Not advocating for it but if there is a change

[GoSU96]

this is what I'd be looking at.

1. The checkbook needs to be open - going to need to spend $6 to $8 million a year to get this right. Estimate $2.5M on HC, $750K to $1M on coordinators. Depends on who you get could range $500 higher or lower on the HC to start.

2. Standard caveat about the Dept. of Ed. numbers, but they show $SU had the 31st highest FB revenue and 32nd highest total revenue, 4th highest net after expense with $15M in 2013. SU has the benefit of having 2nd highest hoops revenue in FBS. Their resources are much greater than the last two higher cycles, no reason to be in the bottom 5 of HC salaries.

3. The "who would want to come to Syracuse stuff is ridiculous". ACC, three years of a core group of offensive skill talent and young defense to build.

4. You can't worry about "stepping stone" issues. If a guy does a good enough job of being hired out of here by the NFL or higher tier within FBS, so be it. There are no lifers.

5. If Richt or Malzahn were to get bounced, first calls I'd make. Not likely but you have to ask.

6. Next scenario I'd look at is Bo Pellini (defense, very good record at Neb.) with Kingsbury or Holgerson if they are looking for jobs at OC. Tell him, I'll get you out of the penalty box, but I need offense. If they do well expect you'll be looking to restaff in 3 yrs. It would be expensive but I think in theory, not knowing the personal dynamics, you'd hit the ground running.

7. Non P5, Harsin, Fuente, Campbell all answer the mail. Rhule is hot, but what he brings to the table doesn't get me fired up.

8. Next group are guys with limited HC track records (first or second season) with offensive backgrounds, Tom Herman, Chad Morris, Phil Montgomery, Jeff Brohm. Pure potential plays, are they ready to take the next step. Is that really an issue here since the last three hires have been NFL DC, NFL OC, internal promotion from DC.

9. Mac-tactular - Babers, Carey, Fleck. Babers is a older than I'd be looking for. Carey has the same N.Illinois background as Fleck, but has won big there picking up where Doren left off. None of these guys really do it for me.

10. NFL - Pep Hamilton would be at the top, but the bloom might be off since things have gone south in Indy. Ryan Day, Philly QB coach. Kelly and Addazizio protege. Power Spread? Sounds like the Deleone offense, which in a lot of ways it is. (Edit) and Matt Patricia.

 

[orangeinjersey]

I really dislike the "no one is coming to SU" argument. A lot of these locales where these guys are now, arent exactly hawaii. If we pay market rate, we'll be fine.

I honestly dont think if we lose out, that HCSS will be back. There will be too much negativity.

If I were Coyle...

1. Have the Feelers out to his finalist list at Boise now...
2. Hire new guy
3. follow up a week later with new Carrier Dome renderings...
4. Build Carrier Dome model/3d virtual Tour at Manley Football Complex to sell incoming recruits.

 

[elimunelson]

Someone pay Orgeron to come back. Guy was a lunatic.

 

[OrangePA]

Matt Patricia.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I don't think it's no one would come to SU, but with all the openings and more to come would you get your top choice? That is my biggest concern.

 

[supp]

this is what I'd be looking at.

1. The checkbook needs to be open - going to need to spend $6 to $8 million a year to get this right. Estimate $2.5M on HC, $750K to $1M on coordinators. Depends on who you get could range $500 higher or lower on the HC to start.

2. Standard caveat about the Dept. of Ed. numbers, but they show $SU had the 31st highest FB revenue and 32nd highest total revenue, 4th highest net after expense with $15M in 2013. SU has the benefit of having 2nd highest hoops revenue in FBS. Their resources are much greater than the last two higher cycles, no reason to be in the bottom 5 of HC salaries.

3. The "who would want to come to Syracuse stuff is ridiculous". ACC, three years of a core group of offensive skill talent and young defense to build.

4. You can't worry about "stepping stone" issues. If a guy does a good enough job of being hired out of here by the NFL or higher tier within FBS, so be it. There are no lifers.

