Notre Dame...

[Hoo's That]

Does Navy invest as much money into their Olympic sports programs as the other ACC schools do?

They have been investing in their facilities. They are in good shape. They would be on the low end of the ACC as far as budget, but they have a unique situation where they don't have to provide athletic scholarships because all of the athletes are federally funded as midshipmen. They finished 90 in the Director's Cup last year. Georgia Tech finished 89 and Pittsburgh 85. Here is an article about Navy athletics.

http://www.usna.com/document.doc?id=129

The only downside I see is men's basketball due to military height restrictions. They would have to run a team kind of like Princeton used to with a smaller line up and try to compete that way. But ACC basketball would be tough to do that in.

One of the "more interesting" ideas being thrown around during the conference realignment fandango was a hybrid membership in the ACC and Patriot League for Navy and Georgetown. Navy would be #16 for ACC football (making ND happy under 3-6-6) and continue to play their Olympic sports in the Patriot League as they do now and Georgetown would continue to play D-1AA football in the Patriot League as they do now and play their Olympic sports in the ACC.

 

[Alsacs]

Teams will still play ND because of the benefit of playing them. USC is ND's biggest rival that game is going nowhere. Notre Dame will need to be 12-0 to make the playoffs unless they play and beat a bunch of good teams including a conference champion if they go 11-1.

 

[SmilinBob]

One of the "more interesting" ideas being thrown around during the conference realignment fandango was a hybrid membership in the ACC and Patriot League for Navy and Georgetown. Navy would be #16 for football (making ND happy under 3-6-6) and continue to play their Olympic sports in the Patriot League as they do now and Georgetown would continue to play D-1AA football in the Patriot League as they do now and play their Olympic sports in the ACC.

You just wrote the taboo name that should draw some fun reactions! I like that idea a lot myself but a lot of people want Georgetown to die a slow death.

 

[Alsacs]

I think the whole whether or not ND gets in at 11-1 discussion is very dependent upon who they are competing with for a slot. However, what will hurt ND's chances in those instances more could be a Big 12 championship game.

This year an 11-1 ND team who only lost to FSU likely doesn't get in because of Ohio State being 12-1. But had the Buckeyes lost, an 11-1 ND likely gets in over an 11-1 TCU or Baylor. However, if the Big 12 had a championship game where a rematch between Baylor and TCU decided its champion, would an 11-1 ND get in over a 12-1 Baylor or TCU?

Not sure, but regardless, ND is not going to panic just yet. They have time to see how future scenarios play out. They didn't lose their heads back in 2010 when conference realignment was at its peak, I don't see them losing their heads now after just one year's data set.

Cheers,
Neil

11-1 ND this year w/a L to FSU does not beat out Baylor or TCU this year. The committee has said style points and eye test are part of the elevation process. ND played a lot of close games. Beating Arizona State/Stanford/USC/Michigan wouldn't have done it unless they were better.

 

[Alsacs]

One of the "more interesting" ideas being thrown around during the conference realignment fandango was a hybrid membership in the ACC and Patriot League for Navy and Georgetown. Navy would be #16 for ACC football (making ND happy under 3-6-6) and continue to play their Olympic sports in the Patriot League as they do now and Georgetown would continue to play D-1AA football in the Patriot League as they do now and play their Olympic sports in the ACC.

Syracuse fans would love this. Gtown would be a conference game and we wouldn't have to waste an OOC slot on them, and it would give Maryland/B1G the finger.

 

[omniorange]

Teams will still play ND because of the benefit of playing them. USC is ND's biggest rival that game is going nowhere. Notre Dame will need to be 12-0 to make the playoffs unless they play and beat a bunch of good teams including a conference champion if they go 11-1.

Perhaps, but as I saw it, style points only mattered when SOS was considered equal. ND's SOS with wins over USC, Arizona State, and Louisville with a close loss to FSU I think might have been enough to get them in over an 11-1 Baylor, who finished ahead of TCU due to the head-to-head match-up. Of course the real reason would have been draw both in terms of ratings and fans in the seats.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[SmilinBob]

11-1 ND this year w/a L to FSU does not beat out Baylor or TCU this year. The committee has said style points and eye test are part of the elevation process. ND played a lot of close games. Beating Arizona State/Stanford/USC/Michigan wouldn't have done it unless they were better.

You can think that Alsac but history has shown that not to be true. Is it possible that ND would be bumped out by those two? Possible but I highly doubt it especially if you are adding viewers/tv to the equation.

 

[sabach]

Notre Dame is on notice they will need to be undefeated or have a bunch of quality wins as a 1 loss team.

No doubt they are on notice as to this. But the only way they give up independence is if they have no chance, (i.e. the committee says only conference champions get in). As long as there is a chance (12-0 or 11-1 with quality wins), I just don't see ND making that move to a conference.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I don't think Notre Dame cares.

I think they realize that they may have a title contender maybe once every 20 years, and they don't want to give up their independent schedule to be eligible for a playoff they may never take part in.

Like Terry said above: "The playoffs are a very rare occurrence. Independence is all of the time."

 

[omniorange]

I don't think Notre Dame cares.

I think they realize that they may have a title contender maybe once every 20 years, and they don't want to give up their independent schedule to be eligible for a playoff they may never take part in.

Like Terry said above: "The playoffs are a very rare occurrence. Independence is all of the time."

