Notre Dame...

[nd1973]

Well as an ND fan myself I always hated losing to Michigan early in the year. ND only played for National Championships and even if Michigan lost they still had the rest of the season to play for a Big 10 title. We may get to see what happens next year if the Irish have the year we hope and get left out at 11-1. Independence is a big thing at ND but maybe you are right.

Independence is huge obviously but Swarbrick has stated that if circumstances change then they would reevaluate. Heck how independent are we really?

I like independence but not at the expense of everything else. I don't think it's likely to happen anytime soon .

 

[longtimefan]

They can petition all they want, the committee decides who is in and who is out.

That's not the way Bowlsby and Swofford expect it to shake out.

As an aside, remember that the NCAA has no control over the 4-team D-I playoff.

 

[CuseOnly]

That's not the way Bowlsby and Swofford expect it to shake out.

As an aside, remember that the NCAA has no control over the 4-team D-I playoff.

The NCAA still decides who can have a CCG and it isn't changing anytime soon. Maybe autonomy could change it but I doubt it seeing as how all the other conferences already have one. Do you think the other 4 conferences will just go.."...sure Big 12, you don't need a CCG, we all have one but all the power to ya!" Doubt it.

Bowlsby has already been proven to be a dolt...2 good deserving teams both sitting at home watching, good job!

It's great the NCAA has no control over the 4 team playoff, those clowns could screw up just about anything.

 

[sabach]

Independence is huge obviously but Swarbrick has stated that if circumstances change then they would reevaluate. Heck how independent are we really?

I like independence but not at the expense of everything else. I don't think it's likely to happen anytime soon .

I took Swarbrick ' s comments to mean that ND would join a conference if that was the only way they could get into a playoff. Therefore if a conference championship win is a prerequisite to a playoff berth then ND would so act. However so long as ND had access to the playoff and still could be independent then they would remain that way. If ND joins a conference and they keep Navy and USC/Stanford for the annual Cali Thanksgiving weekend game, that only leaves one other OOC game to be able to schedule each year.

 

[SU2NASA]

Consider this, to make the playoff ND would have to leave out TWO Power 5 conference champions.

 

[bpo57]

NBC doesn't pay them that much. If the Irish decided to join a conference that conference and ESPN would make the money work for ND.

ND likes NBC because of the known time and exposure they get from them. If they signed with ESPN some games would be on ABC and some would be on ESPN. The Irish like the consistency of NBC.

NBC just signed a new deal a year ago that pays ND $15 million annually. Please tell me some programs that are getting paid more than $15 mil per annum.

 

[bpo57]

The NBC dollars are less than schools like Purdue and Illinois make from just being part of the collective. ND is not independent because of NBC money being so much, rather, NBC is the means/vehicle to the ultimate end: Independence, by and for itself.

Independence for ND allows for them to play seven games not dictated by a conference, including games in California and series with Texas, Georgia, Ohio State, etc..

But more importantly, it is part of ND's identity. It sees itself as a national school, that plays and recruits nationally.

Conferences are regional by nature and limit that.

ND has never been in a football conference in the 127 years it has played football. Why give up that status?

ND has only had less than two losses once (2012) since 1993. Is the de facto "threat" of being "left out" of the playoffs really that important to jettison ND' s identity and unique status?

The playoffs are a very rare occurrence. Independence is all of the time.

You might want to re-check the math on that one. ND hauls in $15 mil annually from NBC for 7 home games. That doesn't include any TV money for the five other games they play on national tv. That rate would imply approx. $300 mil+ being paid out collectively to the 14 B1G teams. There is no way that is happening. B1G has a lucrative deal but it's not the NFL.

 

[bpo57]

Consider this, to make the playoff ND would have to leave out TWO Power 5 conference champions.

Depends who the conference champs were. What if they were TCU and Arizona? Who brings bigger crowds and more eyeballs? If ND is deserving on the merits then these guys will fall all over themselves to get them in the playoff.

 

[TerryD]

If ND went 11-1 this year (assuming the loss was to FSU) who were they going to beat out for a spot? IMO none of the 4 selected. They will be at huge disadvantage vs. conference champions. But I'm sure the leadership at ND is arrogant enough to believe they would be first choice...until it actually happens to them.

Is this really any different for ND than the BCS?

Would an 11-1 ND have been selected to play in the 2012 BCS title game, for instance?

I doubt it. I don't see this as much as an issue for ND as some others do.

 

[TerryD]

You might want to re-check the math on that one. ND hauls in $15 mil annually from NBC for 7 home games. That doesn't include any TV money for the five other games they play on national tv. That rate would imply approx. $300 mil+ being paid out collectively to the 14 B1G teams. There is no way that is happening. B1G has a lucrative deal but it's not the NFL.