5. If Richt or Malzahn were to get bounced, first calls I'd make. Not likely but you have to ask.

6. Next scenario I'd look at is Bo Pellini (defense, very good record at Neb.) with Kingsbury or Holgerson if they are looking for jobs at OC. Tell him, I'll get you out of the penalty box, but I need offense. If they do well expect you'll be looking to restaff in 3 yrs. It would be expensive but I think in theory, not knowing the personal dynamics, you'd hit the ground running.

7. Non P5, Harsin, Fuente, Campbell all answer the mail. Rhule is hot, but what he brings to the table doesn't get me fired up.

8. Next group are guys with limited HC track records (first or second season) with offensive backgrounds, Tom Herman, Chad Morris, Phil Montgomery, Jeff Brohm. Pure potential plays, are they ready to take the next step. Is that really an issue here since the last three hires have been NFL DC, NFL OC, internal promotion from DC.

9. Mac-tactular - Babers, Carey, Fleck. Babers is a older than I'd be looking for. Carey has the same N.Illinois background as Fleck, but has won big there picking up where Doren left off. None of these guys really do it for me.

10. NFL - Pep Hamilton would be at the top, but the bloom might be off since things have gone south in Indy. Ryan Day, Philly QB coach. Kelly and Addazizio protege. Power Spread? Sounds like the Deleone offense, which in a lot of ways it is. (Edit) and Matt Patricia.

What your post nicely shows is that there are plenty of HC candidates out there that can bring us into the 21st century. Not that all of them would definitely be successful here but it undercuts all the talk about too many jobs and not enough qualified coaches.

 

[GoSU96]

What your post nicely shows is that there are plenty of HC candidates out there that can bring us into the 21st century. Not that all of them would definitely be successful here but it undercuts all the talk about too many jobs and not enough qualified coaches.

And that's not even looking that the coordinator pool in P5 or the NFL all that much.

 

[elimunelson]

Matt Patricia.

that's been my call throughout. Coyle may have an issue w hiring a non HC type again. But he checks a ton of boxes in the intelligence dept and CNY roots.

He can be had for 2mm i have to think. Will want a ton of security to leave New England for Syracuse especially since he'll be on NFL lists as well.

 

[GoSU96]

I don't think it's no one would come to SU, but with all the openings and more to come would you get your top choice? That is my biggest concern.

And depending on "the more to come" there might be some viable candidates there.

 

[GoSU96]

Matt Patricia.

Patricia with a college offensive guy would be interesting. Recruiting bench would be a priority.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't think it's no one would come to SU, but with all the openings and more to come would you get your top choice? That is my biggest concern.

My top choice would be "anybody that's been good on offense" so, yes, I think my top choice is within reach.

 

[Millhouse]

Matt Patricia.

there is a big world out there.

we act like we're north carolina basketball here

an NFL defensive coordinator with no head coaching experience and fancy jewelry because of an all time great hall of fame qb gets to be our head coach because he was a grad assistant during the 2002 season?

 

[GoSU96]

there is a big world out there.

we act like we're north carolina basketball here

an NFL defensive coordinator with no head coaching experience and fancy jewelry because of an all time great hall of fame qb gets to be our head coach because he was a grad assistant during the 2002 season?

I think it has more to do with seeing how the organization is run.

If the guy brings the right attitude and makes the right hire, doesn't make a difference he has a defensive background.

 

[Chip]

Agree with pretty much all, especially #1 and #3. If we pay the money for #1, there are a lot of things going us that make #3 a ridiculous thought. I think an offensive mind would jump at the chance.

I get what you're saying about Pelini, but I think it's easier to force the hand of an offensive guy telling him this is what you expect (and will pay for) on defense than the other way around. The only offensive guy I can think of that has stubborn brand of defense to bring with him is RichRod. I would think the rest don't care as long as they can get the ball back.

Defensive guys though, different mentality. It's tougher to get them to think offense will win them the game. Patterson finally evolved and maybe more will follow his model but these guys just tend to be more set in stone about the role of offense.

I don't think Malzahn is going anywhere, but the Richt noise is piling up. Would South Carolina jump all over that one?

