Nothing new here

[jr4750]

If it wasn't for the Dome and the Ensley Center not sure why any kids these days would venture to the hill. As an alum and current upstate NY resident the weather sucks. Plus Syracuse isn't on any most beautiful city lists. This generation is different than the one most of us I am guessing grew up part of. If you're that good and trying to decide between SU and the other ACC's and/or the Ivy's (academics) - SU has an uphill battle on the recruiting front. Add in the B1G and other top tier programs. Historical relevance is becoming a harder sell.

Plus from that list above how many FF's do Shay, Alberici and Tambroni have? Add in Marr for an Albany comparison and those 4 combined have zero unless I am missing 1. Desko deserves criticism but the grass isn't always greener. UVA brought in Tiffany and has mutliple #1 recruits and good classes and barely getting into the ACC tournament.

The weather is tough, no doubt. I cringe daily at the fact that it is still 20 and snowing in April. Definitely doesn't help keep current students, nor recruit new ones. But, I do believe upstate NY has some very beautiful places, and I do think there is an unwarranted apathy for the area by locals that creates a more than needed negative vibe. Syracuse ain't LA, no question, but what do we gain by saying it stinks and who would want to come here? You're entitled to your opinion, and I respect it, but, I choose to believe that Syracuse has a lot to offer a potential recruit. We have gotten kids to come to the school from areas most would say are more desirable, so there is definitely something of value here. Maybe its simply the Dome as you said, but I hope that it's more. That said, given the news of the last week on campus, this may be a tough time to fight this battle from my side.

 

[CHSLAX]

The weather is tough, no doubt. I cringe daily at the fact that it is still 20 and snowing in April. Definitely doesn't help keep current students, nor recruit new ones. But, I do believe upstate NY has some very beautiful places, and I do think there is an unwarranted apathy for the area by locals that creates a more than needed negative vibe. Syracuse ain't LA, no question, but what do we gain by saying it stinks and who would want to come here? You're entitled to your opinion, and I respect it, but, I choose to believe that Syracuse has a lot to offer a potential recruit. We have gotten kids to come to the school from areas most would say are more desirable, so there is definitely something of value here. Maybe its simply the Dome as you said, but I hope that it's more. That said, given the news of the last week on campus, this may be a tough time to fight this battle from my side.

Don't disagree but you may be missing my point. SU has a ton to offer. I loved it there and love where I live now but the point is that if you are a top tier player and have a comparable offer from SU, Duke, UNC, UVA, Maryland, Loyola, Hop etc, SU has a tough sell. Even if you just looked at CNY - if you could choose between Cornell and SU would you give up on an Ivy education? difficult questions for a recruit. Things have changed in the lax recruiting landscape since our last FF.

The thread is about changing coaches and my point is that although i am not happy with the current state of affairs I don't see a ton of upside to a change as it guarantees nothing and the alternatives that have been mentioned don't show me that they will produce a different result.

 

[Zack80]

Our winning the championship in 2011 complicated the process in deciding whether to replace Starsia. The AD’s reluctance to fire coaches, even with poor performance, made it worse.

I don't know that this statement holds water.
2012 UVa was 12-4 losing in the qfs.
2013 UVa was 7-8, but no reason to get rid of Starsia over one such season.
2014 UVa bounced back to 10-6, made the NCAA tmt, no reason to remove Starsia
2015 UVa was 10-5, no reason to fire Starsia
2016 UVa was 7-8, fired Starsia

 

[newmexicuse]

We were able to win titles when there were only a handful of elite programs. Now there is parity, plus the game is changing. In the halcyon days we had the best athletes and we could simply run and gun and overwhelm almost anybody else. Now, with parity, the game is slowed down. There is less scoring, less margin for error, longer possessions.

So much of the game now hinges on having a high FO percentage and a hot goaltender. Anybody in the top 20 is a legitimate threat to beat anybody else in the top 20, particularly if their FO guys and goalies get hot.

Add in the fact, that we have lacked superstars over the last few seasons. The parity is not only on a program basis, but also on a player basis. There are just no sure things in terms of getting superstars. Look at Jordan Evans, he ended up being a nice player, but far below what was hoped for. This team lacks a superstar. So have most of our recent teams.

The days of being a FF fixture every season are over. they will not return. If we can get to a FF every couple of years and win one or two titles per decade, that would be a major accomplishment.

In terms of Desko, it is simply crazy to be a delusional fan who things it is the Coach's fault that we are no longer winning titles every other season. We seem to be recruiting reasonably well now. We win an unreal percentage of one goal games. We survive wo the superstar. Maybe we can get Staats & he will be the superstar we need, but even if that is the case, though we will be a stronger team overall, there will be games when the FO percentage is low & their goalie is hotter than our goalie and we will lose. There is just no getting around reality.

