Notre Dame vs The World | Page 18 | Syracusefan.com

Notre Dame vs The World

Chip said:
He mentioned also how ND has scheduled a Clemson series outside of the ACC arrangement, and thinks they should do the same with Miami and Florida State.
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And those would or would not count against the five ACC games they’ve agreed to? Seems the league as a whole would/should have a say there.
 
Willy75 said:
And those would or would not count against the five ACC games they’ve agreed to? Seems the league as a whole would/should have a say there.
Expand...
It's not clear how closely Clemson worked with the ACC in setting up their 12-game home-and-home with ND. Maybe the two schools totally left the league out of the loop when making this scheduling arrangement.
 
HRE Otto IV said:
Cliff notes?

IMO Notre Dame will try to keep whatever is left of the ACC together for as long as possible. I think they rather do business with Pitt, SU, BC, Stanford, Cal, SMU, Wake, and whatever else is left. That is still the best fit if ND wants to stay a FB Indy.
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Cliff notes of this The Athletic article:

"Where Notre Dame's ACC, ESPN and opt-out angst stands one week after CFP selection day"

www.nytimes.com

Where Notre Dame’s ACC, ESPN and opt-out angst stands one week after CFP selection day

Irish fans have questions about how Notre Dame got here and how they can avoid a replay of this brutal end to a season.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

The Lead: "You're not over it. And that's totally fine."

ND Mailbag

#1 How is it appropriate for the head of the committee to direct members to re-watch the ND-Miami game?

Response: the final spot came down to ND & Miami. Miami won that game. The problem was stringing ND out for 5 weeks only to flip-flop the 2 teams in the final rankings. It was ridiculous and cruel. Not that it was wrong. But ND deserved to know earlier. If they had, they'd "probably be playing in a bowl game."

#2 What's the future for ND and the ACC?

Response: ND and the ACC no longer feels like a good marriage. It isn't all bad. ND benefits from the inventory of games. But access to minor bowl bids no longer is a sweetener. The ACC hasn't figured out how to have more ND games the top ACC teams. The ACC and ND were growing apart before this. It's hard to see them sticking together in the long run. It feels like there will be a divorce. The question is when and how much does it cost.

#3 How much influence did ESPN have on the decision to leave ND out?

Response: No way to know. But ESPN would have benefitted by having ND in the CFP.

#4 Who decided that ND wouldn't play in a bowl game? Did the players vote?

Response: There was no player vote. The captains were consulted and the position coaches consulted their players. Some said no. Some said yes. And some said we're for whatever the whole team wants. In the end the decision was made by Marcus Freeman. But note the AD said: "the team didn't want to put out a product that didn't respresent the program". Given all of the opt outs that would have happened it would have been "a knock-off of Notre Dame football". [In other words, they didn't want to get beat by BYU.]
 
FloridaCuse said:
Cliff notes of this The Athletic article:

"Where Notre Dame's ACC, ESPN and opt-out angst stands one week after CFP selection day"

www.nytimes.com

Where Notre Dame’s ACC, ESPN and opt-out angst stands one week after CFP selection day

Irish fans have questions about how Notre Dame got here and how they can avoid a replay of this brutal end to a season.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

The Lead: "You're not over it. And that's totally fine."

ND Mailbag

#1 How is it appropriate for the head of the committee to direct members to re-watch the ND-Miami game?

Response: the final spot came down to ND & Miami. Miami won that game. The problem was stringing ND out for 5 weeks only to flip-flop the 2 teams in the final rankings. It was ridiculous and cruel. Not that it was wrong. But ND deserved to know earlier. If they had, they'd "probably be playing in a bowl game."

#2 What's the future for ND and the ACC?

Response: ND and the ACC no longer feels like a good marriage. It isn't all bad. ND benefits from the inventory of games. But access to minor bowl bids no longer is a sweetener. The ACC hasn't figured out how to have more ND games the top ACC teams. The ACC and ND were growing apart before this. It's hard to see them sticking together in the long run. It feels like there will be a divorce. The question is when and how much does it cost.

#3 How much influence did ESPN have on the decision to leave ND out?

Response: No way to know. But ESPN would have benefitted by having ND in the CFP.

#4 Who decided that ND wouldn't play in a bowl game? Did the players vote?

Response: There was no player vote. The captains were consulted and the position coaches consulted their players. Some said no. Some said yes. And some said we're for whatever the whole team wants. In the end the decision was made by Marcus Freeman. But note the AD said: "the team didn't want to put out a product that didn't respresent the program". Given all of the opt outs that would have happened it would have been "a knock-off of Notre Dame football". [In other words, they didn't want to get beat by BYU.]
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Thanks, pretty much what this site said.

