Not advocating for it but if there is a change

[Orangejet]

How about Mike Leach at WSU for he will light up the old and new Dome. Loves to hunt & fish so CNY would be a perfect spot for him. Has a better chance succeeding at the Cuse in the ACC than WSU in the Pac12.

 

[orangeinjersey]

How about Mike Leach at WSU for he will light up the old and new Dome. Loves to hunt & fish so CNY would be a perfect spot for him. Has a better chance succeeding at the Cuse in the ACC than WSU in the Pac12.

I was thinking about Leach on the train ride in. Is Syracuse a better situation than Pullman?? It looks like things are starting to click for him and that program over there, why decide to leave now? Unless the brinks truck is backup up on his front lawn. Has the whole Texas Tech fiasco stink gone away yet? I would take leach here in a heartbeat by the way. How about giving Tubberville a shot at a semi bigger program in a P5? Would he come? Do we want him?

 

[HOFCeluck]

TT is 61.

 

[BlackKnight76]

this is what I'd be looking at. 1. The checkbook needs to be open - going to need to spend $6 to $8 million a year to get this right. Estimate $2.5M on HC, $750K to $1M on coordinators. Depends on who you get could range $500 higher or lower on the HC to start. 2. Standard caveat about the Dept. of Ed. numbers, but they show $SU had the 31st highest FB revenue and 32nd highest total revenue, 4th highest net after expense with $15M in 2013. SU has the benefit of having 2nd highest hoops revenue in FBS. Their resources are much greater than the last two higher cycles, no reason to be in the bottom 5 of HC salaries. 3. The "who would want to come to Syracuse stuff is ridiculous". ACC, three years of a core group of offensive skill talent and young defense to build. 4. You can't worry about "stepping stone" issues. If a guy does a good enough job of being hired out of here by the NFL or higher tier within FBS, so be it. There are no lifers. 5. If Richt or Malzahn were to get bounced, first calls I'd make. Not likely but you have to ask. 6. Next scenario I'd look at is Bo Pellini (defense, very good record at Neb.) with Kingsbury or Holgerson if they are looking for jobs at OC. Tell him, I'll get you out of the penalty box, but I need offense. If they do well expect you'll be looking to restaff in 3 yrs. It would be expensive but I think in theory, not knowing the personal dynamics, you'd hit the ground running. 7. Non P5, Harsin, Fuente, Campbell all answer the mail. Rhule is hot, but what he brings to the table doesn't get me fired up. 8. Next group are guys with limited HC track records (first or second season) with offensive backgrounds, Tom Herman, Chad Morris, Phil Montgomery, Jeff Brohm. Pure potential plays, are they ready to take the next step. Is that really an issue here since the last three hires have been NFL DC, NFL OC, internal promotion from DC. 9. Mac-tactular - Babers, Carey, Fleck. Babers is a older than I'd be looking for. Carey has the same N.Illinois background as Fleck, but has won big there picking up where Doren left off. None of these guys really do it for me. 10. NFL - Pep Hamilton would be at the top, but the bloom might be off since things have gone south in Indy. Ryan Day, Philly QB coach. Kelly and Addazizio protege. Power Spread? Sounds like the Deleone offense, which in a lot of ways it is. (Edit) and Matt Patricia.

Don't agree on every individual guy (I have a man crush on Matt Rhule dating back to last year) but you're looking in the right places. If Syracuse acts like it deserves to be in the conversation with a potential hire, we'll be okay.

 

[billsin01]

this is what I'd be looking at.

1. The checkbook needs to be open - going to need to spend $6 to $8 million a year to get this right. Estimate $2.5M on HC, $750K to $1M on coordinators. Depends on who you get could range $500 higher or lower on the HC to start.

3. The "who would want to come to Syracuse stuff is ridiculous". ACC, three years of a core group of offensive skill talent and young defense to build.

Posted this exact thought (at least no. 2) last week. I think $6M is absolute bottom-barrel, low-end for even considering a change. In fact, as much as I enjoy the rest of the post, it could have ended here. Otherwise you just start over for the sake of starting over. Yes, you could hit a home run, but chances are you won't, in which case you try and figure out what you can do with this staff until your hand is forced.