I saw your other King for a Day post, and maybe that's for message board conversation, but I think it would be terrible for SU to go down that path. We need a coach who has the ideas himself, not to have them forced upon him. That's the coach who will continue to make moves like we see at halftime because he can't manage it all. It's the single biggest item to watch when a coordinator makes the jump. Can they handle it all? 3 years in, and I don't see it yet. 2 halftimes in a row to score and hand back momentum might be the 2nd to final nail. Another 3 win season being the final one.

 

[Millhouse]

I think it has more to do with seeing how the organization is run.

If the guy brings the right attitude and makes the right hire, doesn't make a difference he has a defensive background.

i don't trust a defensive coach as much. ideal world, a defensive hardass with an air raid offense is ideal. stoops and patterson are rare guys. i would need a lot of convincing if i were king of SU, pinky swears and everything

 

[phil77]

I put a nice list in the Riley thread. That is who we should interview and we should hire someone from that list IMO.

 

[orangecuse]

I really dislike the "no one is coming to SU" argument. A lot of these locales where these guys are now, arent exactly hawaii. If we pay market rate, we'll be fine.

I honestly dont think if we lose out, that HCSS will be back. There will be too much negativity.

If I were Coyle...

1. Have the Feelers out to his finalist list at Boise now...
2. Hire new guy
3. follow up a week later with new Carrier Dome renderings...
4. Build Carrier Dome model/3d virtual Tour at Manley Football Complex to sell incoming recruits.

I generally agree, especially losing out...even going 4-8 with knocking off BC in the finale won't stop the bleeding. Coyle really has an opportunistic chance here to make his mark, especially with the significant amount of coin to be spent for the dome renovation that is apparently happening in the very near future. Making a coaching change, along with the aforementioned, can energize the dormant fan base (locals) and take a forward step in getting fannies back in the dome. Otherwise, without the change, why would the casual fan ever want to get up to the dome just to watch the same wash, rinse, repeat cycle...

 

[Crusty]

this is what I'd be looking at.

1. The checkbook needs to be open - going to need to spend $6 to $8 million a year to get this right. Estimate $2.5M on HC, $750K to $1M on coordinators. Depends on who you get could range $500 higher or lower on the HC to start.

2. Standard caveat about the Dept. of Ed. numbers, but they show $SU had the 31st highest FB revenue and 32nd highest total revenue, 4th highest net after expense with $15M in 2013. SU has the benefit of having 2nd highest hoops revenue in FBS. Their resources are much greater than the last two higher cycles, no reason to be in the bottom 5 of HC salaries.

3. The "who would want to come to Syracuse stuff is ridiculous". ACC, three years of a core group of offensive skill talent and young defense to build.

4. You can't worry about "stepping stone" issues. If a guy does a good enough job of being hired out of here by the NFL or higher tier within FBS, so be it. There are no lifers.

5. If Richt or Malzahn were to get bounced, first calls I'd make. Not likely but you have to ask.

6. Next scenario I'd look at is Bo Pellini (defense, very good record at Neb.) with Kingsbury or Holgerson if they are looking for jobs at OC. Tell him, I'll get you out of the penalty box, but I need offense. If they do well expect you'll be looking to restaff in 3 yrs. It would be expensive but I think in theory, not knowing the personal dynamics, you'd hit the ground running.

7. Non P5, Harsin, Fuente, Campbell all answer the mail. Rhule is hot, but what he brings to the table doesn't get me fired up.

8. Next group are guys with limited HC track records (first or second season) with offensive backgrounds, Tom Herman, Chad Morris, Phil Montgomery, Jeff Brohm. Pure potential plays, are they ready to take the next step. Is that really an issue here since the last three hires have been NFL DC, NFL OC, internal promotion from DC.

9. Mac-tactular - Babers, Carey, Fleck. Babers is a older than I'd be looking for. Carey has the same N.Illinois background as Fleck, but has won big there picking up where Doren left off. None of these guys really do it for me.

10. NFL - Pep Hamilton would be at the top, but the bloom might be off since things have gone south in Indy. Ryan Day, Philly QB coach. Kelly and Addazizio protege. Power Spread? Sounds like the Deleone offense, which in a lot of ways it is. (Edit) and Matt Patricia.

Unless we get the budget to $6 million, we will just be spinning our wheels. That is about the average of the ACC.
The guy we need is Matt Campbell, 35, Toledo HC. Great offensive mind and perfect for the dome.

