NLRB Dartmouth ruling

[donniesyracuse]

Free? - Not counting of course the $250k free education in liue of pay. Im so sick of this bullcrap

Well they don’t get paid in actual currency. Can we pay the head coach in education and room and board? Even if you object to the word “free,” can you name another billion dollar industry where labor gets such a minuscule slice of the revenue pie?

 

[upperdeck]

Well they don’t get paid in actual currency. Can we pay the head coach in education and room and board? Even if you object to the word “free,” can you name another billion dollar industry where labor gets such a minuscule slice of the revenue pie?

you mean like all the tech people that generate all the money the tech world makes?

Does the avg person with no experience start out getting 100K in benefits in a job where he may never actually make a single play in his whole career?

And that assumes nothing comes of his actual degree that could generate millions over the lifetime.

 

[HtownOrange]

Most definitely.

And wait until they realize their education will be a likely taxed benefit. The IRS rarely misses an opportunity to exercise their duty to find revenue.

And then the issue of public funding may be abolished as education cats the same for public and private schools. The difference lies in who funds the tuition, the family or the public in general. I would love to see the big state schools athletes charged a tax bill for the benefit equal to the private schools.

 

[donniesyracuse]

you mean like all the tech people that generate all the money the tech world makes?

Does the avg person with no experience start out getting 100K in benefits in a job where he may never actually make a single play in his whole career?

And that assumes nothing comes of his actual degree that could generate millions over the lifetime.

Do tech people get paid in education or actual money?

 

[upperdeck]

Do tech people get paid in education or actual money?

so they have 2 options..

get paid 50k and then pay for room/board/school and pay taxes
or get 100K in free stuff with no taxes?

What does money matter?

Do 95% of the kids in college get paid and they have actual bills that take 10-20 yrs to pay back.

Level the field then.. no scholies and every kid gets 50-100k of real money. Have at it..

Go back in time.. There were no scholies at all for many many years in sports.

IF a college kid playing a sport is an employee is a HS kid playing a sport then too? HS bring in money as well.

Do the band kids make money now they are proving a product? Do the music majors who perform on campus now get paid?

Are we forcing kids to play sports now?

Lots of things get done for things other than money? What do people get paid who work golf tournaments in lieu of money? Tickets and merch.. Should they ask for money instead?

 

[donniesyracuse]

so they have 2 options..

get paid 50k and then pay for room/board/school and pay taxes
or get 100K in free stuff with no taxes?

What does money matter?

Do 95% of the kids in college get paid and they have actual bills that take 10-20 yrs to pay back.

Level the field then.. no scholies and every kid gets 50-100k of real money. Have at it..

Go back in time.. There were no scholies at all for many many years in sports.

IF a college kid playing a sport is an employee is a HS kid playing a sport then too? HS bring in money as well.

Do the band kids make money now they are proving a product? Do the music majors who perform on campus now get paid?

Are we forcing kids to play sports now?

Lots of things get done for things other than money? What do people get paid who work golf tournaments in lieu of money? Tickets and merch.. Should they ask for money instead?

I am at-peace with letting the market dictate what people get compensated.

 

[Qbobby]

They will certainly have to budget differently. Some will probably decide it is not sustainable. I am sure some plantations shut down after they could no longer count on free labor too.

That's overdramatic and a REALLY poor comparison.

 

[Qbobby]

I mean, dislike it all you want, but college D1 athletes are about as far from slavery as you can get. Period end of subject.

 

[donniesyracuse]

That's overdramatic and a REALLY poor comparison.

They are comparable in the way I suggested. A brain capable of recognizing nuance knows I wasn’t implying they are the same thing.

 

[djcon57]

Do 95% of the kids in college get paid and they have actual bills that take 10-20 yrs to pay back.

It's amazing that 11 years later you still don't get it.

95% of the kids in college don't have a talent people pay to see. That's it. We're all sorry you had to pay for college because you didn't have a talent that people paid to see, I didn't either. It's going to be ok.

 

[Doc5120]

Double that.

Two bedroom apartment, $1700 mo.
Five bedroom house, $1100 mo.

Real numbers. The apartment doesn’t including electricity or parking. The house has one covered parking space and doesn’t include electricity or internet.

That is absolutely absurd! 20 years ago, we paid $1,800 for a 2 story, 6 bedroom house in college, so $300/guy. Granted, it was Oswego, NY...but still. The numbers you're throwing out there are silly. And here I thought living off campus would be an affordable option for kids/parents. Slumlords must really be taking over.

 

[SUDadx2]

That is absolutely absurd! 20 years ago, we paid $1,800 for a 2 story, 6 bedroom house in college, so $300/guy. Granted, it was Oswego, NY...but still. The numbers you're throwing out there are silly. And here I thought living off campus would be an affordable option for kids/parents. Slumlords must really be taking over.

I agree. It is absurd. But I assure these are very real numbers. Having sent two kids to Syracuse University (one graduated last spring and the second one is still enrolled) my wife and I are well aware of the actually costs associated with attending this fine school.

I'm no economist (and I'll try not to get political), but everything seemed to change when the federal government started backing student loans. Colleges and Universities started to raise tuition and fees which in turn forced more students to get loans to pay for college. When loans were backed by the colleges or local banks the colleges and banks assumed the risk when making loans to risky applicants. That risk all but disappeared when the federal government got involved. The feds got involved cause they thought they could profit from these loans. The exact opposite has happened.

