doesn't work out.
 
the question is what kind of education are the kids in the money sports getting? UNC is not the only school that is putting their success on the court and field above the credibility of their degree. It is easy to say we aren't valuing the free education but some institutions aren't either and that is a major problem that could alleviate a lot of this mess.
 
I distinctly remember a conversation I had with one SU player's father in New Orleans in 2003 the day before the National Championship game. He basically went on and on and on about how everyone was making money but the only thing that he and his son were getting was free school, which he emphasized with a Coleman-esque "Whoop-de-da$$-doo!".
i bet i can name that tune
 
It amazes me that people don't appreciate the value of education ... in a college sports forum. Proponents of the "no cash, no value" argument ought to try looking out 5 or 10 years, instead of 2. They're forgetting that we're in a knowledge economy. Lots of candidates are out there competing for employment, and the ones with degrees are at the front of the line. College, now, is what HS used to be 30 years ago. It's a threshold requirement for most good-paying jobs outside of the trades. And the skilled trades have their own apprenticeships and experience requirements. You can't even teach 1st grade in NY without a masters.

Without an educational component, what happens to a kid on the d-league plan who leaves school and then blows out a knee or isn't good enough to make a pro rotation (this is the vast majority even at the D-1 level)? What's next for him, sealing driveways or Taco Bell? That's a pretty short-sighted career plan -- one with long odds and no back up. Therefore, for all but a couple hundred kids every year -- a college degree is worth its weight in gold given any realistic consideration for the future. It's beyond short-sighted to pretend that SA's are getting ripped off because they spend a few years - while still playing sports - preparing for the next 40.

Another (corollary) fallacy is that SA's are "forced labor". This is a derivative of the "if no cash, no value" argument, and just as inaccurate. No one is forcing kids to get a degree. Although they can't enter the (NBA) draft out of HS (they have to be 1 year removed or 19), they can go overseas and get paid, then return to the NBA the next year. If, on the other hand, they choose to enroll in college - then they (wisely, IMO) accept the bargain. They get free room and board, a stipend for expenses, the benefit of a degree (or college credits), and along the way they get to play in front of big crowds, take advantage of amazing coaching, develop their game and showcase their skills on national TV. Their only "sacrifice" is to remain amateurs and complete their classwork. And that's as it should be. They may not "like" classes at that age, but they clearly benefit, and it goes without saying that Universities (at least legitimate ones) are not set up to function as d-leagues. Unlike UK and the shady AAU system, they provide an opportunity to build a future after sports. Ahletes are supposed to attend classes to maintain their scholarships, but they're not actually forced to do anything. College is a choice, not an armed camp with barbed wire. Kids are free to drop out anytime, but at their own peril. It's a cold hard world out there with no education.

So what about the money? Yes, the NCAA makes money, and I would be the first to admit that I don't like the way it operates. I'd make major changes in the clearing-house, the enforcement division and in leadership. But the fact that they make almost a billion dollars doesn't mean they're stealing. As a NFP membership association, they're required to put the money back into programs, enforcement and other expenses. Colleges make money too ... but again they're NFP educational institutions. Their revenues, by law, must be offset by costs for faculty, facilities, scholarships and other legitimate expenses -- which should never include bundles of cash for amateur athletes.
BTW, it is my opinion that you don't really care if these kids get a degree, just so long as they get their 4 years of playing time in, and stay eligible. That said, I have never understood that people who appear to be of reasonable intelligence cannot fathom that one does not have to go to college between the ages of 18-23.
So what if a kid leaves school, then gets hurt. He can always go back to school, if he values education. If not, then that's okay too.

If any of my kids had a talent, passion, or skill on which they could start prior to college, I would wholly encourage them to pursue it.
If you need some specific knowledge to further your dream, then go get it.

For many college students now, it's just 4 years of parties and living off mom and dad.

I've had 2 kids that left college. One joined the Navy, and loves it. The other decided to start over, after working a year in retail for 2 years, to pursue something about which she is passionate. She is now kicking butt in the classroom, working and helping pay her own way. Wife and I could not be more proud of either of them.

By the way, you don't NEED a Master's to teach kindergarten, you are required to have one by the unholy restrictive cabal of government and teacher unions.
 
Good point, but it could be argued that the $100,000 payment and market it created was less about paying him to play at Louisville and more about him representing Adidas both in college and once he made it to the NBA. In this situation, as opposed to a bagman/booster matter, Adidas was mainly trying to purchase a benefit for itself as opposed to Louisville.

Also, the college pay-for-play market is a little like the firearms market. There is both a legal and illegal market for firearms. That being said, if asked whether there was market for an automatic rifle, I would say no as it is illegal to sell automatic rifles. For the right price and assuming I was willing to take certain amount of risk, I could still buy one. I am just not sure whether a black market can be used to determine the value of player's services. However, I should have indicated there are only two markets for an 18 year old basketball player within the rules (breaking the NCAA rules is not by itself illegal so "legal markets" is not the right term).

As for not being able to start multiple leagues, it has nothing to do with monopolies. If a market would support it, there is nothing stopping a person from starting a professional basketball league, independent of the NCAA or NBA. For example, in addition to the NFL, the sport of football has at least two other professional leagues - CFL and Arena Football League. At this point, though, it does not appear people want to pay to see what could be good basketball unless the player is wearing the right brand's uniform.
Ice Cube professional 3v3 league. I know I know, just started and Ok sure it had terrible ratings, but still a professional league.
 

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