Well, all of the stuff I have seen out of the Big Ten is that the with the BTN, all Big Ten schools make more than $20 million a year for TV. This is before the huge Big Ten contract increase in a couple of years.

How much will Big Ten schools make from the new contract? At any rate, the Big Ten schools that are not big draws such as Purdue, Illinois and Indiana make somewhere near $20 million a year by just being in the conference. Nice gig for some. ND doesn't want any part of the Big Ten.

ND is locked into the NBC contract for ten years from 2015-25. I have seen reports that it is $18 million a year for that period. The $15 million figure is from the 2010 contract renewal.

My point was that it is not a big monetary advantage for ND to be independent. It has other reasons (some not related to sports) for being one.

 

[Btstimpy]

Does Navy invest as much money into their Olympic sports programs as the other ACC schools do?

They have been investing in their facilities. They are in good shape. They would be on the low end of the ACC as far as budget, but they have a unique situation where they don't have to provide athletic scholarships because all of the athletes are federally funded as midshipmen. They finished 90 in the Director's Cup last year. Georgia Tech finished 89 and Pittsburgh 85. Here is an article about Navy athletics.

http://www.usna.com/document.doc?id=129

The only downside I see is men's basketball due to military height restrictions. They would have to run a team kind of like Princeton used to with a smaller line up and try to compete that way. But ACC basketball would be tough to do that in.

 

[bpo57]

Well, all of the stuff I have seen out of the Big Ten is that the with the BTN, all Big Ten schools make more than $20 million a year for TV. This is before the huge Big Ten contract increase in a couple of years.

How much will Big Ten schools make from the new contract? At any rate, the Big Ten schools that are not big draws such as Purdue, Illinois and Indiana make somewhere near $20 million a year by just being in the conference. Nice gig for some. ND doesn't want any part of the Big Ten.

ND is locked into the NBC contract for ten years from 2015-25. I have seen reports that it is $18 million a year for that period. The $15 million figure is from the 2010 contract renewal.

My point was that it is not a big monetary advantage for ND to be independent. It has other reasons (some not related to sports) for being one.

The $15 mil figure I got was from an ESPN article dated April 2013. If its $18 mil then makes the point even more. For 7 home games. Right now new B1G members are being phased in and are not getting much of that money. Plus the money you cite is for entire football AND basketball seasons. In any event ND would not be better off financially by going to the B1G.

 

[CuseOnly]

Depends who the conference champs were. What if they were TCU and Arizona? Who brings bigger crowds and more eyeballs? If ND is deserving on the merits then these guys will fall all over themselves to get them in the playoff.

LOL - What are you smoking...??

The Big 10 network and their TV contract is over 20 mil per team, the ACC contract is right around $20 mil per team each year. Where are you getting your numbers from?

Just an FYI, the NFL contract for primary rights is over $7 BILLION dollars per year with a "B", more than every TV contract for every conference each year combined x 10, that is the power of the NFL.

Let's just say:
B1G $25 mil per team = 350 mil
ACC $20 mil per team = 280 mil
SEC $25 mil per team = 350 mil
Big 12 $22 mil per team = 220 mil
Pac 12 $22 mil per team = $254 mil

The above is about what the NFC east alone brings in for TV money in the NFL PER year. Never mind what the rest of the league gets.

Numbers from 20111 below and you can guarantee they went up:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2011/12/14/the-nfl-signs-tv-deals-worth-26-billion/

 

[bpo57]

LOL - What are you smoking...??

The Big 10 network and their TV contract is over 20 mil per team, the ACC contract is right around $20 mil per team each year. Where are you getting your numbers from?

Just an FYI, the NFL contract for primary rights is over $7 BILLION dollars per year with a "B", more than every TV contract for every conference each year combined x 10, that is the power of the NFL.

Let's just say:
B1G $25 mil per team = 350 mil
ACC $20 mil per team = 280 mil
SEC $25 mil per team = 300 mil
Big 12 $22 mil per team = 220 mil
Pac 12 $22 mil per team = $254 mil

The above is about what the NFC east alone brings in for TV money in the NFL PER year. Never mind what the rest of the league gets.

Numbers from 20111 below and you can guarantee they went up:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2011/12/14/the-nfl-signs-tv-deals-worth-26-billion/

I am trying to do my best AFLAC duck imitation. Whaaa? The comment about the NFL was a joke. Lighten up Francis. Of course they have an obscene TV contract. Duh!

