No more excuses

[RF2044]

As long as we continue to recruit 3-stars and wind up in the 50s in the recruiting rankings we will have deficiencies and depth problems. Ergo, we need some bags delivered to sign the next magician.

Not true, at any level.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

As long as we continue to recruit 3-stars and wind up in the 50s in the recruiting rankings we will have deficiencies and depth problems. Ergo, we need some bags delivered to sign the next magician.

We recruit 5 stars.

We just don't get commitments from them.

But it isn't for lack of trying.

 

[sufandu]

As long as we continue to recruit 3-stars and wind up in the 50s in the recruiting rankings we will have deficiencies and depth problems. Ergo, we need some bags delivered to sign the next magician.

If bag delivery is the answer, I want no part in success or fandom. Fwiw, I don't think it is.

 

[OburgOrange]

Despite the thread title it seems like there are some excuses going on in this thread...

I thought the D came out ready to play and in fact could have kept the game respectable if we had an offense.

I watched my first SU game as a Syracuse area kid in 1958 and sat on the cold, wet Archibold steps as an SU student. Throughout my life as an aging guy we have had exactly four “magicians”; Don McPherson (my second favorite player behind Ernie), Marvin, Donovan, and Eric. That’s the list. We have had a few pure passers as well but the magicians shared a few characteristics. 1) despite being often characterized as “running QB’s” they hold a disproportionate number of SU passing records. 2) they were hard for opponents to prepare for 3) they often covered for weaknesses elsewhere on their side of the ball, 4) they often made those around them better, and finally 5) they could hurt you multiple ways.

This isn’t a knock on Tommy, who clearly has skills and potential, and I should emphasize is only a redshirt soph. But at this stage of his career he needs those around him to look good in order for him to look good.

Please stick around and keep posting. I miss your insights

 

[hungrychuck]

I know Servais dropped some weight in anticipation of playing tackle instead of center for quickness at the tackle position. He dropped quite a bit of weight in fact. Last night #44 for Clemson was lined up at nose guard and he was literally twice as big as Servais. #44 destroyed Servais last night. Heckel is smaller than Servais and quite frankly, that big Lithuanian from Liberty was destroying him while he was in there. Even with Heckel coming back, which I don't think he will anytime soon, the offense line for Syracuse University will still be a work in progress that isn't working.

I had lunch at the Varsity on Friday and happened to sit very near Servais and what appeared to be his family.

Now don't get me wrong, he is one big, jacked dude. If he were the bouncer at your local hangout, you wouldn't even think of looking at him wrong.

But it also struck me that he didn't necessarily look like a P5 offensive lineman. Looking more athletic than thick, almost like a big tight end.

 

[elimunelson]

I’m a long time Patriots fan and I remember in the late 90s talking to someone about Drew Bledsoe. I commented that if Drew got good line play, had a viable running game, and there were good receivers, that he could be a great QB. And then I realized that just about any QB who was on an NFL roster could be effective in that scenario.

The great QBs are the ones who lead a successful offense when not every aspect of play is strong.

Which is to say, we really need to figure out the offense pronto.

The guy i always think of ironically is Doug Flutie. Flutie wasn't some running qb but he was as elusive a qb there was and REFUSED to lose. We need Devito to get a little more Flutie ish. Easier said than done and i think he will get there but that's the guy i envision Devito could emulate.

 

[Scooch]

The guy i always think of ironically is Doug Flutie. Flutie wasn't some running qb but he was as elusive a qb there was and REFUSED to lose. We need Devito to get a little more Flutie ish. Easier said than done and i think he will get there but that's the guy i envision Devito could emulate.

Dungey had a LOT of Flutie in him.

 

[elimunelson]

Dungey had a LOT of Flutie in him.

Dungey was a guy who could run people over. He wasn't elusive as much as an I-Back. Devito isn't going to run many designed plays and neither did Doug. Dungey didn't have the arm that Doug had. Devito does.

I'll be curious what Devito turns into. He has an NFL arm will he add an NFL head to it?

 

[Scooch]

Dungey was a guy who could run people over. He wasn't elusive as much as an I-Back. Devito isn't going to run many designed plays and neither did Doug. Dungey didn't have the arm that Doug had. Devito does.

I'll be curious what Devito turns into. He has an NFL arm will he add an NFL head to it?

Agree about the running styles. I was thinking more of the 'will to win' stuff. I'd like to see that from TD.

 

[hungrychuck]

Dungey had a LOT of Flutie in him.

I actually agree that Dungey had a lot of Flutie in him. It wasn't just that he was big and could truck guys, which he really wasn't at first -- that type of size developed in his junior and senior years.

Eric also had that Spiderman sense of approaching danger and an ability to spin out of it to make something happen. Usually -- not always, but usually -- something good. Something that would make the opposing defensive coordinator say bad words.

My concern with Tommy is that I'm not sure that the Flutie/Dungey playmaker quality is something you develop. Maybe to a certain extent you recognize situations better and it helps you out of trouble, but I feel that sort of escapability is largely innate.

The good news is that I don't think Tommy needs to have it the same quantity to eventually be a good, capable P5 quarterback. He does bring another skill set to the table as Venables said in his postgame comments. I'm just afraid that the learning curve is going to be longer than some had suggested.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

The guy i always think of ironically is Doug Flutie. Flutie wasn't some running qb but he was as elusive a qb there was and REFUSED to lose. We need Devito to get a little more Flutie ish. Easier said than done and i think he will get there but that's the guy i envision Devito could emulate.