The 'who would want to come to syracuse' stuff is more legit than you think, IMO. If you have no ties to upstate NY you likely think it's a completely miserable place to live/work (even if you're from CNY, you may think this. Even if you live in CNY ...). That's not to say it's true, but it's out there. You also have to have MAJOR doubts about the university's commitment to big-time football. Yes, it's improved, but let's be real -- if you're looking at history there are some red flags. I interviewed with a company for a sales job -- good $$$, smaller territory, great product but they had had some financial woes a couple years back. They swore up and down they were stronger than ever. Turned down the job, they filed for bankruptcy last week. Sometimes doubts are well-founded despite appearances to the contrary.

Then there are the other challenges: lackluster attendance, mundane game-day atmosphere, aging dome, location relative to recruiting ...

Bottom line, there are major challenges to taking this job. Can you build a winner here? Absolutely, but to suggest it's without huge hurdles is ridiculous. If you're a hot HC candidate, SU is going to have to pay you enough to overcome those issues. That's why $2.5M for a head coach is the absolute floor, IMO.

4. You can't worry about "stepping stone" issues. If a guy does a good enough job of being hired out of here by the NFL or higher tier within FBS, so be it. There are no lifers.

I dream of a coach who does well enough to ditch us for USC. I'd give my right arm for that. This whole notion that we are a stepping stone is, well, true. That's what we are to a degree and people need to get over it. It's what the vast majority of programs are. The key is finding the right guy to guide you for a while until he leaves.

5. If Richt or Malzahn were to get bounced, first calls I'd make. Not likely but you have to ask.

6. Next scenario I'd look at is Bo Pellini (defense, very good record at Neb.) with Kingsbury or Holgerson if they are looking for jobs at OC. Tell him, I'll get you out of the penalty box, but I need offense. If they do well expect you'll be looking to restaff in 3 yrs. It would be expensive but I think in theory, not knowing the personal dynamics, you'd hit the ground running.

7. Non P5, Harsin, Fuente, Campbell all answer the mail. Rhule is hot, but what he brings to the table doesn't get me fired up.

8. Next group are guys with limited HC track records (first or second season) with offensive backgrounds, Tom Herman, Chad Morris, Phil Montgomery, Jeff Brohm. Pure potential plays, are they ready to take the next step. Is that really an issue here since the last three hires have been NFL DC, NFL OC, internal promotion from DC.

9. Mac-tactular - Babers, Carey, Fleck. Babers is a older than I'd be looking for. Carey has the same N.Illinois background as Fleck, but has won big there picking up where Doren left off. None of these guys really do it for me.

10. NFL - Pep Hamilton would be at the top, but the bloom might be off since things have gone south in Indy. Ryan Day, Philly QB coach. Kelly and Addazizio protege. Power Spread? Sounds like the Deleone offense, which in a lot of ways it is. (Edit) and Matt Patricia.

I'm going to throw a name out that people will hate but I can't help but wonder about. Randy Edsall. Yes, he's an a-hole. Of course, all that really makes him is a football coach. Yes, he was unceremoniously dumped by UMD and he doesn't make many friends ... anywhere.

But if you look at the dude's resume:

• Coached under Mac in what was obviously the undisputed golden era of this program.
• Moves to BC for it's golden era under coughlin
• Moves to Jax and is a big part of their initial success
• Short but successful tenure at GT as DC
• Moves to UConn and, IMO, basically plays miracle worker. Program with zero history, zero facilities and zero recruiting advantages -- yet they somehow become marginally relevant, going 69-53 and going to five bowls in his final 9 seasons. Not only that, they actually managed to land at least as much talent as SU in that span despite major disadvantages.
• Moves to MD and it ends horribly. But if you look closer -- he jettisoned a bunch of players in year 1 and it tanked the season, though that practice is not entirely rare. He was pretty bad in Year 2 as well, though it probably has a lot to do with the overhaul. By year 3 they are respectable and make a bowl. Year 4 they have to move to the big 1o, horrible spot for UMD, but they still improve and make a bowl again. Then he gets canned this year after a 2-4 start, but their losses are to Bowling Green (6-2, 86 unanswered points, only losses to Tenn. and a really solid Memphis team by an FG. Beat purdue on the road), WVU (yes, four losses in a row but three on the road vs. top 15 teams and another to a top 25 Okie st. team), Michigan and Ohio State. Since he was dispatched, they've lost to Ped St. (7-2), and no. 10 Iowa. And, for good measure, they knock off USF by 18 (we lost to them, if I recall correctly). I mean, honestly, do we beat anyone other than Richmond on their schedule?