Independence was forever. Now they are semi-independent. But look how long they stayed indy. They could spend just as much time as semi-indy.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Toga]

ND going half in to the ACC was of clear benefit during the prior realignment and I believe added dollars to the ACC coffers. With conference realignment on hiatus for the foreseeable future (save possible B12 expansion not involving P% teams) - how important is it really that ND go all in since they are precluded from joining a different conference for over a decade? If they did go all in, it would almost certainly be with an agreement they could retain their NBC contract. Given that - what would the ACC or SU get from ND becoming a full conference member? Bragging rights? More $$?

 

[Jake]

Throughout all of college history an undefeated ND has always been #1 or played for a championship.

The rules have changed. Under the old system, there is no doubt that FSU is in the national championship game. Now not only are they not guaranteed to get there, the aren't even a top 2 seed. History has no relevance under the new system.

 

[sabach]

The rules have changed. Under the old system, there is no doubt that FSU is in the national championship game. Now not only are they not guaranteed to get there, the aren't even a top 2 seed. History has no relevance under the new system.

That is true. But the fact of the matter is that ND is not joining a conference because of the FB playoffs unless and until they go 12-0 and do not make it. I'm not saying that under the new rules that may not very well happen but that will be what it takes to make ND give up independence. IMO, nothing short of this or the Committee flat out saying that only conference champions can get in the playoff will make ND move.

 

[bpo57]

The rules have changed. Under the old system, there is no doubt that FSU is in the national championship game. Now not only are they not guaranteed to get there, the aren't even a top 2 seed. History has no relevance under the new system.

Fair point but thankfully they take four now and not two. An undefeated ND - with the schedule they play - would be a lock to get in the top 4 regardless of conference championships. Where it becomes a bit murkier is if they go 11-1. I still think if they are legitimately qualified they will be treated ok. Not many teams bring the fans and eyeballs like they do. At the end of the day that's what it is all about.

 

[SU2NASA]

Fair point but thankfully they take four now and not two. An undefeated ND - with the schedule they play - would be a lock to get in the top 4 regardless of conference championships. Where it becomes a bit murkier is if they go 11-1. I still think if they are legitimately qualified they will be treated ok. Not many teams bring the fans and eyeballs like they do. At the end of the day that's what it is all about.

An 11-1 ND vs. one loss teams from each of the power 5 conferences would be hard pressed to bounce two conference champions from the playoff.

 

[bpo57]

An 11-1 ND vs. one loss teams from each of the power 5 conferences would be hard pressed to bounce two conference champions from the playoff.

As I said before it depends who those conference champs are. If it's TCU, Baylor, Gtech, Ariz. etc. then the Irish can pack their bags. They're on their way to a playoff game.

 

[bpo57]

An 11-1 ND vs. one loss teams from each of the power 5 conferences would be hard pressed to bounce two conference champions from the playoff.

Btw not always going to happen that you have five P5 conference winners all with one loss. Upsets are going to happen.

 

[SU2NASA]

As I said before it depends who those conference champs are. If it's TCU, Baylor, Gtech, Ariz. etc. then the Irish can pack their bags. They're on their way to a playoff game.

And ND is willing to bank on the names of the teams they're up against? Again, they'd need two of them, and for those teams not to be undefeated.

 

[KaiserUEO]

An 11-1 ND vs. one loss teams from each of the power 5 conferences would be hard pressed to bounce two conference champions from the playoff.

they also should be hard pressed to bounce what once was a 12-0 team, who fell in that conf champ game.

now we are going to reward nd for not playing in 1, and penalize the team that had to?? nope.

they will get sent a message on this 1 day as well.

 

[SU2NASA]

Btw not always going to happen that you have five P5 conference winners all with one loss. Upsets are going to happen.

Well, we have five with no more than one loss this year. I was trying to be generous. I wouldn't say there are good odds that you'll have more than one with two losses.

 

[SU2NASA]

they also should be hard pressed to bounce what once was a 12-0 team, who fell in that conf champ game.

now we are going to reward nd for not playing in 1, and penalize the team that had to?? nope.

they will get sent a message on this 1 day as well.

I can't imagine the selection committee would want to piss off two conferences by putting a one-loss ND in ahead of their conference champions. ND is going to have to go undefeated or be SOL.

 

[longtimefan]

Btw not always going to happen that you have five P5 conference winners all with one loss. Upsets are going to happen.

If (when?) the Big XII institutes a championship game, an 11-1 ND would be hard-pressed to be chosen ahead of any 12-1 conference winner. I think playing one fewer game this year was held against TCU/Baylor.

 

[reedny]

Isn't ND on the bowl committee (the only college team to have a representative actually sitting on the committee, I believe)?

 

[KaiserUEO]

Isn't ND on the bowl committee (the only college team to have a representative actually sitting on the committee, I believe)?

Yes, Tyrone Willingham.

Wait...

A bunch of schools & confs have direct representation, including Luck of wv and the bevo.

But not nd.

 

[WickedOrange]

Btw not always going to happen that you have five P5 conference winners all with one loss. Upsets are going to happen.

People have very short memories (myself included), 2005 was the first time the ACC had its title game.

2014 One team with 0 or one loss.
2013 One team with 0 or one loss.
2012 No zero or one loss teams in final... (6-6 GT makes the final)
2010 No zero or one loss teams in final
2009 No zero or one loss teams in final
2008 No zero, one or two loss teams in final
2007 No zero or one loss teams in final
2006 No zero or one loss teams in final
2005 One team with zero or one loss... (a 7-4 FSU wins)

THAT is why Swofford wants an 8 team playoff.. IMO.

History suggests an 11-1 ND will have its shots at the "ACC's spot".

7 out of 9 years, most likely would have seen an 11-1 ND taken before the ACC Champ.

I wonder if the Pac 10 is similar.