ND can do what it wants, everyone knows this. ND is likely to hold out until the end of the present agreement or close to it. Contractually, they cannot join football to a new conference because they agreed to limit their conference option to the ACC during this contract. If that is ND's end game, so be it. If ND is merely letting off steam, so be it. It is unlikely that a move of the Olympic sports to another conference is worth the costs. Unless they have an offer they cannot refuse, they likely stay with the ACC a few more years. Besides, if ND is really flirting with the B1G or SEC, the ACC is likely to screw around with the scheduling, why should the ACC treat ND any different than ND treats the ACC?
 
Willy75 said:
And those would or would not count against the five ACC games they’ve agreed to? Seems the league as a whole would/should have a say there.
Expand...

I gathered from another article I read that they used a few of the existing ACC matchups and then filled in the gaps to make it a 12 game series.
 
HtownOrange said:
Thanks, pretty much what this site said.

ND can do what it wants, everyone knows this. ND is likely to hold out until the end of the present agreement or close to it. Contractually, they cannot join football to a new conference because they agreed to limit their conference option to the ACC during this contract. If that is ND's end game, so be it. If ND is merely letting off steam, so be it. It is unlikely that a move of the Olympic sports to another conference is worth the costs. Unless they have an offer they cannot refuse, they likely stay with the ACC a few more years. Besides, if ND is really flirting with the B1G or SEC, the ACC is likely to screw around with the scheduling, why should the ACC treat ND any different than ND treats the ACC?
Expand...

Notre Dame still has a minor problem. The want football to stay independent - that means 0.0% chance they can shift their other sports to the Big Ten or SEC. Their options are:
1) Join either the Big Ten or SEC for everything, including football
2) See if the Big 12 will agree to the same set-up as the ACC has, with football outside the conference (unlikely the Big 12 would agree)
3) Go independent with every sport again - doesn't really work in this era, would fail quickly if they tried it...doubt this would make it out of very initial discussions at Notre Dame
4) Suck it up and deal with the ACC arrangement.

Either Notre Dame is completely lying about not allowing football to join a conference and they'll jump to the Big Ten at the end of the ACC contract...or this is all a pointless tantrum because being in the ACC for all sports except football is still their best option. What's getting them upset is the ACC seems to know this and isn't taking the tantrum seriously. Too friggin bad.
 
Cusefan95 said:
Notre Dame still has a minor problem. The want football to stay independent - that means 0.0% chance they can shift their other sports to the Big Ten or SEC. Their options are:
1) Join either the Big Ten or SEC for everything, including football
2) See if the Big 12 will agree to the same set-up as the ACC has, with football outside the conference (unlikely the Big 12 would agree)
3) Go independent with every sport again - doesn't really work in this era, would fail quickly if they tried it...doubt this would make it out of very initial discussions at Notre Dame
4) Suck it up and deal with the ACC arrangement.

Either Notre Dame is completely lying about not allowing football to join a conference and they'll jump to the Big Ten at the end of the ACC contract...or this is all a pointless tantrum because being in the ACC for all sports except football is still their best option. What's getting them upset is the ACC seems to know this and isn't taking the tantrum seriously. Too friggin bad.
Expand...

Completely agree. This is ND being a spoiled brat and wanting everything to be there way or they are going home. Go home and take ALL your sports with you as far as I'm concerned.

I suspect nothing is oging to change, and that ND realizes that they have no other legit options that keeps football independent, except maybe the Big 12. I would not renew this deal if I was the ACC. Keep it until it expires, and then it's all in or all out ultimatum.
 
Cusefan95 said:
Notre Dame still has a minor problem. The want football to stay independent - that means 0.0% chance they can shift their other sports to the Big Ten or SEC. Their options are:
1) Join either the Big Ten or SEC for everything, including football
2) See if the Big 12 will agree to the same set-up as the ACC has, with football outside the conference (unlikely the Big 12 would agree)
3) Go independent with every sport again - doesn't really work in this era, would fail quickly if they tried it...doubt this would make it out of very initial discussions at Notre Dame
4) Suck it up and deal with the ACC arrangement.