It is like in hoops, if you remember in the early days, Jimmy seemed to go 26 - 4 almost every year. Anybody here think that is still a realistic expectation ? If we accept that hoops has changed, why do some her not accept that LAX has evolved as well.

I support Desko, and I do not see how we will suddenly become so much improved with a new coach, but i can easily see a rapid descent to mediocrity with the wrong choice if he was to be replaced.

 

[Hoo's That]

I don't know that this statement holds water.
2012 UVa was 12-4 losing in the qfs.
2013 UVa was 7-8, but no reason to get rid of Starsia over one such season.
2014 UVa bounced back to 10-6, made the NCAA tmt, no reason to remove Starsia
2015 UVa was 10-5, no reason to fire Starsia
2016 UVa was 7-8, fired Starsia

And over the same time period, 3-16 in the ACC regular season and 0-fer against dook. That added to it.

 

[JeremyCuse]

We were able to win titles when there were only a handful of elite programs. Now there is parity, plus the game is changing. In the halcyon days we had the best athletes and we could simply run and gun and overwhelm almost anybody else. Now, with parity, the game is slowed down. There is less scoring, less margin for error, longer possessions.

So much of the game now hinges on having a high FO percentage and a hot goaltender. Anybody in the top 20 is a legitimate threat to beat anybody else in the top 20, particularly if their FO guys and goalies get hot.

Add in the fact, that we have lacked superstars over the last few seasons. The parity is not only on a program basis, but also on a player basis. There are just no sure things in terms of getting superstars. Look at Jordan Evans, he ended up being a nice player, but far below what was hoped for. This team lacks a superstar. So have most of our recent teams.

The days of being a FF fixture every season are over. they will not return. If we can get to a FF every couple of years and win one or two titles per decade, that would be a major accomplishment.

In terms of Desko, it is simply crazy to be a delusional fan who things it is the Coach's fault that we are no longer winning titles every other season. We seem to be recruiting reasonably well now. We win an unreal percentage of one goal games. We survive wo the superstar. Maybe we can get Staats & he will be the superstar we need, but even if that is the case, though we will be a stronger team overall, there will be games when the FO percentage is low & their goalie is hotter than our goalie and we will lose. There is just no getting around reality.

It is like in hoops, if you remember in the early days, Jimmy seemed to go 26 - 4 almost every year. Anybody here think that is still a realistic expectation ? If we accept that hoops has changed, why do some her not accept that LAX has evolved as well.

I support Desko, and I do not see how we will suddenly become so much improved with a new coach, but i can easily see a rapid descent to mediocrity with the wrong choice if he was to be replaced.

You make some good points, the dynamics of the sport have certainly changed from the Mikey Powell era and even from the 08 and 09 back to back title years. That said I don' think you can blame our issues fully on parity or the game changing. The game had already changed in 08 and 09 when SU won titles, even then we weren't really playing that fast break Gait/Powell type of lacrosse that really died when Mike graduated in 04.

The issues the program has had go back to recruiting and failure in the NCAA tourney. The latter part has been much more noticeable since our last title in 09 and really runs counter to the success Dekso had previously. The 2013 team while a great run kind of masked the issues SU has had since 09. Two massive first round upsets, a dusting from Duke in the 1st round on a team that probably didn't belong in the tourney, a dusting from Maryland in the quarters, and another 3-4 disappointing losses in the quarters including one to a mediocre JHU team who we should have beat. I am not a fire Desko guy and save for this year (sorta) SU has continued to put together quality regular seasons, an 8-0 record the last two years is phenomenal. That said Syracuse and Dekso are judged on post-season success which has been few and far between outside of the ACC tourney. I am standing by Desk for now and I feel the next couple of years have the chance to be special, however, I think the adminstration has to be ready to pull the trigger if there is little to show for the next 3 seasons and the program continues to slowly slip. The last think you want is for this program to turn into Princeton or even struggle the way Hopkins has the last 5+ years. If were going to consider SU lacrosse as being on the same level of Kentucky bball and Alabama fball we all have to demand a high level of success (within reason).

 

[Zack80]

And over the same time period, 3-16 in the ACC regular season and 0-fer against dook. That added to it.

Duke did win the NCAA title in 2013 and 2014. Overall the ACC was very strong through the period from 2012-2016. If UVa had a team that was 7-8 level, then they probably wouldn't win an ACC game - which is what happened.
2015 was sort of a strange season, UVa was actually fairly good with a #8 RPI, beat Cornell, Hopkins and Georgetown all top 20 RPIs, but didn't win in the ACC. Of course, the other four ACC teams: Duke, ND, Syracuse and North Carolina were all in the top 5 RPI's that season.
There was some thought that the Huguely affair was affecting recruiting, and also the early recruiting might have been hurting. I think UVa's current senior class seemed to be especially hit by ER. Recruiting seemed to be picking up with Conrad, Aiken, Kraus and Moore.