Anyway, I know people will hate that call, but I think the job Edsall did at UConn was unreal

 

[BlackKnight76]

Edsall's very mediocre. I'd honestly rather roll the dice on Shafer. Not a big Shafer guy right now but he probably had a higher ceiling than Dancin' Randy, even if the floor's a by lower.

 

[billsin01]

Edsall's very mediocre. I'd honestly rather roll the dice on Shafer. Not a big Shafer guy right now but he probably had a higher ceiling than Dancin' Randy, even if the floor's a by lower.

I don't really disagree and I wouldn't think they'd head Edsall's direction -- more thinking about another name to toss in. My only thing with him is, unlike most here, I really respect what he somehow managed to do at UConn. I mean, P is no coaching dynamo per se, but he knows how to put a team together and he and Weist (his in-season successor) combined to win 13 games in the three years following edsall and Diaco won 2 in his first season. They seem to be improved a bit this season (albeit with squeakers over Nova and Army and a blowout over a disintegrating UCF team), but they'll still end up under .500. Guy's a dope but he did a pretty good job at a school with even more hurdles than SU has.

 

[Czar]

Just a big note, Kingsbury isn't getting fired. Tech is in a good place right now. Give that up right now, it's ridiculous.

Also, the history of New England coordinators is... less than stellar. Patricia will wait for an NFL shot anyway. Give that up.

 

[GoSU96]

Just a big note, Kingsbury isn't getting fired. Tech is in a good place right now. Give that up right now, it's ridiculous.

Also, the history of New England coordinators is... less than stellar. Patricia will wait for an NFL shot anyway. Give that up.

Yes, sir, whatever you say sir.

It's internet spit balling. Kingsbury was sitting at 30 on the Coaches Hotseat, it was done as much to describe a concept of a possible approach.

Pelini showed he could run a program a consistently high level. To date Holgerson and Kingsbury have shown they are good at putting high end offenses on the field, but not the whole deal. Bring those two talents together, the CEO providing the adult supervision to the hotshot.

 

[VirginiaOrange]

this is what I'd be looking at.

1. The checkbook needs to be open - going to need to spend $6 to $8 million a year to get this right. Estimate $2.5M on HC, $750K to $1M on coordinators. Depends on who you get could range $500 higher or lower on the HC to start.

2. Standard caveat about the Dept. of Ed. numbers, but they show $SU had the 31st highest FB revenue and 32nd highest total revenue, 4th highest net after expense with $15M in 2013. SU has the benefit of having 2nd highest hoops revenue in FBS. Their resources are much greater than the last two higher cycles, no reason to be in the bottom 5 of HC salaries.

3. The "who would want to come to Syracuse stuff is ridiculous". ACC, three years of a core group of offensive skill talent and young defense to build.

4. You can't worry about "stepping stone" issues. If a guy does a good enough job of being hired out of here by the NFL or higher tier within FBS, so be it. There are no lifers.

5. If Richt or Malzahn were to get bounced, first calls I'd make. Not likely but you have to ask.

6. Next scenario I'd look at is Bo Pellini (defense, very good record at Neb.) with Kingsbury or Holgerson if they are looking for jobs at OC. Tell him, I'll get you out of the penalty box, but I need offense. If they do well expect you'll be looking to restaff in 3 yrs. It would be expensive but I think in theory, not knowing the personal dynamics, you'd hit the ground running.

7. Non P5, Harsin, Fuente, Campbell all answer the mail. Rhule is hot, but what he brings to the table doesn't get me fired up.

8. Next group are guys with limited HC track records (first or second season) with offensive backgrounds, Tom Herman, Chad Morris, Phil Montgomery, Jeff Brohm. Pure potential plays, are they ready to take the next step. Is that really an issue here since the last three hires have been NFL DC, NFL OC, internal promotion from DC.

9. Mac-tactular - Babers, Carey, Fleck. Babers is a older than I'd be looking for. Carey has the same N.Illinois background as Fleck, but has won big there picking up where Doren left off. None of these guys really do it for me.

10. NFL - Pep Hamilton would be at the top, but the bloom might be off since things have gone south in Indy. Ryan Day, Philly QB coach. Kelly and Addazizio protege. Power Spread? Sounds like the Deleone offense, which in a lot of ways it is. (Edit) and Matt Patricia.

There are going to be 10+ open HC positions - almost 10% of the total. Either you pay up or you end up with a runner up. Many of the 10+ will be viewed as being better than SU whether we agree or not.

