NLRB Dartmouth ruling

[David332]

Obviously has other implications going forward.

 

[AngryOtto]

I could see the Ivy’s and some smaller schools eliminate most if not all their sports programs.
This ruling might actually get congress to finally step in and take action.
If they are employees would there be contracts? No more immediate transfer without breach of the employment contract.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I could see the Ivy’s and some smaller schools eliminate most if not all their sports programs.

That is likely a fantastic outcome for an educational institution.

 

[texascpa]

I could see the Ivy’s and some smaller schools eliminate most if not all their sports programs.
This ruling might actually get congress to finally step in and take action.
If they are employees would there be contracts? No more immediate transfer without breach of the employment contract.

And get ready for Non-compete agreements.

 

[upperdeck]

win for the little guy and could also kill all the little guys.

 

[Cusefan69]

This would change things. Create SEC and Big players unions and each league to share ~40% with the players. Suddenly Presidents, Chancellors and ADs are like "Wait wut"?

 

[baggerbob]

And get ready for Non-compete agreements.

Signed contracts and no more NIL, without a contract. Won't be able to transfer, money will be more out in the open.
No more tax deduction for fat cats.

 

[texascpa]

Signed contracts and no more NIL, without a contract. Won't be able to transfer, money will be more out in the open.
No more tax deduction for fat cats.

Well, it's common law in all states that verbal agreement is a contract, and they are enforceable. Not sure NIL is going to change any time soon.

 

[Scooch]

Just another brick in the wall. We seem to be accelerating towards a future of a "professional" college league -- likely a merger of the B1G and SEC (plus a few more schools).

 

[Scooch]

That is likely a fantastic outcome for an educational institution.

Meh. I think there's a lot of value in a university having an athletics program.

Now, what we see at the Power 4 level is obscene and a bastardization of the concept. But that doesn't mean it's fundamentally bad.

If all of this leads to the end game of there being a relatively small "pro" college league (say, 45-50 schools) with everyone else drawing down from the arms race... that's likely a fantastic outcome.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Meh. I think there's a lot of value in a university having an athletics program.

I agree. Universities should seek excellence across all disciplines, athletics included, and there is something to both a) athletic spectatorship being part of the college experience (albeit a uniquely American one) and b) the marketing/brand potential athletics success can provide that leads to applications and enrollments.

Like you said though, what we have now is just a comically stupid behemoth. If Ivys, small schools, and other institutions with education as a top priority bow out of the NCAA, I have no doubt a healthy, regional club sports system would emerge that would accomplish many of the same ends without the excessive spend, and without the marketing/brand promotion potential, which is fine since that's not what those institutions have athletics for.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Unions were the result of economic maltreatment of workers. This is a logical step. NFL & NBA unions could step in. Wait until the kids owe income taxes.
Likely sets stage for SCOTUS review, given prior opposite finding, if memory serves.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Meh. I think there's a lot of value in a university having an athletics program.

Now, what we see at the Power 4 level is obscene and a bastardization of the concept. But that doesn't mean it's fundamentally bad.

If all of this leads to the end game of there being a relatively small "pro" college league (say, 45-50 schools) with everyone else drawing down from the arms race... that's likely a fantastic outcome.

In theory I agree. But the schools outside the Top 45-50 will still have NIL and the transfer portal ruining things. Maybe the top media contract will only be around $15M. And the top attendance will only be around 50k. But there is still a lot of money out there.

Schools that have money but couldn't ever win a championship, can now buy an FBS championship because the Top 45-50 teams are now playing in the Pro division.

You will still have schools like Iowa State, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Louisville, West Virginia, Pitt, TCU, UCF, Baylor, UVA left behind (schools that had over 40k last year). Plus other quality ACC, MWC, and BBall brands not listed. I think you will have 1-2 big super conferences from that group.

Heck 10 of 12 teams that got that $30M B12 contract are still there. Yes, the two biggest brands (BYU and Kansas) are likely gone but is that dropping the TV contract from $30M to $7.5M (AAC like) or $5M (MWC like)? Especially when they can add in some of those leftover ACC schools like Duke?

Remember that there is more demand for content than ever and the consolidation of the Top 45-50 will limit supply. The leftover supply isn't great but it is scarce compared to the demand.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I agree. Universities should seek excellence across all disciplines, athletics included, and there is something to both a) athletic spectatorship being part of the college experience (albeit a uniquely American one) and b) the marketing/brand potential athletics success can provide that leads to applications and enrollments.

Like you said though, what we have now is just a comically stupid behemoth. If Ivys, small schools, and other institutions with education as a top priority bow out of the NCAA, I have no doubt a healthy, regional club sports system would emerge that would accomplish many of the same ends without the excessive spend, and without the marketing/brand promotion potential, which is fine since that's not what those institutions have athletics for.

The Ivys are close to being club sports already. They don't give scholarships and they don't make any real money. Yet that is where unionization is starting?

 

[donniesyracuse]

Wait until the kids owe income taxes.

What will happen?

 

[upperdeck]

This would change things. Create SEC and Big players unions and each league to share ~40% with the players. Suddenly Presidents, Chancellors and ADs are like "Wait wut"?

where does the money come from for the 40%.. the schools gonna eat 40 million to pay players?

 

[UpstateSM]

And get ready for Non-compete agreements.

Unless there has been a sharp turn in the last couple of months, non-competes are heading down the path of being non-enforceable at some point in the not too distant future.

 

[donniesyracuse]

where does the money come from for the 40%.. the schools gonna eat 40 million to pay players?

Revenue from television contracts?

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

And get ready for Non-compete agreements.

And worker's comp, disability insurance, collective bargaining agreements, grievances, and maybe educational benefits taxed as income ... careful what you wish for.

 

[upperdeck]

Revenue from television contracts?

so they get 100 million now for instance.. its all spent and gone for other things.. and it wont be all going to just fball anyway.. so now the players will get the same chunk of money the NFL guys get?. But wait that means likely salary caps?

if you pay 40 million to players where does the school balance the 40 million its using in its books?

If the SEC/B10 take over where does the TV money come from? You think people around 75% of the country will care anymore if they have no chance to win?

it basically becomes the USFL.

If you have salary caps then NIL becomes a non issue it will have to be negotiated in to level the field.

are we also paying the walkons and such that fill out a roster that is twice the size of the NFL teams?

 

[djcon57]

Remember all those posts when the SEC signed their 3 BILLION Dollar TV deal with responses of...
"Wait until the taxes comes in for that!! They should be careful what they wish for"

Me either.

 

[djcon57]

so they get 100 million now for instance.. its all spent and gone for other things.. and it wont be all going to just fball anyway.. so now the players will get the same chunk of money the NFL guys get?. But wait that means likely salary caps?

if you pay 40 million to players where does the school balance the 40 million its using in its books?

If the SEC/B10 take over where does the TV money come from? You think people around 75% of the country will care anymore if they have no chance to win?

it basically becomes the USFL.

I mean...we're here?

We have no chance to win and haven't for 20 years.

Hell, Florida State didn't even have a chance to win this year.

 

[donniesyracuse]

so they get 100 million now for instance.. its all spent and gone for other things..

They wont be able to spend it all on other things.

 

[longtimefan]

The Ivys are close to being club sports already. They don't give scholarships and they don't make any real money. Yet that is where unionization is starting?

Of course they give scholarships. They just aren't called athletic scholarships. It's all needs-based.

 

[upperdeck]

They wont be able to spend it all on other things.

which means they wont fund sports then. if the goal is to use sports money to fund sports money and buy sports toys then why bother with sports at all.

If one sport goes union then they all go union most likely and then they have no chance to fund it.