Either Notre Dame is completely lying about not allowing football to join a conference and they'll jump to the Big Ten at the end of the ACC contract...or this is all a pointless tantrum because being in the ACC for all sports except football is still their best option. What's getting them upset is the ACC seems to know this and isn't taking the tantrum seriously. Too friggin bad.
Expand...
There is a fifth option, pull the Olympic sports out of the ACC and go back to the Big East, keeping the football independent.

I rank their likelihood to exercise the options in this order: 4, 5, 1, 2, 3.

I suspect that ND is merely reminding everyone on that they have the "power" and setting the table so they can exercise any option they want when they want. I think you sum it up well:

"...this is all a pointless tantrum because being in the ACC for all sports except football is still their best option. What's getting them upset is the ACC seems to know this and isn't taking the tantrum seriously. Too friggin bad."
 
HtownOrange said:
There is a fifth option, pull the Olympic sports out of the ACC and go back to the Big East, keeping the football independent.

I rank their likelihood to exercise the options in this order: 4, 5, 1, 2, 3.

I suspect that ND is merely reminding everyone on that they have the "power" and setting the table so they can exercise any option they want when they want. I think you sum it up well:

"...this is all a pointless tantrum because being in the ACC for all sports except football is still their best option. What's getting them upset is the ACC seems to know this and isn't taking the tantrum seriously. Too friggin bad."
Expand...
The Big East was happy to take UConn back so maybe they would make a play for ND olympic sports
 
HtownOrange said:
There is a fifth option, pull the Olympic sports out of the ACC and go back to the Big East, keeping the football independent.

I rank their likelihood to exercise the options in this order: 4, 5, 1, 2, 3.

I suspect that ND is merely reminding everyone on that they have the "power" and setting the table so they can exercise any option they want when they want. I think you sum it up well:

"...this is all a pointless tantrum because being in the ACC for all sports except football is still their best option. What's getting them upset is the ACC seems to know this and isn't taking the tantrum seriously. Too friggin bad."
Expand...

Good point, I forgot about the Big East. The biggest issue with going back to the Big East is football scheduling. One of the advantages to Notre Dame of the arrangement with the ACC is half their games are set each year, so they don't need to scramble to find 12 opponents every year. They are trying to spin that as a huge value that they bring to the ACC (which does admittedly have value) - but its not irreplaceable value since school could be pushed to schedule more P4 games to replace ND games and Notre Dame is conveniently ignoring the value that deal brings to them.

Conceivably they could join the Big East and set up a scheduling arrangement with another conference - but by definition Notre Dame would be negotiating from a position of weakness. And I doubt any conference would want to throw them a lifeline when the desire would be to have Notre Dame join for everything. Notre Dame burned the Big East, is currently threatening to torch their deal with the ACC...I think the idea the incremental approach will succeed in getting Notre Dame to join a conference dies if/when they leave the ACC. Everyone is going to take an "its all or nothing, baby" approach to negotiating with Notre Dame from that point.

I think you're correct in your ordering - but rejoining the Big East is so far behind staying with the ACC that Jim Phillips would need a telescope to see it. And everything else is equally far from rejoining the Big East. At some point the ACC will pat Notre Dame on their heads, give them binkys (in the form of some minor scheduling adjustment most likely)...and we'll all move along.
 
Cusefan95 said:
Good point, I forgot about the Big East. The biggest issue with going back to the Big East is football scheduling. One of the advantages to Notre Dame of the arrangement with the ACC is half their games are set each year, so they don't need to scramble to find 12 opponents every year. They are trying to spin that as a huge value that they bring to the ACC (which does admittedly have value) - but its not irreplaceable value since school could be pushed to schedule more P4 games to replace ND games and Notre Dame is conveniently ignoring the value that deal brings to them.

Conceivably they could join the Big East and set up a scheduling arrangement with another conference - but by definition Notre Dame would be negotiating from a position of weakness. And I doubt any conference would want to throw them a lifeline when the desire would be to have Notre Dame join for everything. Notre Dame burned the Big East, is currently threatening to torch their deal with the ACC...I think the idea the incremental approach will succeed in getting Notre Dame to join a conference dies if/when they leave the ACC. Everyone is going to take an "its all or nothing, baby" approach to negotiating with Notre Dame from that point.