 

[Chris02M]

if ND agreed to become a full member you go to 3 divisions of 5 unless texas or wvu or another p5 team came to us to join. 2 highest ranked division champs play for championship

 

[CuseOnly]

I am trying to do my best AFLAC duck imitation. Whaaa? The comment about the NFL was a joke. Lighten up Francis. Of course they have an obscene TV contract. Duh!

You said that there was no way the 14 B1G teams were making 300 mil together, the number is actually higher than that per year. Sounded like you were pretty sure about that figure not being true and you would be wrong.

 

[bpo57]

You said that there was no way the 14 B1G teams were making 300 mil together, the number is actually higher than that per year. Sounded like you were pretty sure about that figure not being true and you would be wrong.

No they're not making $300 mil together. The new members are being phased in and not getting much dough for the first few years. Plus it's basketball AND football for the B1G and not just football. iAccording to TerryD, ND is getting $18 mil just for 7 homes games. My original point stands- ND has a very lucrative deal that would be hard to top by any conference.

 

[longtimefan]

if ND agreed to become a full member you go to 3 divisions of 5 unless texas or wvu or another p5 team came to us to join. 2 highest ranked division champs play for championship

Dump all divisions.

 

[longtimefan]

The NCAA still decides who can have a CCG and it isn't changing anytime soon. Maybe autonomy could change it but I doubt it seeing as how all the other conferences already have one. Do you think the other 4 conferences will just go.."...sure Big 12, you don't need a CCG, we all have one but all the power to ya!" Doubt it.

Bowlsby has already been proven to be a dolt...2 good deserving teams both sitting at home watching, good job!

It's great the NCAA has no control over the 4 team playoff, those clowns could screw up just about anything.

The idea is --the Big 12 could have a championship with only 10 teams if the NCAA modifies its regulations.

And, it's not 4 vs 1. The ACC joined the Big 12 in asking for the right to choose its own method for determining a champion.
The ACC might want to do away with its divisions, finding another method the determine the championship game participants.

The other 3 leagues might want the flexibility that the Big 12 and ACC are asking for. The B1G has had trouble arranging divisions (Leaders vs Legends? Powerful East vs. Wimpy West). The SEC has put up with grumbling because of the loss of some traditional rivalries.

 

[omniorange]

The idea is --the Big 12 could have a championship with only 10 teams if the NCAA modifies its regulations.

And, it's not 4 vs 1. The ACC joined the Big 12 in asking for the right to choose its own method for determining a champion.
The ACC might want to do away with its divisions, finding another method the determine the championship game participants.

The other 3 leagues might want the flexibility that the Big 12 and ACC are asking for. The B1G has had trouble arranging divisions (Leaders vs Legends? Powerful East vs. Wimpy West). The SEC has put up with grumbling because of the loss of some traditional rivalries.

I think the P5 might give on flexibility in terms of divisions, but I'm not sure the SEC, BiG, and PAC giving in on the 12 teams requirement.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Scooch]

I think the P5 might give on flexibility in terms of divisions, but I'm not sure the SEC, BiG, and PAC giving in on the 12 teams requirement. Cheers, Neil

Yeah, every other conference expanded beyond its comfort to get to that arbitrary 12 count for a champ game. I can see them telling the Big 12 to go pound salt if they want to try to get a champ game with 10.

But they might all want to dump the 2 division requirement.

 

[longtimefan]

I think the P5 might give on flexibility in terms of divisions, but I'm not sure the SEC, BiG, and PAC giving in on the 12 teams requirement.

Cheers,
Neil

Speaking for the ACC--we can live with that.

 

[SmilinBob]

Took at step back and been thinking about this. ND is in a precarious situation. The "committee" has some people that have opinions on the Irish and the range could be from a-z unlike most or any school. Is it possible they would try to make a statement to the Irish by omitting them if they were 11-1 to get them to join a conference much like what they did regarding the CCG? Would the possible TV dollars come into play so they say yes? I don't know if ND would get in over Ohio State with around the same resume except for a CCG but I'm almost positive they get in over TCU and Baylor. Boy, I would have loved to have seen Oklahoma, Texas, ND, Ohio State and Mississippi St all with 1 loss (Added to Bama/Oregon/FSU) instead...how fun would that have been for the committee/alumni/fans/pundits?

 

[CousCuse]

A 12-0 ND team would have a chance to get in, a 1 loss ND would , no.

 

[SmilinBob]

A 12-0 ND team would have a chance to get in, a 1 loss ND would , no.

The only absolute is ND being undefeated yes but regarding an 11-1 well again, it depends on who they are going against which is not an absolute.