Schools raised tuition and fees, landlords raised rents and so on because much of the additional costs were being paid for by government backed loans. When these loans fail or the government attempts to buy votes by "forgiving" loans, the cost of any forgiveness is passed on to the taxpayers who are ultimately responsible for the national debt which is currently in excess of $34 Trillion or $264,000 per taxpayer and climbing every second. The US Federal Debt to GDP ratio is 122.72%, which simply means the United States owes more than it brings in in taxes. The government doesn't actually "make" money, they collect money via taxes, and not everyone pays taxes.

We live in a society that is driven by feelings and not facts. It feels good to say we are giving aid to other people or other countries, but we can't even pay our own bills - fact. It's a mess.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[HRE Otto IV]

And wait until they realize their education will be a likely taxed benefit. The IRS rarely misses an opportunity to exercise their duty to find revenue.

And then the issue of public funding may be abolished as education cats the same for public and private schools. The difference lies in who funds the tuition, the family or the public in general. I would love to see the big state schools athletes charged a tax bill for the benefit equal to the private schools.

Most sports it won’t be taxed. If a student works at the dining hall, their education is not taxed.

It is the pro sport model where the taxes will come into play. If the kid isn’t attending classes at all or even for a semester, the benefits will need to be taxed.

If the benefit can be tied to furthering their education it won’t be taxed.

 

[Cusefan69]

Full Stop.

While the wild speculation about haves and have-nots was semi-interesting (and quite imaginative), this ruling would only affect Vanderbilt and Northwestern as the only private schools in those conferences. The NLRB has no jurisdiction WRT state governments. The law specifically exempts state, tribal, and local governments from being required to participate in collective bargaining. So, with all the state schools not unionized things continue to progress gradually from where they are now. Private schools will have some decisions to make.

Gotcha, good to know.

 

[All4SU]

I wonder how much of a “win” this will be if it results in half of the current number of kids no longer earning college scholarships.

 

[upperdeck]

I wonder how much of a “win” this will be if it results in half of the current number of kids no longer earning college scholarships.

and consider that in many of these cases the reason the kids get into the school is because they can play ball.. They might not get in otherwise to an IVY type school.

 

[Hoo's That]

SO why do state colleges bargain with Unions then?

They can't be required to bargain like a private employer can be. They're perfectly welcome to bargain if they choose to do so; it's strictly at the government's option.

 

[elimunelson]

I wonder how much of a “win” this will be if it results in half of the current number of kids no longer earning college scholarships.

And title 9 ramifications. I see most sports becoming club. It’s a terrible scenario for non revenue sports.

 

[CU44SE]

I don’t think some players realize what this is going to do. Soon enough, small time colleges are going to shut down sports because they will start to lose money and they can’t compete. They are not going to support sports when they lose money. Then college sports will drop down to 100 teams or so. And many kids that would have played sports in college, will no longer get that opportunity. College sports will change dramatically within the next 10 years. I think it’s closer than that, but the legal system will drag it out.

Bottom line, small time college athletes are doing this, and it’s ultimately going to make the lower end programs close down entirely. This will ultimately prevent future players of their talent level from even being able to compete in college sports.

 

[shandeezy7]

I don’t think some players realize what this is going to do. Soon enough, small time colleges are going to shut down sports because they will start to lose money and they can’t compete. They are not going to support sports when they lose money. Then college sports will drop down to 100 teams or so. And many kids that would have played sports in college, will no longer get that opportunity. College sports will change dramatically within the next 10 years. I think it’s closer than that, but the legal system will drag it out.

Bottom line, small time college athletes are doing this, and it’s ultimately going to make the lower end programs close down entirely. This will ultimately prevent future players of their talent level from even being able to compete in college sports.

I'm not sure this will be the case. There are hundreds of D2 and D3 (and even a decent number of D1) athletic programs that definitely aren't profitable yet still continue to operate, since it's a valuable part of the student/alumni experience for them.

 

[UpstateSM]

This is very good and I agree with it now that I am looking at it that way.

 

[Hoo's That]

This is very good and I agree with it now that I am looking at it that way.

Baseball is an excellent model for them to follow, but good luck in getting the pro teams' owners to start viable minor leagues.

 

[HtownOrange]

Baseball is an excellent model for them to follow, but good luck in getting the pro teams' owners to start viable minor leagues.

You mean the pro team owners refuse to invest in lesser development leagues and lose money when they can have the universities develop players for free?

I mean, it's a good deal for the owners, why ruffle feathers?

Anyway, it is what should happen. But then the SEC would not be able to field teams as noone on most of their teams is collegiate material anyway.

 

[Hoo's That]

You mean the pro team owners refuse to invest in lesser development leagues and lose money when they can have the universities develop players for free?

I mean, it's a good deal for the owners, why ruffle feathers?

Anyway, it is what should happen. But then the SEC would not be able to field teams as noone on most of their teams is collegiate material anyway.

Hammer meet nailhead.

 

[upperdeck]

You mean the pro team owners refuse to invest in lesser development leagues and lose money when they can have the universities develop players for free?

I mean, it's a good deal for the owners, why ruffle feathers?

Anyway, it is what should happen. But then the SEC would not be able to field teams as noone on most of their teams is collegiate material anyway.

the kids in college have a much better deal than the kids in the minors..