I think you're correct in your ordering - but rejoining the Big East is so far behind staying with the ACC that Jim Phillips would need a telescope to see it. And everything else is equally far from rejoining the Big East. At some point the ACC will pat Notre Dame on their heads, give them binkys (in the form of some minor scheduling adjustment most likely)...and we'll all move along.
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Already heading toward some type of arrangement with the SEC. Bama, Florida, Arkansas, Texas and Auburn on the schedule over the next five years. Joining the BE would be on par with staying with the ACC. Similar basketball leagues, probably a greater chance the BE exists in five years than the ACC.
 
bpo57 said:
Already heading toward some type of arrangement with the SEC. Bama, Florida, Arkansas, Texas and Auburn on the schedule over the next five years. Joining the BE would be on par with staying with the ACC. Similar basketball leagues, probably a greater chance the BE exists in five years than the ACC.
Expand...
People say that, but I doubt it. Assume FSU and Clemson went SEC and ND/UNC went B1G. And even assume the SEC takes Georgia Tech and Louisville... that still leaves:

SMU
Stanford
Cal
Duke
Syracuse
Pitt
BC
NC State
Wake Forest
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Miami

Are you telling me that this is SO much worse than the B12, with Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, etc., that ESPN cannot keep this conference on par with the B12 payout wise? Who is staying up to watch Iowa State-Utah, no matter what the record?

And then add Tulane, UConn, USF, and North Texas to get to 16. Florida: Miami/USF. California: Standford/Cal. Texas: SMU/North Texas. Southern private: Wake Forest/Tulane. NC: NC State/Duke. Virginia: UVa/Va Tech. NE: UConn/BC. Rust belt: Pitt/Syracuse.

Maybe we would be a perpetual 1-bid league. But we would keep the bid.
 
Cusefan95 said:
Good point, I forgot about the Big East. The biggest issue with going back to the Big East is football scheduling. One of the advantages to Notre Dame of the arrangement with the ACC is half their games are set each year, so they don't need to scramble to find 12 opponents every year. They are trying to spin that as a huge value that they bring to the ACC (which does admittedly have value) - but its not irreplaceable value since school could be pushed to schedule more P4 games to replace ND games and Notre Dame is conveniently ignoring the value that deal brings to them.

Conceivably they could join the Big East and set up a scheduling arrangement with another conference - but by definition Notre Dame would be negotiating from a position of weakness. And I doubt any conference would want to throw them a lifeline when the desire would be to have Notre Dame join for everything. Notre Dame burned the Big East, is currently threatening to torch their deal with the ACC...I think the idea the incremental approach will succeed in getting Notre Dame to join a conference dies if/when they leave the ACC. Everyone is going to take an "its all or nothing, baby" approach to negotiating with Notre Dame from that point.

I think you're correct in your ordering - but rejoining the Big East is so far behind staying with the ACC that Jim Phillips would need a telescope to see it. And everything else is equally far from rejoining the Big East. At some point the ACC will pat Notre Dame on their heads, give them binkys (in the form of some minor scheduling adjustment most likely)...and we'll all move along.
Expand...
Good points. I agree with your Big East comment.

I think that over time, this blows over. The ACC is the best ND can hope for without joining their football to a conference. Even the agreement to join the ACC in football if they join, is better than the B1G and SEC as the ACC covers more of ND's objectives than either the B1g or SEC. The Big 12 is not really an option for ND's football.
 
Archbold44 said:
People say that, but I doubt it. Assume FSU and Clemson went SEC and ND/UNC went B1G. And even assume the SEC takes Georgia Tech and Louisville... that still leaves:

SMU
Stanford
Cal
Duke
Syracuse
Pitt
BC
NC State
Wake Forest
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Miami

Are you telling me that this is SO much worse than the B12, with Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, etc., that ESPN cannot keep this conference on par with the B12 payout wise? Who is staying up to watch Iowa State-Utah, no matter what the record?

And then add Tulane, UConn, USF, and North Texas to get to 16. Florida: Miami/USF. California: Standford/Cal. Texas: SMU/North Texas. Southern private: Wake Forest/Tulane. NC: NC State/Duke. Virginia: UVa/Va Tech. NE: UConn/BC. Rust belt: Pitt/Syracuse.

Maybe we would be a perpetual 1-bid league. But we would keep the bid.
Expand...
What you have left over doesn't look like a particularly strong football or basketball league.
 
bpo57 said:
What you have left over doesn't look like a particularly strong football or basketball league.
Expand...
How is the B12 better? The also-rans of the Big 8, SWC, PAC-12, MWC, Big East, and American?
 
Archbold44 said:
People say that, but I doubt it. Assume FSU and Clemson went SEC and ND/UNC went B1G. And even assume the SEC takes Georgia Tech and Louisville... that still leaves:

SMU
Stanford
Cal
Duke
Syracuse
Pitt
BC
NC State
Wake Forest
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Miami

Are you telling me that this is SO much worse than the B12, with Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, etc., that ESPN cannot keep this conference on par with the B12 payout wise? Who is staying up to watch Iowa State-Utah, no matter what the record?