 

[OrangePA]

there is a big world out there.

we act like we're north carolina basketball here

an NFL defensive coordinator with no head coaching experience and fancy jewelry because of an all time great hall of fame qb gets to be our head coach because he was a grad assistant during the 2002 season?

I like him because: (1) he's a friggin genius - literally engineer from RPI; (2) he has extensive coaching experience on both sides of the ball - lots of OL coaching experience which I like; (3) he knows Syracuse and Central NY - I think that's an important factor; (4) he has the Bill B pedigree that I think sells.; (5) he apparently relates well to players and (6) he could be a legacy coach.

JB had no head coaching experience. Marrone had no head coaching experience. Get the right guy and that's not as much a factor for me.

 

[Crusty]

I like him because: (1) he's a friggin genius - literally engineer from RPI; (2) he has extensive coaching experience on both sides of the ball - lots of OL coaching experience which I like; (3) he knows Syracuse and Central NY - I think that's an important factor; (4) he has the Bill B pedigree that I think sells.; (5) he apparently relates well to players and (6) he could be a legacy coach.

JB had no head coaching experience. Marrone had no head coaching experience. Get the right guy and that's not as much a factor for me.

Who?

 

[Ozcuse]

My issue with defensive minded head coaches is that they usually try to protect their defensive guys. This tends to mean they want slower ball control offenses to minimize the time their defensive players are on the field.

I like him because: (1) he's a friggin genius - literally engineer from RPI; (2) he has extensive coaching experience on both sides of the ball - lots of OL coaching experience which I like; (3) he knows Syracuse and Central NY - I think that's an important factor; (4) he has the Bill B pedigree that I think sells.; (5) he apparently relates well to players and (6) he could be a legacy coach.

JB had no head coaching experience. Marrone had no head coaching experience. Get the right guy and that's not as much a factor for me.

Matt P. seems like the opposite of meathead coach to me (he majored in aerospace engineering at RPI so he's a rocket scientist) That alone is huge in my book. I don't know how he would do at recruiting but it's not like we are doing great as it is. My concern is who does he know and what type of offense would he want to run?

 

[Millhouse]

I like him because: (1) he's a friggin genius - literally engineer from RPI; (2) he has extensive coaching experience on both sides of the ball - lots of OL coaching experience which I like; (3) he knows Syracuse and Central NY - I think that's an important factor; (4) he has the Bill B pedigree that I think sells.; (5) he apparently relates well to players and (6) he could be a legacy coach.

JB had no head coaching experience. Marrone had no head coaching experience. Get the right guy and that's not as much a factor for me.

i'm not opposed to a coordinator. but they have to fix the offense.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Richt underachieved at a powerhouse SEC program. But I'm sure if he came to a program with a fraction of the resources with less fertile recruiting ground he'd kill it.

 

[elimunelson]

I like him because: (1) he's a friggin genius - literally engineer from RPI; (2) he has extensive coaching experience on both sides of the ball - lots of OL coaching experience which I like; (3) he knows Syracuse and Central NY - I think that's an important factor; (4) he has the Bill B pedigree that I think sells.; (5) he apparently relates well to players and (6) he could be a legacy coach.

JB had no head coaching experience. Marrone had no head coaching experience. Get the right guy and that's not as much a factor for me.

I want the type of offense that scores more points than the other offense. If it's high flying awesome, if it's ground and pound awesome. Just figure it out. I harp on special teams but if we don't have the personnel to put up 40 ppg then figure out a way to get those 3 points when they need em.

Our last 10 win season we were 68th in offense. The defense carried us to 10 wins. Would everyone be offended by this?

 

[Millhouse]

I want the type of offense that scores more points than the other offense. If it's high flying awesome, if it's ground and pound awesome. Just figure it out. I harp on special teams but if we don't have the personnel to put up 40 ppg then figure out a way to get those 3 points when they need em.

Our last 10 win season we were 68th in offense. The defense carried us to 10 wins. Would everyone be offended by this?

would you be offended by hiring a college offensive coach considering how many years we've tried the defensive white knuckle approach since 2001