 

[OrangePA]

Posted this exact thought (at least no. 2) last week. I think $6M is absolute bottom-barrel, low-end for even considering a change. In fact, as much as I enjoy the rest of the post, it could have ended here. Otherwise you just start over for the sake of starting over. Yes, you could hit a home run, but chances are you won't, in which case you try and figure out what you can do with this staff until your hand is forced.

The 'who would want to come to syracuse' stuff is more legit than you think, IMO. If you have no ties to upstate NY you likely think it's a completely miserable place to live/work (even if you're from CNY, you may think this. Even if you live in CNY ...). That's not to say it's true, but it's out there. You also have to have MAJOR doubts about the university's commitment to big-time football. Yes, it's improved, but let's be real -- if you're looking at history there are some red flags. I interviewed with a company for a sales job -- good $$$, smaller territory, great product but they had had some financial woes a couple years back. They swore up and down they were stronger than ever. Turned down the job, they filed for bankruptcy last week. Sometimes doubts are well-founded despite appearances to the contrary.

Then there are the other challenges: lackluster attendance, mundane game-day atmosphere, aging dome, location relative to recruiting ...

Bottom line, there are major challenges to taking this job. Can you build a winner here? Absolutely, but to suggest it's without huge hurdles is ridiculous. If you're a hot HC candidate, SU is going to have to pay you enough to overcome those issues. That's why $2.5M for a head coach is the absolute floor, IMO.



I dream of a coach who does well enough to ditch us for USC. I'd give my right arm for that. This whole notion that we are a stepping stone is, well, true. That's what we are to a degree and people need to get over it. It's what the vast majority of programs are. The key is finding the right guy to guide you for a while until he leaves.



I'm going to throw a name out that people will hate but I can't help but wonder about. Randy Edsall. Yes, he's an a-hole. Of course, all that really makes him is a football coach. Yes, he was unceremoniously dumped by UMD and he doesn't make many friends ... anywhere.

But if you look at the dude's resume:

• Coached under Mac in what was obviously the undisputed golden era of this program.
• Moves to BC for it's golden era under coughlin
• Moves to Jax and is a big part of their initial success
• Short but successful tenure at GT as DC
• Moves to UConn and, IMO, basically plays miracle worker. Program with zero history, zero facilities and zero recruiting advantages -- yet they somehow become marginally relevant, going 69-53 and going to five bowls in his final 9 seasons. Not only that, they actually managed to land at least as much talent as SU in that span despite major disadvantages.
• Moves to MD and it ends horribly. But if you look closer -- he jettisoned a bunch of players in year 1 and it tanked the season, though that practice is not entirely rare. He was pretty bad in Year 2 as well, though it probably has a lot to do with the overhaul. By year 3 they are respectable and make a bowl. Year 4 they have to move to the big 1o, horrible spot for UMD, but they still improve and make a bowl again. Then he gets canned this year after a 2-4 start, but their losses are to Bowling Green (6-2, 86 unanswered points, only losses to Tenn. and a really solid Memphis team by an FG. Beat purdue on the road), WVU (yes, four losses in a row but three on the road vs. top 15 teams and another to a top 25 Okie st. team), Michigan and Ohio State. Since he was dispatched, they've lost to Ped St. (7-2), and no. 10 Iowa. And, for good measure, they knock off USF by 18 (we lost to them, if I recall correctly). I mean, honestly, do we beat anyone other than Richmond on their schedule?

Anyway, I know people will hate that call, but I think the job Edsall did at UConn was unreal

I would have no problem with Randy Edsall.

 

[elimunelson]

I would have no problem with Randy Edsall.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I would have no problem with Randy Edsall.

You love this shite. Next you will be preaching about the acumen of Rich Kotite and what a great great coach Charlie Weiss was at Kansas

 

[Millhouse]

You love this shite. Next you will be preaching about the acumen of Rich Kotite and what a great great coach Charlie Weiss was at Kansas

the guy played for SU! sure, he threw one pass and it was an INT but that counts for so much!

 

[Scooch]

the guy played for SU! sure, he threw one pass and it was an INT but that counts for so much!

I played intramural softball at SU. When do I get to be considered for head coach?!?!?!

 

[OrangePA]

You love this shite. Next you will be preaching about the acumen of Rich Kotite and what a great great coach Charlie Weiss was at Kansas

Hey, watch it - I was a huge Buddy Ryan guy.