And then add Tulane, UConn, USF, and North Texas to get to 16. Florida: Miami/USF. California: Standford/Cal. Texas: SMU/North Texas. Southern private: Wake Forest/Tulane. NC: NC State/Duke. Virginia: UVa/Va Tech. NE: UConn/BC. Rust belt: Pitt/Syracuse.

Maybe we would be a perpetual 1-bid league. But we would keep the bid.
Expand...
I doubt very seriously a 'leftover' ACC would have all those schools. Neither the SEC nor BT act that pint will want to leave behind the possibility of new TV viewers or potentially top programs.

The state of VA is massive important, and UVA is AAU. Anybody who thinks UNC would go anywwhrer without UVA is out of the loop. The SEC may not want to have total control of VA, but if the BT takes UVA, the SEC will then take VT as a blocking move. Likewise, if the BT takes UNC, the SEC will take NCSU.

The SEC has no need of GT, but AAU GT has perfect location for BT football getting into the South. And AAU Miami clearly could add a good deal to BT football.

If the ACC loses those schools, the Big 12, pushed by WVU and Cincy, will focus first on getting Pitt.
 
bpo57 said:
Already heading toward some type of arrangement with the SEC. Bama, Florida, Arkansas, Texas and Auburn on the schedule over the next five years. Joining the BE would be on par with staying with the ACC. Similar basketball leagues, probably a greater chance the BE exists in five years than the ACC.
Expand...

This is pretty far fetched. The ACC and SEC are already playing a ton of games cross conference. Over the next 5 years ND is playing like 1 game a year against the SEC. They play the same amount against other conferences.
 
WoadBlue said:
I doubt very seriously a 'leftover' ACC would have all those schools. Neither the SEC nor BT act that pint will want to leave behind the possibility of new TV viewers or potentially top programs.

The state of VA is massive important, and UVA is AAU. Anybody who thinks UNC would go anywwhrer without UVA is out of the loop. The SEC may not want to have total control of VA, but if the BT takes UVA, the SEC will then take VT as a blocking move. Likewise, if the BT takes UNC, the SEC will take NCSU.

The SEC has no need of GT, but AAU GT has perfect location for BT football getting into the South. And AAU Miami clearly could add a good deal to BT football.

If the ACC loses those schools, the Big 12, pushed by WVU and Cincy, will focus first on getting Pitt.
Expand...

GT is still Atlanta market. UGA enjoys the "road games" at Bobby Dodd where the crowd is 70% red, no reason the rest of the SEC wouldn't as well. Br curious how many B1G teams would travel there after the novelty wore off but I'm sure the major ones would also take over. Flights to ATL are cake... traffic to games not so much.
 
qdawgg said:
This is pretty far fetched. The ACC and SEC are already playing a ton of games cross conference. Over the next 5 years ND is playing like 1 game a year against the SEC. They play the same amount against other conferences.
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If ND and the ACC parted ways I think ND would not have much difficulty finding replacements while at the same time beefing up the quality of their schedule.
 
ImperialOrange said:
GT is still Atlanta market. UGA enjoys the "road games" at Bobby Dodd where the crowd is 70% red, no reason the rest of the SEC wouldn't as well. Br curious how many B1G teams would travel there after the novelty wore off but I'm sure the major ones would also take over. Flights to ATL are cake... traffic to games not so much.
Expand...
B1G already flies across the country now.
 
ImperialOrange said:
GT is still Atlanta market. UGA enjoys the "road games" at Bobby Dodd where the crowd is 70% red, no reason the rest of the SEC wouldn't as well. Br curious how many B1G teams would travel there after the novelty wore off but I'm sure the major ones would also take over. Flights to ATL are cake... traffic to games not so much.
Expand...
You think the novelty of traveling to a city/TV market is what makes it worth having? Not even close. What the BT needs in any expansion now is being located in states and TV markets that produce massive amounts of talent. Atlanta/GA and Miami/FL are that to a perfect T. VA and NC are that far more than the clear majority of current BT states.

If the BT hopes to ever mach the quality of SEC depth in football, the BT MUST get planted in the South with enough schools to matter. So if the end game is a new Top Tier of just BT and SEC, then the BT must get as deep and wide in the South as possible. If it failed at that the SEC would always dominate in football.
 

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