Of course, recruiting classes can go south for other reasons. UMd's class a few years back had two highly touted recruits as high school seniors, Zappala and Monahan. Zappala decides to give up lacrosse and Monahan doesn't pan out at UMd ( and is now starting at Towson). So next year, UMd's offense will not have much senior leadership, and perhaps UMd is a player short of offense this season.

 

[Purple Haze]

You make some good points, the dynamics of the sport have certainly changed from the Mikey Powell era and even from the 08 and 09 back to back title years. That said I don' think you can blame our issues fully on parity or the game changing. The game had already changed in 08 and 09 when SU won titles, even then we weren't really playing that fast break Gait/Powell type of lacrosse that really died when Mike graduated in 04.

The issues the program has had go back to recruiting and failure in the NCAA tourney. The latter part has been much more noticeable since our last title in 09 and really runs counter to the success Dekso had previously. The 2013 team while a great run kind of masked the issues SU has had since 09. Two massive first round upsets, a dusting from Duke in the 1st round on a team that probably didn't belong in the tourney, a dusting from Maryland in the quarters, and another 3-4 disappointing losses in the quarters including one to a mediocre JHU team who we should have beat. I am not a fire Desko guy and save for this year (sorta) SU has continued to put together quality regular seasons, an 8-0 record the last two years is phenomenal. That said Syracuse and Dekso are judged on post-season success which has been few and far between outside of the ACC tourney. I am standing by Desk for now and I feel the next couple of years have the chance to be special, however, I think the adminstration has to be ready to pull the trigger if there is little to show for the next 3 seasons and the program continues to slowly slip. The last think you want is for this program to turn into Princeton or even struggle the way Hopkins has the last 5+ years. If were going to consider SU lacrosse as being on the same level of Kentucky bball and Alabama fball we all have to demand a high level of success (within reason).

While the game has changed a bit, isn't that always the case? Wood sticks give way to plastic heads. Shafts went from wood to aluminum to titanium to composite. The design of the head continues to evolve. Speed of play rules - face off rule changes - training changes - shot clocks... But with all these changes, everyone competes on a level playing field.

But I think the things that may shift the balance of power are the changes that happen off the field. The ban on early recruiting will hurt some and help others (I think it ultimately helps schools like Syracuse). I'll also be interested to see if these new transfer rules go into effect:

DI Committee on Academics considers transfer rule changes

I'm all for making it easier for kids to transfer, but like everything there will be winners and losers.

Also, like you Jeremy - I'm not in the fire Desko camp. As odd as it sounds, I thought last year was one of his finest coaching jobs. That being said, I would not be opposed to him shaking up the staff and bringing in a potential heir apparent (because Leland on Donahue aren't the answer).

 

[Cuse9292]

I don't know if it's the same for college hockey and college lacrosse but I'm going to compare them anyway and just ask a question. I'm a huge Clarkson hockey fan and we recently brought in an assistant that's really changing the culture of our once glorious program. He's done this by evaluating at an extremely high level and recruiting at a level that's been missing for awhile at Clarkson, he's getting kids to come to upstate NY and quite honestly it has absolutely nothing to do with our HC. Could the same principles apply for Syracuse Lacrosse? Maybe by adding some youth to the staff so they can relate to the players a bit more or something like that?

 

[tbonezone]

i for one applaud the tough schedule (again). even if we somehow miss the tourney we got to face and measure up against the top ten. fun to watch.

 

[illestcuse]

Will Gary wait it out a couple more years to see if the men’s job opens up?

good god, the man cant even win a national championship with the girls team in his now 11th year of coaching. he has had all the pieces he has needed to succeed and win a national championship, yet his and regys terrible defense year after year has led to absolutely nothing besides winning a couple conference tournaments and getting to the national title game a couple of times, only to lose. his program his in absolute shambles right now. they cant pass/catch the ball (simple fundamentals taught at youth level), dont even get me started on the defense and the amount of goals they let in per game. they only won ONE conference game this season and just lost to UNC in the ACCT 21-12 in the first round, and most likely not be getting into the NCAA tournament. both gait and regy were great players of the game, but they just aren't very good coaches. all of this talking about about firing desko, I think wildhack needs to evaluate firing both gait and thorpe! (sorry, end of rant) this has been bothering me the past two years now lol

 

[CousCuse]

I don't know if it's the same for college hockey and college lacrosse but I'm going to compare them anyway and just ask a question. I'm a huge Clarkson hockey fan and we recently brought in an assistant that's really changing the culture of our once glorious program. He's done this by evaluating at an extremely high level and recruiting at a level that's been missing for awhile at Clarkson, he's getting kids to come to upstate NY and quite honestly it has absolutely nothing to do with our HC. Could the same principles apply for Syracuse Lacrosse? Maybe by adding some youth to the staff so they can relate to the players a bit more or something like that?

Absolutely. A bright, young, talented and hungry guy will run circles around an old, satisfied guy living on past accomplishments.