To be honest I don't see any resemblance between Tommy and Flutie in terms of skill set. The guy that Tommy's game reminds me most of, in SU terms, is Todd Philcox. Now Todd didn't truly hit his stride until he got to the NFL and in fact his SU stats were somewhat pedestrian, but as a pure pocket passer that is the general sort of guy that I am hoping that Tommy can eventually, someday, probably not this year but in a galaxy far far away, become for us.

 

[cuse10]

I agree but leadership doesn’t make you block or tackle . Leadership can inspire and teach
But it’s not a magic wand

Right. You have to want to tackle or block. It's all effort and mentality. Julian Whigham mentioned this on the most recent Syracuse.com podcast. I was the same way when I played (nowhere near this level). I hated hitting and tackling drills. The half assed arm tackles are to show that they're "trying", but they don't necessarily want to put pads on someone.

 

[hungrychuck]

To be honest I don't see any resemblance between Tommy and Flutie in terms of skill set. The guy that Tommy's game reminds me most of, in SU terms, is Todd Philcox. Now Todd didn't truly hit his stride until he got to the NFL and in fact his SU stats were somewhat pedestrian, but as a pure pocket passer that is the general sort of guy that I am hoping that Tommy can eventually, someday, probably not this year but in a galaxy far far away, become for us.

I think that's a good comparison Dick, except for a little difference in height.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Lets get it done the next 2 games. Get to 3-2 (re)entering conference play. Hopefully, 2 more games under his belt will get Tommy in better shape for those games. 7 wins is still very possible if he (and the line) grow up fast. But the next 2 are absolute must wins, starting with WMU. Losing that game could mean a very ugly season to come.

 

[storange]

To be honest I don't see any resemblance between Tommy and Flutie in terms of skill set. The guy that Tommy's game reminds me most of, in SU terms, is Todd Philcox. Now Todd didn't truly hit his stride until he got to the NFL and in fact his SU stats were somewhat pedestrian, but as a pure pocket passer that is the general sort of guy that I am hoping that Tommy can eventually, someday, probably not this year but in a galaxy far far away, become for us.

Todd had a great Senior season. A late loss to W. Va from a major bowl

 

[FrancoPizza]

My concern with Tommy is that I'm not sure that the Flutie/Dungey playmaker quality is something you develop. Maybe to a certain extent you recognize situations better and it helps you out of trouble, but I feel that sort of escapability is largely innate.

Agreed. It didn't take us long - maybe his first game - to recognize Dungey was going to be a player for us. And then of course, he took that cheap shot vs Central Michigan that started the issues. Wonder if it was one of those things where one injury begets another.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Todd had a great Senior season. A late loss to W. Va from a major bowl

Well that settles it. We just need to call up the 1988 offensive line and Tommy will be good to go.

 

[upperdeck]

Tommy doesnt trip up twice we probably score 2 TDs. the more he plays the better he gets it i think

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Of course. Traditionally SU has never had a stalwart OL. Which is why we’ve been at our best when we’ve had creative, tough, strong running QBs. Absent that we need very quick decision making. Not there yet.

Nailed it Scooch, with a caveat. Until fairly recent years we have always had a solid running attack. Our O-lineman were quite adept at firing out and opening holes for the 1000 yard rusher du jour. When they were asked to take a step back and pass block it was sometimes a different story. Our great scramblers often had to scramble as much out of necessity as out of design.

 

[storange]

Well that settles it. We just need to call up the 1988 offensive line and Tommy will be good to go.

Not what I was trying to say

 

[FrancoPizza]

Not what I was trying to say

I'm saying that had a LOT to do with Wilcox's success. He was surrounded by NFL and high-end college talent. And to his credit he capitalized.

 

[orangecuse]

We recruit 5 stars.

We just don't get commitments from them.

But it isn't for lack of trying.

Reminds me of my younger days when trying to get some type of commitment from a babe or few...I tried, but often the case, no cigar.

 

[dollarbill44]

Right. You have to want to tackle or block. It's all effort and mentality. Julian Whigham mentioned this on the most recent Syracuse.com podcast. I was the same way when I played (nowhere near this level). I hated hitting and tackling drills. The half assed arm tackles are to show that they're "trying", but they don't necessarily want to put pads on someone.

It's not just effort and mentality. There's more to it than that. You need to be strong enough and be in position to make a fundamental tackle. You can be big and strong but too slow to get to anyone. You can be fast and quick enough to be in position but not strong enough to bring a guy down.
Some credit needs to go to the clemson ball carriers too. Those are some strong, fast and elusive dudes who don't want to be tackled.
Plenty of guys wanted to tackle Jim Brown, but only Sam Huff seemed capable of doing it by himself, and even then, only half the time.

 

[dollarbill44]

Well that settles it. We just need to call up the 1988 offensive line and Tommy will be good to go.

This. Todd had a tremendous OL protecting him.

 

[orangecuse]

It's not just effort and mentality. There's more to it than that. You need to be strong enough and be in position to make a fundamental tackle. You can be big and strong but too slow to get to anyone. You can be fast and quick enough to be in position but not strong enough to bring a guy down.
Some credit needs to go to the clemson ball carriers too. Those are some strong, fast and elusive dudes who don't want to be tackled.
Plenty of guys wanted to tackle Jim Brown, but only Sam Huff seemed capable of doing it by himself, and even then, only half the time.

I understand what you're saying relative speaking, although, Jim Brown was one of a kind. The fact is, even in the NFL (where lack of size, speed, physicality isn't an issue as you're subjectively arguing) often the tackling technique is poor. So many players today don't make any attempt whatsoever to wrap their arms around people, but rather just lunge/lead/leverage the hit with their shoulder pad. Often the case, the running back/receiver merely bounces off and gains several more YAC then they should have.