True Eagles fans had no time for Rich Kotite.

 

[OrangePA]

the guy played for SU! sure, he threw one pass and it was an INT but that counts for so much!

He was a recruiting coordinator for Coach Mac.

He was on the staff the brought us to the Sugar Bowl.

He is also a disciple of Tom Coughlin.

I have always liked Randy and I always hoped that he would get the SU HC job.

And, yeah, I have to admit - I'm a Syracuse guy and I like Syracuse players and coaches.

I guess you don't understand.

Let me try to explain another way:

 

[FAL]

Hey, watch it - I was a huge Buddy Ryan guy.

True Eagles fans had no time for Rich Kotite.

Or Cow-Chip Kelly!

 

[OrangePA]

I played intramural softball at SU. When do I get to be considered for head coach?!?!?!

I'm not sure, but I think that band geeks are automatically ineligible for any athletic appointment under NCAA Rules.

 

[elimunelson]

I'm not sure, but I think that band geeks are automatically ineligible for any athletic appointment under NCAA Rules.

He was a recruiting coordinator for Coach Mac.

He was on the staff the brought us to the Sugar Bowl.

He is also a disciple of Tom Coughlin.

I have always liked Randy and I always hoped that he would get the SU HC job.

And, yeah, I have to admit - I'm a Syracuse guy and I like Syracuse players and coaches.

I guess you don't understand.

Let me try to explain another way:

View attachment 53560

I would take Tom Coughlin right now actually.

Randy had his shot at coaching this team. Let the burn taste when he doesn't get a look. He could have come at a time when we needed him and chose not to interview. I actually think he's a decent HC but the ship sailed on him

 

[Millhouse]

He was a recruiting coordinator for Coach Mac.

He was on the staff the brought us to the Sugar Bowl.

He is also a disciple of Tom Coughlin.

I have always liked Randy and I always hoped that he would get the SU HC job.

And, yeah, I have to admit - I'm a Syracuse guy and I like Syracuse players and coaches.

I guess you don't understand.

Let me try to explain another way:

View attachment 53560

please keep your urological schematics private in the future, thanks

 

[billsin01]

I would take Tom Coughlin right now actually.

Randy had his shot at coaching this team. Let the burn taste when he doesn't get a look. He could have come at a time when we needed him and chose not to interview. I actually think he's a decent HC but the ship sailed on him

If you don't like him b/c you're not buying into him as a coach -- which is probably the case -- I get it. But emotions surrounding a guy deciding not to interview at some point is the wrong reason. This is a dirty game -- if someone can come in here and win without just absolutely killing the program with off-field issues, then we want him. I don't care if it's someone who turned down the job or was involved in a scandal somewhere, etc.

 

[Millhouse]

If you don't like him b/c you're not buying into him as a coach -- which is probably the case -- I get it. But emotions surrounding a guy deciding not to interview at some point is the wrong reason. This is a dirty game -- if someone can come in here and win without just absolutely killing the program with off-field issues, then we want him. I don't care if it's someone who turned down the job or was involved in a scandal somewhere, etc.

edsall's offenses are terrible. that's what disqualifies him. you might get an average offense every 4 years. no thanks

 

[billsin01]

edsall's offenses are terrible. that's what disqualifies him. you might get an average offense every 4 years. no thanks

Fair enough. One question, though, do you not think what he did at UConn was a miracle? I mean, they were essentially competitive in IAA at the time and had horrible facilities and stadium. That's the only thing that gives me pause. I'm not an inordinately big edsall fan but unless they are going to pay huge coin, we're going to be rolling the dice on someone with little to no experience. That makes me nervous. That's my only point with edsall. I think you're competitive from day 1 with a chance to be a team that competes for a conference title every now and again. Right now that seems like a scenario that's' light years away.

 

[Millhouse]

Fair enough. One question, though, do you not think what he did at UConn was a miracle? I mean, they were essentially competitive in IAA at the time and had horrible facilities and stadium. That's the only thing that gives me pause. I'm not an inordinately big edsall fan but unless they are going to pay huge coin, we're going to be rolling the dice on someone with little to no experience. That makes me nervous. That's my only point with edsall. I think you're competitive from day 1 with a chance to be a team that competes for a conference title every now and again. Right now that seems like a scenario that's' light years away.

he should go work for someone like uconn was then. we need an offense. he doesn't fit here